Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus
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Author Topic: Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus  (Read 15704 times)
It’s so Joever
Forumlurker161
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« Reply #375 on: August 23, 2021, 04:43:50 PM »

OSR clearly has no respect forward and order. He probably secretly sided with ANTIFA anarchists last year. If OSR ran this country, we would look like Minneapolis days after the Floyd protests and DC on January 6th.

Unlike OSR, I law and order in our society, and will not hesitate to advocate for punishing the anarchists like the rioters in Minneapolis, the rule breakers in Australia, or the Trumpsters who marched on the Capitol. LAW AND ORDER!
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #376 on: August 23, 2021, 04:46:37 PM »
« Edited: August 23, 2021, 04:51:35 PM by Resist Anarchy! »

This is OSRs America:







If Old School Communist and Greenline the Ghoulish had their ways, your families would see their houses burnt by anarchists, your grandparents would be in an unmarked grave in a sea of the dead, and your kids would be under constant risk of attack by armed mobs.

They want a Covid crisis on scale of those in India or Brazil. It will not be enough for their crusade against America until each and everyone gets infected, until society breaks down, and anarchy is the only thing left.
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OSR stands with Israel
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« Reply #377 on: August 23, 2021, 05:06:00 PM »

I never knew that Forumlurker is employed as a Stand Up Comedian
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #378 on: August 23, 2021, 06:55:51 PM »

Oh no! This thread is back!?

What kind of zombie are we dealing with here? A Romero zombie or a voodoo zombie? Because I want this thing dead for good!
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PSOL
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« Reply #379 on: August 23, 2021, 11:25:17 PM »




This is what Forumlurker wants the US to be like that
Far too lenient, he shouldn’t even have made it to the store without having being pressured along the way by some middle aged person to wear a mask or else threaten to call the police.

We need common sense to reign supreme here, the costs of getting sick additionally on the healthcare sector, especially on failing private employer-backed insurance, is going to add more pressure to the time bomb to a Fat Man instead of a mitigable low-impact burst.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #380 on: August 24, 2021, 07:43:38 AM »

Looking back at my old posts here I am happy to report nothing has aged too badly Smiley

I will in fact reiterate my very clear note that no Americans have experienced a "true lockdown" or anything even close to it. Australia certainly has though.
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CEO Mindset
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« Reply #381 on: August 24, 2021, 09:49:21 AM »

maybe we should have public health departments, maybe we shouldn't idk

but one thing's for sure if we do have them make sure they've got 0% of the same staff as are in existing health departments... as for current staff? prison time, with their cellmates all being selected to be people who turned to crime after losing jobs in 2020 bc of covid
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #382 on: September 25, 2021, 07:29:41 AM »

So I should just shut up and accept the hypocrisy and injustice?  Is that what you're saying?

No, but you shouldn't use it as justification for further high-risk activities that further endanger the public. Make sure you vote against or write to the politicians that have failed you, but do not advocate for spreading the virus with a mentality of "THEY got away with their misdeeds, so therefore other groups should get away with it too. It's only fair." That is a very dangerous attitude, which by the way goes against "law and order" and christian doctrines.

But, again:  There's no scorn from you for the protesters.

It wasn't necessary to protest as they did in the midst of a pandemic.  In the context of a pandemic as awful as you say it was, what has gone on in the streets has been, at best, narcissistic and self-absorbed virtue signaling.  At worst, it has been criminal arson, vandalism, etc.  And you have no condemnation for their behavior, pandemic-wise.
I actually have criticized protestors for not social distancing and not wearing masks, as well as condemned the rioters and looters generally for rioting and looting. Go check my posting history between the murder of George Floyd and about 2(ish) weeks after that. It's all there for you to see if you want to go read it.

I believe you have, but that's not good enough.  When you are asking people to risk their entire livelihoods by locking down while abortion clinics and pot dispensaries stay open, that's just not good enough.  It's you favoring who you agree with.
Counter-point: you were asking people to risk their entire family's lives by not locking down while the virus was in a critical stage of exponential growth.

The lockdowns were not to "save people's lives".  They were to "flatten the curve" to reduce the spread of COVID-19 so we wouldn't tank the healthcare system.  Not tanking the healthcare system is a noble goal, but authoritarian measures were made permanent long after the pressure on the healthcare system was alleviated. It wasn't about that. 

This disease is not the Bubonic Plague and it's beyond dishonest to preset it as if it were.  It's a flu pandemic. That's serious, and the Spanish and Hong Kong flu epidemics were serious events, but those events were not reason to turn the world upside down.  If elites in America had not been so desperate to make people miserable so they could motivate them to vote Trump out, most of the measures enacted would not have been.  Enough of the politics.  Trump is gone and you've gotten what you want.  The authoritarian responses need to end, period.



This just proves what i've been thinking: You literally think everything Democrats do is to persecute Trump.

There's ample evidence of exactly that.

The vaccines that Joe Biden wants to force on everyone, like them or not, were developed under the Presidency of Donald Trump.  During the election campaign, both Biden AND Harris voiced hesitancy toward the vaccines if Trump recommended them.  Now, they want to force it on people to take political heat off for their policies at the border that have resulted in huge numbers of COVID-19 positive people and unvaccinated people being allowed into the country and transported to different areas of the country without being required to be vaccinated (even as Biden would require this of you and I).  Think of it; the Two Stooges (Biden and Harris) that did the most in 2020 to encourage vaccine skepticism now wish to make the same vaccines mandatory for all, need it or not.

There's no evidence that Social Distancing and Mask Wearing have significantly minimized the death toll, or even the number of cases.  There's certainly no such evidence to show that kind of efficacy for lockdowns.  How much better were the COVID-19 rates for people confined to their homes versus "essential workers"?  If those rates weren't significantly better, than how can the impositions to ordinary freedoms be justified?

My wife and I are fully vaccinated.  My 16 year old son is not; he has had COVID-19 and I am concerned with the possibility of him developing the side-effect of myocarditis.  Yes, I know that some of you here are terrified that he will get sick and spread the disease to one of you.  Right now, the chances of him getting myocarditis from the vaccine at his age are greater than him getting COVID-19, or one of its variants (and that's not even factoring in any natural immunity he may have).  You'll forgive me, but HIS life is the life I'm responsible for.  I've got an open mind on this issue, and I believe that most people ought to take the vaccine, but the idea that everyone needs to take this so Joe Biden can register a success in the Win Column of History is absurd. 

The Left achieved key goals in Lockdowns.  They shut down churches (a core Republican constituency) but said not a word about SJWs demonstrating in the streets (a core Democratic constituency).  They have acquired levers of power to make impositions on businesses that they can use for purposes other than the COVID-19 pandemic.  Think they can't mandate CRT be made a part of every employee orientation in major businesses?  (Of course, some here like that idea; they either don't know what CRT is or do know and don't care about the rights of others.)  They will only have remorse when the Right regains power and uses those levers of power against THEM.  Yes, such power would likely be needed to reverse some of the damages to personal freedoms the Left has imposed, but I have little doubt that the Right would stop at mere "corrective action".  Power DOES corrupt.

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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #383 on: September 25, 2021, 09:14:15 AM »

I gotta say, I am genuinely sympathetic to Fuzzy’s concerns and frustrations. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I don’t doubt his sincerity and he brings up important points that liberals and leftists would be wise to take seriously. It’s much easier to demonize or caricature someone like him as a Trump-loving religious hypocrite (what self-professed religious person *isn’t* a hypocrite at some level? Not a convincing takedown) than to seriously engage with his concerns. Unfortunately too many on this forum are perfectly comfortable with merely doing the former. At best, it’s just intellectual laziness.
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Person Man
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« Reply #384 on: September 25, 2021, 09:23:42 AM »

I gotta say, I am genuinely sympathetic to Fuzzy’s concerns and frustrations. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I don’t doubt his sincerity and he brings up important points that liberals and leftists would be wise to take seriously. It’s much easier to demonize or caricature someone like him as a Trump-loving religious hypocrite (what self-professed religious person *isn’t* a hypocrite at some level? Not a convincing takedown) than to seriously engage with his concerns. Unfortunately too many on this forum are perfectly comfortable with merely doing the former. At best, it’s just intellectual laziness.

Except that he just cherry picks data to make him look like a victim. Everyone does that. You do that. I do that. It's just not adding anything to the conversation. The only way this ends is if the enough people get vaccinated and the risks of becoming vaccinated are at least, except in extreme cases, no worse than actually getting COVID. At this point, it just feels like dealing with people who are complaining that they can't get hammered on Friday Night because they don't have a designated driver or will never wear a seat belt because they believe that being thrown from their car will be safer than not being thrown from their car in an accident.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #385 on: September 25, 2021, 09:29:00 AM »

Also, my OP was and still is directed toward liberals in both the common American usage and the broadest philosophical sense. The pandemic is a world-historic crisis, yes, but it’s also a world-historic test of core liberal principles at a time when governments, corporations, public health authorities, and other powerful bureaucratic organizations are demanding unprecedented submission and sacrifice from ordinary people in the name of the common good.

At a time in which liberalism is under attack around the world from increasingly repressive autocracies, from both ostensible allies of the US like Saudi Arabia and Egypt to adversarial peer powers like Russia and (most frighteningly) China, to countries like Hungary and Turkey; to, as liberals will be the first to tell you, Donald Trump and the Republican Party in general and right-wing extremists in general at home, and yes, the more extreme elements among BLM, Antifa, and the emerging Far Left, you would think that liberals would be standing up for, well, liberalism.

If you’re willing to sacrifice your ostensible “liberal democratic values” to a bunch of unelected technocrats with authoritarian tendencies who are standing in for hapless and incompetent political “leaders”, then I question your level of commitment to either liberalism or democracy.
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Person Man
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« Reply #386 on: September 25, 2021, 09:54:10 AM »

Also, my OP was and still is directed toward liberals in both the common American usage and the broadest philosophical sense. The pandemic is a world-historic crisis, yes, but it’s also a world-historic test of core liberal principles at a time when governments, corporations, public health authorities, and other powerful bureaucratic organizations are demanding unprecedented submission and sacrifice from ordinary people in the name of the common good.

At a time in which liberalism is under attack around the world from increasingly repressive autocracies, from both ostensible allies of the US like Saudi Arabia and Egypt to adversarial peer powers like Russia and (most frighteningly) China, to countries like Hungary and Turkey; to, as liberals will be the first to tell you, Donald Trump and the Republican Party in general and right-wing extremists in general at home, and yes, the more extreme elements among BLM, Antifa, and the emerging Far Left, you would think that liberals would be standing up for, well, liberalism.

If you’re willing to sacrifice your ostensible “liberal democratic values” to a bunch of unelected technocrats with authoritarian tendencies who are standing in for hapless and incompetent political “leaders”, then I question your level of commitment to either liberalism or democracy.

And I thought the initial were lockdowns were dumb. They just weren't worth it and they were too difficult to enforce to be effective. Mask and vaccine mandates are reasonable approaches. It's a reasonable power for a government to have those powers when people want government guaranteed health indemnity and seat belt mandates.
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afleitch
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« Reply #387 on: September 25, 2021, 09:58:57 AM »

And I thought the initial were lockdowns were dumb. They just weren't worth it and they were too difficult to enforce to be effective. Mask and vaccine mandates are reasonable approaches. It's a reasonable power for a government to have those powers when people want government guaranteed health indemnity and seat belt mandates.

There was no vaccine during the first lockdown. And there has been nothing like the first lockdown since the vaccine rollout (except in Australia where they have been glacial with the rollout.)

It's clear that the first lockdowns were clearly the appropriate response and almost every democratic nation had the same iteration of them. Since then, there has been a lot of divergence in responses which can be praised or criticised.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #388 on: September 25, 2021, 10:06:51 AM »

This business of requiring daycare centers to put masks on 2-year-olds must end.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #389 on: September 25, 2021, 10:01:58 PM »

This business of requiring daycare centers to put masks on 2-year-olds must end.

Well, yes.  It won't until people rise up across the political spectrum, however.
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Hammy
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« Reply #390 on: September 25, 2021, 10:46:43 PM »
« Edited: September 25, 2021, 11:10:13 PM by Hammy »

There's no evidence that Social Distancing and Mask Wearing have significantly minimized the death toll, or even the number of cases.  


There's no evidence because they were not actually enforced. No rule is going to work if you have half the population not following them--clearly someone in the 'law and order' segment of the population should know this. It's like having a road where everybody speeds, and then claiming going the speed limit is pointless as it doesn't prevent accidents.

While I don't believe masks should be mandated for the vaccinated at this point, the fact that people who are not vaccinated are not wearing them does not somehow refute decades and decades of proven evidence that masks do work at preventing individuals who wear them from spreading diseases.

This business of requiring daycare centers to put masks on 2-year-olds must end.

It seems they prefer this to inconveniencing antivaxxers by requiring vaccines for staff.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #391 on: September 25, 2021, 11:41:00 PM »

This business of Bandit selectively looking for some stupid s**t to outrage about while ignoring the hordes of stupid anti-vaxxers and overloaded hospitals needs to stop.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #392 on: September 26, 2021, 07:13:53 AM »

This business of Bandit selectively looking for some stupid s**t to outrage about while ignoring the hordes of stupid anti-vaxxers and overloaded hospitals needs to stop.

If I supported anti-vaxxers, why did I get vaccinated?
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progressive85
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« Reply #393 on: September 26, 2021, 08:50:17 AM »

No people should ever, ever EVER be afraid of their government.

Inspired by their leaders, yes.  Encouraged to join and become a part of, absolutely.

Fear has no place in any democracy.  Fear is what the Little Green Guy said it was - the path to the dark side.

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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #394 on: September 26, 2021, 12:06:54 PM »

This business of Bandit selectively looking for some stupid s**t to outrage about while ignoring the hordes of stupid anti-vaxxers and overloaded hospitals needs to stop.

If I supported anti-vaxxers, why did I get vaccinated?
“Ignoring”.
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Horus
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« Reply #395 on: September 26, 2021, 12:20:03 PM »

All COVID restrictions should be removed with the exception of vaccine mandates which should be strengthened. Of course, no one is doing that, and everyone just wants to double down on virtually useless masks.

COVID restrictions now have have one purpose only - keep anti vaxxers happy.
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Schiff for Senate
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« Reply #396 on: September 26, 2021, 06:16:27 PM »

All COVID restrictions should be removed with the exception of vaccine mandates which should be strengthened. Of course, no one is doing that, and everyone just wants to double down on virtually useless masks.

COVID restrictions now have have one purpose only - keep anti vaxxers happy.

Forcing everyone to wear masks is hardly a big ask - it costs barely anything and takes absolutely no time to wear. Of course, vaccine mandates should be strengthened, but should be supplemented with mask mandates. There's evidence that delta goes through the doubly-vaccinated, which is why masks are a necessary tool to help stop the spread. Not saying they'll always stop COVID19 but will significantly reduce it, and at a cost of just 10 cents and 10 seconds of your time. It's not a big deal to ask people to wear masks. And no, the anti-vaxxers aren't the ones who favour COVID19 restrictions and mask mandates; it's sensible folks. The anti-vaxxers are also anti-mask and anti-restrictions. So, either you're against masks, vaccination, and restrictions, in favour of all three, or just inconsistent and fickle. Choose one of the three. Few choose the first option. I choose the second. It seems you choose the third.
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Calthrina950
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« Reply #397 on: September 26, 2021, 06:36:52 PM »
« Edited: September 26, 2021, 07:46:09 PM by Calthrina950 »

All COVID restrictions should be removed with the exception of vaccine mandates which should be strengthened. Of course, no one is doing that, and everyone just wants to double down on virtually useless masks.

COVID restrictions now have have one purpose only - keep anti vaxxers happy.

Forcing everyone to wear masks is hardly a big ask - it costs barely anything and takes absolutely no time to wear. Of course, vaccine mandates should be strengthened, but should be supplemented with mask mandates.
There's evidence that delta goes through the doubly-vaccinated, which is why masks are a necessary tool to help stop the spread. Not saying they'll always stop COVID19 but will significantly reduce it, and at a cost of just 10 cents and 10 seconds of your time. It's not a big deal to ask people to wear masks. And no, the anti-vaxxers aren't the ones who favour COVID19 restrictions and mask mandates; it's sensible folks. The anti-vaxxers are also anti-mask and anti-restrictions. So, either you're against masks, vaccination, and restrictions, in favour of all three, or just inconsistent and fickle. Choose one of the three. Few choose the first option. I choose the second. It seems you choose the third.

We were promised earlier this year, by a multitude of figures-including Biden himself-that if we got vaccinated, we would no longer need to wear masks. Obviously, the CDC's reversal of its mask-wearing recommendations, and the imposition of school mask mandates, demonstrates that this was not true. Nor is it true that wearing masks is a "minimal" intrusion.

Yes, it may be necessary (and in school environments, is necessary so long as the majority of students remain unvaccinated), but many people cannot stand masks, and they do have broad psychological and social impacts. They're not the most comfortable items to wear, either. I know this from experience, having to wear a mask for up to eight hours a day at my job.

How much longer do you think we should be wearing masks? Another year? Two years? Three years? There needs to be a point at which it is no longer necessary to do so.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #398 on: September 26, 2021, 07:18:47 PM »

I can’t help but laugh at all the crap I have been seeing on this seriously ridiculous bubble of 20-40 year old guys who feel super oppressed and want to victimize themselves as much as possible.

Many people cannot stand other things in life, and yet they do it because that is how life is. Same with masks. They don’t like it, well that’s honestly too bad. Unless it’s because of a sensory issue or some extremely severe breathing issue, then I have trouble giving a flip. As we speak, dozens of people have died of starvation and preventable disease. If we don’t care about that, why should we care that some angry Atlas user feels mildly uncomfortable? Let’s put this crap into perspective.

And just so Atlas knows I’m speaking from experience, our university has a mask mandate literally everywhere outside your room. Guess what? People do it and they do fine.
Heck, the majority of people outside are wearing them (even though the mandate obviously doesn’t apply there) Clearly not this horrible experience that I am hearing Atlas users moan about.
Now the exception I will give is when doing exercise/physically strenuous tasks. If your job requires a lot of that, I empathize a lot more, because that actually is uncomfortable (not the worst thing, but not fun.
Also mask type matters. If it’s just a surgical…well I can’t help but have trouble refraining from eye rolling. If you are complaining about that…bless you. If it’s a cloth, you’re just screwing yourself because those are more uncomfortable and less effective. If it’s a full N-95, yeah then you actually have experienced discomfort from masks.
Personally I wear a mask (a KN95, which almost is like a lighter N-95) literally everytime out of my dorm for convenience (I’m a forgetful person, I will not remember to put it on if I take it off) That can be anywhere from 30 minutes to 12 hours. Oh well. Still barely noticeable unless you are actively trying to notice it, and if that’s your biggest issue in life, that means you should be thankful.

As for when this will end, that’s the problem. That question is symbolic of everything wrong with our outlook. We don’t know when Covid will improve. I thought you people would be smart enough to understand this, but clearly that was too generous.
Unless you have a working crystal ball…we won’t know until is about to happen and that is the reality of life. I could give guesses, but if those are wrong I know they will be used against me anyways. Probably soon, but I can’t tell you all for sure. For all we know, the virus mutates and turns into a super deadly plague with high infectivity, a seven month incubation period, and a fifty percent death rate. That’s obviously extreme, but the point should be understood. You’re not going to get a precise answer because we are human. It’s astounding how we expect scientists to be gods and have all the answers, and yet won’t even listen to the advice they do have.

Anyways I don’t support mask mandates simply because they aren’t enforceable at this point, but I do see it as a moral issue. I would consider not wearing a mask to be a violation of ethics and morally akin to watching a murder in front of you and doing nothing about it. You don’t have to agree with my values, but that is how I see most of Atlas. The types of people who would rather watch a little girl get beat to death rather than inconvenience themselves by taking the time to call the police at the very least.



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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #399 on: September 26, 2021, 07:22:48 PM »


When will it improve? It is now.
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