Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus

[It’s so Joever]

We don’t know when Covid will improve.

When will it improve? It is now.

I mean yeah, compared to March 2020 it is improved.
Depends on your reference.
I should have worded that better, the implication is when Covid will “end” (subjective term)

[Del Tachi]

There's no evidence that Social Distancing and Mask Wearing have significantly minimized the death toll, or even the number of cases. 

There's no evidence because they were not actually enforced. No rule is going to work if you have half the population not following them--clearly someone in the 'law and order' segment of the population should know this. It's like having a road where everybody speeds, and then claiming going the speed limit is pointless as it doesn't prevent accidents.

While I don't believe masks should be mandated for the vaccinated at this point, the fact that people who are not vaccinated are not wearing them does not somehow refute decades and decades of proven evidence that masks do work at preventing individuals who wear them from spreading diseases.

This is a patent non-truth.  The scientific consensus prior to last summer was that universal public masking was not appropriate in response to respiratory pandemics because it had never been demonstrated as effective.  Mechanistic plausibility for face masks to control asymptomatic transmission of a respitory virus (i.e., filter efficiency) neglects to consider aspects of a mask's fit.   

[Schiff for Senate]

All COVID restrictions should be removed with the exception of vaccine mandates which should be strengthened. Of course, no one is doing that, and everyone just wants to double down on virtually useless masks.

COVID restrictions now have have one purpose only - keep anti vaxxers happy.

Forcing everyone to wear masks is hardly a big ask - it costs barely anything and takes absolutely no time to wear. Of course, vaccine mandates should be strengthened, but should be supplemented with mask mandates. There's evidence that delta goes through the doubly-vaccinated, which is why masks are a necessary tool to help stop the spread. Not saying they'll always stop COVID19 but will significantly reduce it, and at a cost of just 10 cents and 10 seconds of your time. It's not a big deal to ask people to wear masks. And no, the anti-vaxxers aren't the ones who favour COVID19 restrictions and mask mandates; it's sensible folks. The anti-vaxxers are also anti-mask and anti-restrictions. So, either you're against masks, vaccination, and restrictions, in favour of all three, or just inconsistent and fickle. Choose one of the three. Few choose the first option. I choose the second. It seems you choose the third.

We were promised earlier this year, by a multitude of figures-including Biden himself-that if we got vaccinated, we would no longer need to wear masks. Obviously,  the CDC's reversal of its mask-wearing recommendations, and the imposition of school mask mandates, demonstrates that this was not true. Nor is it true that wearing masks is a "minimal" intrusion.

Yes, it may be necessary (and in school environments, is necessary so long as the majority of students remain unvaccinated), but many people cannot stand masks, and they do have broad psychological and social impacts. They're not the most comfortable items to wear, either. I know this from experience, having to wear a mask for up to eight hours a day at my job.

How much longer do you think we should be wearing masks? Another year? Two years? Three years? There needs to be a point at which it is no longer necessary to do so.

Now is not that time, and I (and I think most people) would prefer that they and those around them wear masks and get vaccinated rather than possibly getting COVID19 and giving it to someone they love. I mean, wearing a mask isn't fun, but neither is this panemic, and masks very clearly decrease the likelihood of getting COVID19. Getting a possibly fatal disease is much worse than wearing an uncomfortable mask. I personally don't know how much longer masks will be required, or how long delta will spread to the doubly-vaccinated. The point is, it's not a major sacrifice to wear a mask, at least not if the alternative is possibly getting and spreading COVID19. I know firsthand about how bad it is to thinks masks are unnecessary once you're vaccinated. Some family members of mine got vaccinated, and went to a few large events vaccinated, believing it was safe. They tested positive for COVID19 shortly thereafter, about two weeks ago, though fortunately the symptons weren't that bad, and ultimately, four people in my family got it.

[pbrower2a]

There's no evidence that Social Distancing and Mask Wearing have significantly minimized the death toll, or even the number of cases. 

There's no evidence because they were not actually enforced. No rule is going to work if you have half the population not following them--clearly someone in the 'law and order' segment of the population should know this. It's like having a road where everybody speeds, and then claiming going the speed limit is pointless as it doesn't prevent accidents.

While I don't believe masks should be mandated for the vaccinated at this point, the fact that people who are not vaccinated are not wearing them does not somehow refute decades and decades of proven evidence that masks do work at preventing individuals who wear them from spreading diseases.

This is a patent non-truth.  The scientific consensus prior to last summer was that universal public masking was not appropriate in response to respiratory pandemics because it had never been demonstrated as effective.  Mechanistic plausibility for face masks to control asymptomatic transmission of a respiratory virus (i.e., filter efficiency) neglects to consider aspects of a mask's fit.   

Social distancing, sanitizing everything, wearing masks, and eschewing pointless travel were the best safety measures when no vaccine was yet available. Getting vaccinated solves a huge number of problems. I might be dead had it not been for inoculation, as I had some nightmarish side effects.

Nearly half of all Americans are duly inoculated, which means that we are in the quandary of "half full and half empty".  Except for very young children, practically nobody needs an excuse now.  I can imagine cities finding excuses to round up the homeless as Chicago does in extreme cold waves. If you aren't inoculated, you get inoculated. Even without that there are such misdemeanors as littering, public urination, and loitering that can be used as pretexts.

 

[Horus]

All COVID restrictions should be removed with the exception of vaccine mandates which should be strengthened. Of course, no one is doing that, and everyone just wants to double down on virtually useless masks.

COVID restrictions now have have one purpose only - keep anti vaxxers happy.

Forcing everyone to wear masks is hardly a big ask - it costs barely anything and takes absolutely no time to wear. Of course, vaccine mandates should be strengthened, but should be supplemented with mask mandates. There's evidence that delta goes through the doubly-vaccinated, which is why masks are a necessary tool to help stop the spread. Not saying they'll always stop COVID19 but will significantly reduce it, and at a cost of just 10 cents and 10 seconds of your time. It's not a big deal to ask people to wear masks. And no, the anti-vaxxers aren't the ones who favour COVID19 restrictions and mask mandates; it's sensible folks. The anti-vaxxers are also anti-mask and anti-restrictions. So, either you're against masks, vaccination, and restrictions, in favour of all three, or just inconsistent and fickle. Choose one of the three. Few choose the first option. I choose the second. It seems you choose the third.

We were promised earlier this year, by a multitude of figures-including Biden himself-that if we got vaccinated, we would no longer need to wear masks. Obviously,  the CDC's reversal of its mask-wearing recommendations, and the imposition of school mask mandates, demonstrates that this was not true. Nor is it true that wearing masks is a "minimal" intrusion.

Yes, it may be necessary (and in school environments, is necessary so long as the majority of students remain unvaccinated), but many people cannot stand masks, and they do have broad psychological and social impacts. They're not the most comfortable items to wear, either. I know this from experience, having to wear a mask for up to eight hours a day at my job.

How much longer do you think we should be wearing masks? Another year? Two years? Three years? There needs to be a point at which it is no longer necessary to do so.

Now is not that time, and I (and I think most people) would prefer that they and those around them wear masks and get vaccinated rather than possibly getting COVID19 and giving it to someone they love. I mean, wearing a mask isn't fun, but neither is this panemic, and masks very clearly decrease the likelihood of getting COVID19. Getting a possibly fatal disease is much worse than wearing an uncomfortable mask. I personally don't know how much longer masks will be required, or how long delta will spread to the doubly-vaccinated. The point is, it's not a major sacrifice to wear a mask, at least not if the alternative is possibly getting and spreading COVID19. I know firsthand about how bad it is to thinks masks are unnecessary once you're vaccinated. Some family members of mine got vaccinated, and went to a few large events vaccinated, believing it was safe. They tested positive for COVID19 shortly thereafter, about two weeks ago, though fortunately the symptons weren't that bad, and ultimately, four people in my family got it.

And that is the entire point of vaccines. Not to keep someone from ever getting COVID (because as transmissible as Delta is that's almost certainly impossible), but to keep symptoms minor enough that hospitalization is avoided. Masks aren't totally useless, but most of the time they are at best postponing the inevitable.

If the goal is to never get sick, these mandates will be around for at least a few more decades.

[Former President tack50]

My wife and I are fully vaccinated.  My 16 year old son is not; he has had COVID-19 and I am concerned with the possibility of him developing the side-effect of myocarditis.  Yes, I know that some of you here are terrified that he will get sick and spread the disease to one of you.  Right now, the chances of him getting myocarditis from the vaccine at his age are greater than him getting COVID-19, or one of its variants (and that's not even factoring in any natural immunity he may have).  You'll forgive me, but HIS life is the life I'm responsible for.  I've got an open mind on this issue, and I believe that most people ought to take the vaccine, but the idea that everyone needs to take this so Joe Biden can register a success in the Win Column of History is absurd. 

I will skip the rest of the post, but I will say that unless your son has some sort of pre-existing heart condition the vaccine is well worth it.

The source I can find that had the highest number for myocarditis cases had it at 162 cases per million; (or in other words: 0,0162%) and it seemed a bit of an outlier (most had it at around 1/10th of that)

Meanwhile, a healthy 16 year old boy with no preexisting conditions has if I am not mistaken somewhere around a 0.02% chance of death. That sounds well and good; well within the margin of error; except miocarditis is not a lethal condition while death obviously is.

The numbers clearly work out in favour of the vaccine even in the case of your son.

[Pericles]

I'm pretty sure the risk of myocarditis or other side-effects associated with the vaccine is actually greater with Covid.

[Schiff for Senate]

All COVID restrictions should be removed with the exception of vaccine mandates which should be strengthened. Of course, no one is doing that, and everyone just wants to double down on virtually useless masks.

COVID restrictions now have have one purpose only - keep anti vaxxers happy.

Forcing everyone to wear masks is hardly a big ask - it costs barely anything and takes absolutely no time to wear. Of course, vaccine mandates should be strengthened, but should be supplemented with mask mandates. There's evidence that delta goes through the doubly-vaccinated, which is why masks are a necessary tool to help stop the spread. Not saying they'll always stop COVID19 but will significantly reduce it, and at a cost of just 10 cents and 10 seconds of your time. It's not a big deal to ask people to wear masks. And no, the anti-vaxxers aren't the ones who favour COVID19 restrictions and mask mandates; it's sensible folks. The anti-vaxxers are also anti-mask and anti-restrictions. So, either you're against masks, vaccination, and restrictions, in favour of all three, or just inconsistent and fickle. Choose one of the three. Few choose the first option. I choose the second. It seems you choose the third.

We were promised earlier this year, by a multitude of figures-including Biden himself-that if we got vaccinated, we would no longer need to wear masks. Obviously,  the CDC's reversal of its mask-wearing recommendations, and the imposition of school mask mandates, demonstrates that this was not true. Nor is it true that wearing masks is a "minimal" intrusion.

Yes, it may be necessary (and in school environments, is necessary so long as the majority of students remain unvaccinated), but many people cannot stand masks, and they do have broad psychological and social impacts. They're not the most comfortable items to wear, either. I know this from experience, having to wear a mask for up to eight hours a day at my job.

How much longer do you think we should be wearing masks? Another year? Two years? Three years? There needs to be a point at which it is no longer necessary to do so.

Now is not that time, and I (and I think most people) would prefer that they and those around them wear masks and get vaccinated rather than possibly getting COVID19 and giving it to someone they love. I mean, wearing a mask isn't fun, but neither is this panemic, and masks very clearly decrease the likelihood of getting COVID19. Getting a possibly fatal disease is much worse than wearing an uncomfortable mask. I personally don't know how much longer masks will be required, or how long delta will spread to the doubly-vaccinated. The point is, it's not a major sacrifice to wear a mask, at least not if the alternative is possibly getting and spreading COVID19. I know firsthand about how bad it is to thinks masks are unnecessary once you're vaccinated. Some family members of mine got vaccinated, and went to a few large events vaccinated, believing it was safe. They tested positive for COVID19 shortly thereafter, about two weeks ago, though fortunately the symptons weren't that bad, and ultimately, four people in my family got it.

And that is the entire point of vaccines. Not to keep someone from ever getting COVID (because as transmissible as Delta is that's almost certainly impossible), but to keep symptoms minor enough that hospitalization is avoided. Masks aren't totally useless, but most of the time they are at best postponing the inevitable.

If the goal is to never get sick, these mandates will be around for at least a few more decades.

With masks, getting COVID19 in the first place could have been avoided. Yes, the symptoms turned out to be not that bad, but they were still bad, and yes, it was because of vaccination that the symptoms weren't as bad as they might have been.

But the first goal should be to avoid getting it in the first place, which can easily be done by wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Not saying that doing both will prohibitively prevent anyone from getting it, but it will remove almost any chance they get it and will ensure symptoms are mild.

It's not like wearing masks or getting vaccinated is much of an ask. In fact I'd say getting vaccinated is probably 'harder' since there is a day or so of side effects. Not at all saying don't get vaccinated but it's stupid to get vaccinated and then just skip the precaution of mask-wearing, when it's been proven time and time again to be effective.

No, the goal can't be to never get sick; the goal is to reduce cases as much as possible, which can be done by wearing masks and getting vaccinated.

(What is your aversion to mask wearing, anyway? I mean, I thought most sensible people, and you seem sensible to me, wouldn't have a problem wearing a slightly uncomfortable mask if it means they can significantly reduce the likelihood of getting an uncured infection that is possibly fatal, and then spreading it.)

[All Along The Watchtower]

I can’t help but laugh at all the crap I have been seeing on this seriously ridiculous bubble of 20-40 year old guys who feel super oppressed and want to victimize themselves as much as possible.

Many people cannot stand other things in life, and yet they do it because that is how life is. Same with masks. They don’t like it, well that’s honestly too bad. Unless it’s because of a sensory issue or some extremely severe breathing issue, then I have trouble giving a flip. As we speak, dozens of people have died of starvation and preventable disease. If we don’t care about that, why should we care that some angry Atlas user feels mildly uncomfortable? Let’s put this crap into perspective.

And just so Atlas knows I’m speaking from experience, our university has a mask mandate literally everywhere outside your room. Guess what? People do it and they do fine.
Heck, the majority of people outside are wearing them (even though the mandate obviously doesn’t apply there) Clearly not this horrible experience that I am hearing Atlas users moan about.
Now the exception I will give is when doing exercise/physically strenuous tasks. If your job requires a lot of that, I empathize a lot more, because that actually is uncomfortable (not the worst thing, but not fun.
Also mask type matters. If it’s just a surgical…well I can’t help but have trouble refraining from eye rolling. If you are complaining about that…bless you. If it’s a cloth, you’re just screwing yourself because those are more uncomfortable and less effective. If it’s a full N-95, yeah then you actually have experienced discomfort from masks.
Personally I wear a mask (a KN95, which almost is like a lighter N-95) literally everytime out of my dorm for convenience (I’m a forgetful person, I will not remember to put it on if I take it off) That can be anywhere from 30 minutes to 12 hours. Oh well. Still barely noticeable unless you are actively trying to notice it, and if that’s your biggest issue in life, that means you should be thankful.

As for when this will end, that’s the problem. That question is symbolic of everything wrong with our outlook. We don’t know when Covid will improve. I thought you people would be smart enough to understand this, but clearly that was too generous.
Unless you have a working crystal ball…we won’t know until is about to happen and that is the reality of life. I could give guesses, but if those are wrong I know they will be used against me anyways. Probably soon, but I can’t tell you all for sure. For all we know, the virus mutates and turns into a super deadly plague with high infectivity, a seven month incubation period, and a fifty percent death rate. That’s obviously extreme, but the point should be understood. You’re not going to get a precise answer because we are human. It’s astounding how we expect scientists to be gods and have all the answers, and yet won’t even listen to the advice they do have.

Anyways I don’t support mask mandates simply because they aren’t enforceable at this point, but I do see it as a moral issue. I would consider not wearing a mask to be a violation of ethics and morally akin to watching a murder in front of you and doing nothing about it. You don’t have to agree with my values, but that is how I see most of Atlas. The types of people who would rather watch a little girl get beat to death rather than inconvenience themselves by taking the time to call the police at the very least.

tl;dr

[All Along The Watchtower]

Also, I deeply resent the change in thread title. "Low-IQ MAGA supporters" - how old are you, 12?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Maybe we should just declare this an endemic and ask people to make their own decisions when dealing with it . There should be no more mask mandates

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

"Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus" was a much better title.

[PSOL]

So will 2 million deaths by 2024 be sufficient enough for people to realize the danger of this virus.

[It’s so Joever]

Also, I deeply resent the change in thread title. "Low-IQ MAGA supporters" - how old are you, 12?

Hey that wasn’t me. I would say a lot worse.

[jamestroll]

I was right all along.

Keeping common sense health measures non politicized while ensuring our economy and schools are open was always the right thing to do.

We should have never had anything but enforced social distancing and masking, especially early in the pandemic.

[jamestroll]

Perhaps the most disturbing development has been the slobbering over China's response to the pandemic, as if a lying, authoritarian government with no respect for human rights were in any way preferable to our own.

The stuff that I'm hearing on NPR, CNN and other media outlets is unbelievable. In a few years, we're going to look back on it with disbelief. The Chinese Communist Party is in the midst of a global propaganda campaign and they are acting as its mouthpiece.

To be clear: China's response to the pandemic is in no way an exemplar. Th.ey have not even been transparent enough to distinguish truth from fiction. Anyone telling you otherwise is at best an unwitting stooge.

By all means, order takeout from your local Chinese place and do what you can to silence any knee-jerk racism. But it shouldn't be hard to see what the larger threat is right now.

I agree

[Fuzzy Bear]

Perhaps the most disturbing development has been the slobbering over China's response to the pandemic, as if a lying, authoritarian government with no respect for human rights were in any way preferable to our own.

The stuff that I'm hearing on NPR, CNN and other media outlets is unbelievable. In a few years, we're going to look back on it with disbelief. The Chinese Communist Party is in the midst of a global propaganda campaign and they are acting as its mouthpiece.

To be clear: China's response to the pandemic is in no way an exemplar. Th.ey have not even been transparent enough to distinguish truth from fiction. Anyone telling you otherwise is at best an unwitting stooge.

By all means, order takeout from your local Chinese place and do what you can to silence any knee-jerk racism. But it shouldn't be hard to see what the larger threat is right now.

I agree

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Hate to say it, but all those people who said back in March 2020 that the rules were only temporary are looking like absolute fools right about now.

[Hammy]

Hate to say it, but all those people who said back in March 2020 that the rules were only temporary are looking like absolute fools right about now.

Do you mean the mask mandates that are not in any way enforced and most people ignore without consequences? Or the nonexistent lockdowns? Or the largely nonexistent and mostly unenforced vaccine passports? Or were you referring to the nonexistent bans on public gatherings? Do explain the March 2020 restrictions that are still ongoing.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Do you mean the mask mandates that are not in any way enforced and most people ignore without consequences?

I'm pretty sure schools still enforce these, and I read just a few days ago that there was a Toronto Raptors game where 14 fans were ejected for not wearing a mask.

[Green Line]

Hate to say it, but all those people who said back in March 2020 that the rules were only temporary are looking like absolute fools right about now.

Do you mean the mask mandates that are not in any way enforced and most people ignore without consequences? Or the nonexistent lockdowns? Or the largely nonexistent and mostly unenforced vaccine passports? Or were you referring to the nonexistent bans on public gatherings? Do explain the March 2020 restrictions that are still ongoing.

Obviously you live in a red state.  You have no clue, again, what you’re talking about or what its like in big blue cities.  You absolutely cannot enter an establishment without a mask and have to show vaccine passports.  You really need to educate yourself before you make these condescending responses.

[Roll Roons]

Hate to say it, but all those people who said back in March 2020 that the rules were only temporary are looking like absolute fools right about now.

Do you mean the mask mandates that are not in any way enforced and most people ignore without consequences? Or the nonexistent lockdowns? Or the largely nonexistent and mostly unenforced vaccine passports? Or were you referring to the nonexistent bans on public gatherings? Do explain the March 2020 restrictions that are still ongoing.

I also mean the universities that are going virtual despite there being absolutely no reason to.

You know, if a group of college students wanted to storm the Capitol in protest of campus restrictions, I'd totally sympathize with them. 

[Hammy]

Hate to say it, but all those people who said back in March 2020 that the rules were only temporary are looking like absolute fools right about now.

Do you mean the mask mandates that are not in any way enforced and most people ignore without consequences? Or the nonexistent lockdowns? Or the largely nonexistent and mostly unenforced vaccine passports? Or were you referring to the nonexistent bans on public gatherings? Do explain the March 2020 restrictions that are still ongoing.

Obviously you live in a red state.  You have no clue, again, what you’re talking about or what its like in big blue cities.  You absolutely cannot enter an establishment without a mask and have to show vaccine passports.  You really need to educate yourself before you make these condescending responses.

I was replying to someone who also lives in a red state so whatever clever point you think you made is irrelevant. I will agree that most of the remaining restrictions outside of vaccine mandates are going overboard and have been critical of them in other threads.