Minor Party Primaries Results and Discussion

[Donerail]

Strongly doubt that the DSA will formally endorse either Hawkins or La Riva. The DSA takes endorsements seriously and wants them to mean something — no point in endorsing (which the DSA uses to mean putting financial and organizing resources behind a candidate, not just providing a stamp of approval) a third-party presidential candidate who's going to be mostly irrelevant.

[PSOL]

I think the DSA will either endorse Hawkins or not endorse at all. I don't think they'd endorse La Riva, she's an ML isn't she?

She’s apart of the most controversial orthodox Marxist-Leninist group in the United States, yes.

Strongly doubt that the DSA will formally endorse either Hawkins or La Riva. The DSA takes endorsements seriously and wants them to mean something — no point in endorsing (which the DSA uses to mean putting financial and organizing resources behind a candidate, not just providing a stamp of approval) a third-party presidential candidate who's going to be mostly irrelevant.

Read: they’re opportunists who want to keep getting on the gravy train of elected office. For all the talk of the PSL being a sectarian, insular organization or the Green Party being a mess of a party, the DSA manages to combine the worst attributes by remaining silent on Joe Biden while still claiming to one day break away.

You know what makes a candidate really irrelevant? It’s not having backup, and the fact that the Democratic Socialists of America won’t aide the only major independent democratic socialist running for president as part of a popular front puts them right where the now social democratic CPUSA are, either cowards, opportunists, plants, or odd sectarians who lack solidarity.

What’s worse is that given GPUS + SPUSA have around 250k and 1.5k members respectively along with 131 elected officials, how exactly then is the HH/ANW campaign irrelevant?

Now the PSL/LUP/PFP ticket I can see why it wouldn’t be endorsed by the DSA, given that the PSL are an orthodox ML and clannish party the likes of which match their predecessors. Working them on the ballot would make no sense given the possible blowback from the media and their own base. But HH/ANW has no excuse chief.

So now that we only have one more "major" third party nomination to go, any bets on who will be at the inevitable fringe third party presidential debate, and who will win that?

Hawkins vs. Jorgensen vs. Blankenship vs. de la Fuente

Probably who appeared at the last Free and Equal debate plus Max Abramson—so like Brian Carrol of the ASP and the Transhumanist party candidate.

[Donerail]

Strongly doubt that the DSA will formally endorse either Hawkins or La Riva. The DSA takes endorsements seriously and wants them to mean something — no point in endorsing (which the DSA uses to mean putting financial and organizing resources behind a candidate, not just providing a stamp of approval) a third-party presidential candidate who's going to be mostly irrelevant.

Read: they’re opportunists who want to keep getting on the gravy train of elected office.

Yes, the DSA is focused on winning local and state races while building a rank-and-file union movement. Not sure that either of those qualify as a "gravy train" (even in Chicago, being an alderman isn't what it once was). Also not sure how that makes them "opportunists."

You know what makes a candidate really irrelevant? It’s not having backup

I can think of lots of other things that make candidates irrelevant! You're using the phrase "popular front" like this is Europe in the 30s, but the conditions in America now are entirely different — there is no major left-wing campaign in this election and no hope of building one. Whether a "popular front" includes five or seven fairly minor groups will not impact that outcome.

and the fact that the Democratic Socialists of America won’t aide the only major independent democratic socialist running for president as part of a popular front puts them right where the now social democratic CPUSA are, either cowards, opportunists, plants, or odd sectarians who lack solidarity.

Who would that be? I certainly haven't heard of any major candidates running for president to the left of one Joe Biden.

What’s worse is that given GPUS + SPUSA have around 250k and 1.5k members respectively along with 131 elected officials, how exactly then is the HH/ANW campaign irrelevant?

Congratulations, you have a handful of school board members and a strong chance of getting as many votes as that McMuffin guy in 2016.

The goal is to pick fights you have a chance of winning. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but the DSA's accomplished more in the last few years than decades of quixotic presidential campaigns. Don't blame people because they won't fight your losing battles.

[AltWorlder]

So now that we only have one more "major" third party nomination to go, any bets on who will be at the inevitable fringe third party presidential debate, and who will win that?

Hawkins vs. Jorgensen vs. Blankenship vs. de la Fuente

Probably who appeared at the last Free and Equal debate plus Max Abramson—so like Brian Carrol of the ASP and the Transhumanist party candidate.

La Riva was present in the 2016 debate, forgot to mention to her. I think adding the ASP and the Transhumanists would dovetail nicely with my idea of how U.S. third parties "oughta" consolidate, but I don't know why they would get invited over any other randos like uhhh Mark Charles or J.R. Myers. I'm not sure if Free and Equal sends invites based on actual polling (which is pretty much impossible given how fringe third party candidates are), or ideological "balance", or just whomever has a website and seems willing to show up.

[PSOL]

Strongly doubt that the DSA will formally endorse either Hawkins or La Riva. The DSA takes endorsements seriously and wants them to mean something — no point in endorsing (which the DSA uses to mean putting financial and organizing resources behind a candidate, not just providing a stamp of approval) a third-party presidential candidate who's going to be mostly irrelevant.

Read: they’re opportunists who want to keep getting on the gravy train of elected office.

Yes, the DSA is focused on winning local and state races while building a rank-and-file union movement. Not sure that either of those qualify as a "gravy train" (even in Chicago, being an alderman isn't what it once was). Also not sure how that makes them "opportunists."

It means still allowing the Democratic Party to be passive in allowing DSA candidates to run in safe districts without much trouble. It also means being able to participate in AFL-CIO union elections without much trouble as well from the upper echelons as long as they stay loyal. The DSA from the looks of it seems unwilling to do anything more then act as an entryist pressure group inside the Democratic Party.

I can think of lots of other things that make candidates irrelevant! You're using the phrase "popular front" like this is Europe in the 30s, but the conditions in America now are entirely different — there is no major left-wing campaign in this election and no hope of building one. Whether a "popular front" includes five or seven fairly minor groups will not impact that outcome.

I’m aware of the current conditions in the United States isn’t ready for a mass Left party, certainly one independent of the Democratic Party. However, not building such a movement now is inane given that time and time again, siding with the Democratic Party or “establishment” across the Anglophone world is killer to any social movement. They’re just going to chew the DSA up and keep the organization as limited to a few pockets as possible.

Who would that be? I certainly haven't heard of any major candidates running for president to the left of one Joe Biden.

I’m speaking comparatively of the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity and PSL/PFP/LUP poles this election, the independent “major” third party tickets. You’ve heard of them.

Congratulations, you have a handful of school board members and a strong chance of getting as many votes as that McMuffin guy in 2016.

lol, like the DSA is somehow radically more relevant. The Green Party at least recently got the Democratic Party to adopt the ripped-off GND, what national legislation has the DSA put forth?

The goal is to pick fights you have a chance of winning. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but the DSA's accomplished more in the last few years than decades of quixotic presidential campaigns. Don't blame people because they won't fight your losing battles.

Don’t blame anyone but this line of thinking when the solidly liberal Democratic Party kicks y’all to the curb when they don’t see a need for your kind anymore as a faction limited to safe districts to show the Democratic Party is a “big tent” and is “fair”. At some point, they’ll throw the DSA away like a wet noodle and close the gates for anything that whiffs of social democratic ideals with a spine, or anyone that may assert themselves that isn’t part of the ruling clique.

[PSOL]

So now that we only have one more "major" third party nomination to go, any bets on who will be at the inevitable fringe third party presidential debate, and who will win that?

Hawkins vs. Jorgensen vs. Blankenship vs. de la Fuente

Probably who appeared at the last Free and Equal debate plus Max Abramson—so like Brian Carrol of the ASP and the Transhumanist party candidate.

La Riva was present in the 2016 debate, forgot to mention to her. I think adding the ASP and the Transhumanists would dovetail nicely with my idea of how U.S. third parties "oughta" consolidate, but I don't know why they would get invited over any other randos like uhhh Mark Charles or J.R. Myers. I'm not sure if Free and Equal sends invites based on actual polling (which is pretty much impossible given how fringe third party candidates are), or ideological "balance", or just whomever has a website and seems willing to show up.

You’re missing what will happen to Trotskyists and Green Liberals in the linked post, otherwise I totally agree with you.

[AltWorlder]

Oh, I assume that even in the magical world where third parties were smart and banded together instead of splitting into a billion powerless Facebook groups, there would still be minor parties beyond the ones I outlined. There would still be a ton of minuscule far leftist groups like various Trot parties who are unwilling to join the fold of La Riva thought. Idk who Green Liberals are though, I assume they'd be fine as one of the more centrist/right-wing subgroups of the Social Democrats.

[Donerail]

I can think of lots of other things that make candidates irrelevant! You're using the phrase "popular front" like this is Europe in the 30s, but the conditions in America now are entirely different — there is no major left-wing campaign in this election and no hope of building one. Whether a "popular front" includes five or seven fairly minor groups will not impact that outcome.

I’m aware of the current conditions in the United States isn’t ready for a mass Left party, certainly one independent of the Democratic Party. However, not building such a movement now is inane given that time and time again, siding with the Democratic Party or “establishment” across the Anglophone world is killer to any social movement. They’re just going to chew the DSA up and keep the organization as limited to a few pockets as possible.

As opposed to the relevance of the Green Party?

Who would that be? I certainly haven't heard of any major candidates running for president to the left of one Joe Biden.

I’m speaking comparatively of the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity and PSL/PFP/LUP poles this election, the independent “major” third party tickets. You’ve heard of them.

I've heard of those "major" candidates! Certainly not major candidates.

Congratulations, you have a handful of school board members and a strong chance of getting as many votes as that McMuffin guy in 2016.

lol, like the DSA is somehow radically more relevant. The Green Party at least recently got the Democratic Party to adopt the ripped-off GND, what national legislation has the DSA put forth?

That'd be the DSA's doing, thank you Introduced by a DSA congressman (those exist!).

The goal is to pick fights you have a chance of winning. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but the DSA's accomplished more in the last few years than decades of quixotic presidential campaigns. Don't blame people because they won't fight your losing battles.

Don’t blame anyone but this line of thinking when the solidly liberal Democratic Party kicks y’all to the curb when they don’t see a need for your kind anymore as a faction limited to safe districts to show the Democratic Party is a “big tent” and is “fair”. At some point, they’ll throw the DSA away like a wet noodle and close the gates for anything that whiffs of social democratic ideals with a spine, or anyone that may assert themselves that isn’t part of the ruling clique.

Have fun organizing in the wilderness.

[PSOL]

1 & 2. Ayyy lmaoo bruh

3. I’m aware that AOC introduced it as something that looked good from inspiration of the Green Party plan cooked up in the 80s and in Dr. Jill Stein’s platform in 2016. I’m happy it’s in Congress, but let’s not kid ourselves where the inspiration of the introduced, cut down model came from

4. The Dems are going to shrivel the DSA and anything radical in it quite soon if they haven’t already. Maybe they’ll keep the husk around or throw it away in time when they’re able to, but it will happen as history both in the far and recent past has shown.

It’s concerning to see an organization so decentralized yet growing, yet so clannish to the wider left like the DSA. If you can’t see the problem in not having solidarity with other groups outside of the Democratic Party and “Established” opposition, well, that’s your problem.

Oh yeah, and when the time is right, austerity and deregulation will be reintroduced getting rid of all the progress the DSA did as a byproduct.

Edit: you know, I wouldn’t really even bring this up if the DSA worked with other democratic socialist or social democratic organizations like, say, the GPUS/Solidarity/SPUSA electoral pole. The fact that they’re not, and the very closely aligned publication Jacobin doesn’t mention anyone else, reminds me awfully a lot like the co-opted Working Families Party who became Andrew Cuomo’s b••••.

[Donerail]

You seem furious that not every left-wing organization embraces the theory that the only way to build a movement is by running futile presidential campaigns. Perhaps if that strategy had any success to show for it, you would be able to make a more persuasive case. Unfortunately...

[PSOL]

You seem furious that not every left-wing organization embraces the theory that the only way to build a movement is by running futile presidential campaigns. Perhaps if that strategy had any success to show for it, you would be able to make a more persuasive case. Unfortunately...

lol, in no way was I suggesting that. I just find it very bad that the DSA has no solidarity.

It’s actually going to be kinda depressing seeing the DSA go the way of the Working Families Party in that they became undeniable b••••es to the neoliberal establishment, but it won’t come out of the blue, and sticking your head in the sand and going lalalala ain’t changing reality bruh.

Perhaps the most telling thing is that the most arch-defender of the status quo, BRTD, recommended your post. That’s a sign I’m in the right, among other more concrete examples.

[Donerail]

You seem furious that not every left-wing organization embraces the theory that the only way to build a movement is by running futile presidential campaigns. Perhaps if that strategy had any success to show for it, you would be able to make a more persuasive case. Unfortunately...

lol, in no way was I suggesting that. I just find it very bad that the DSA has no solidarity.

"Solidarity" should mean something more than endorsing a no-hope presidential campaign.

[StateBoiler]

Reform Party National Convention on June 13th with their Florida and Mississippi ballot access up for grabs.

[StateBoiler]

Liberty Union Party Nominates Gloria La Riva for President

The La Riva-Peltier ticket now has access to the ballots in California and Vermont.

This is ultimately a bad sign for Howie Hawkins. Not only will the vote be split in two states where there is a huge population of democratic socialists and other leftists willing to vote for him, but he has failed in forming an “independent, nonsectarian left” front. The only question is why, why did two clearly democratic socialist parties choose the PSL’s Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket over a person influenced by communalist ideology?

Looks like the vote of the left is going to be very much split between the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity front, PSL/LUP/PFP front, the Socialist Action party, and the irrelevant cult of the SEP so far. That isn’t accounting for what the DSA will do as a backup plan later in the race, or if SAlt runs their own candidate.

Gloria La Riva on the Vermont Liberty Union Party ballot line in 2016 got 327 votes. By the standards of 3rd party electoral performance, that's bad. The Party for Socialism & Liberation owes its performance to the outsize influence of gaining the California Peace & Freedom Party ballot line which I think was about 86% of their total nationwide vote in 2016. The harm if any to Hawkins was done there. Remove the P&F ballot line, PSL was about on par with the Socialist Workers Party.

[PSOL]

Liberty Union Party Nominates Gloria La Riva for President

The La Riva-Peltier ticket now has access to the ballots in California and Vermont.

This is ultimately a bad sign for Howie Hawkins. Not only will the vote be split in two states where there is a huge population of democratic socialists and other leftists willing to vote for him, but he has failed in forming an “independent, nonsectarian left” front. The only question is why, why did two clearly democratic socialist parties choose the PSL’s Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket over a person influenced by communalist ideology?

Looks like the vote of the left is going to be very much split between the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity front, PSL/LUP/PFP front, the Socialist Action party, and the irrelevant cult of the SEP so far. That isn’t accounting for what the DSA will do as a backup plan later in the race, or if SAlt runs their own candidate.

Gloria La Riva on the Vermont Liberty Union Party ballot line in 2016 got 327 votes. By the standards of 3rd party electoral performance, that's bad. The Party for Socialism & Liberation owes its performance to the outsize influence of gaining the California Peace & Freedom Party ballot line which I think was about 86% of their total nationwide vote in 2016. The harm if any to Hawkins was done there. Remove the P&F ballot line, PSL was about on par with the Socialist Workers Party.

Yeesh, then the honest question one has to ask is why the Peace and Freedom Party or the LUP even let the PSL be on their ballots? Why not run alone, or join up like the two parties once were in the past? I guess the PSL and Leonard Peltier have a unique relationship with both parties, that’s the only reason I can see for why this keeps on happening.

[sparkey]

Reform Party National Convention on June 13th with their Florida and Mississippi ballot access up for grabs.

De La Fuente should be the favorite for this this, no? I understand the FL state party endorsed him. LP defector Abramson is the only serious competitor I know of.

[Continential]

The Green Party has a bunch of radicals outside of the mainstream which shouldn't be in the mainstream, (faith healers, extreme 9/11 truthers (bush did 9/11), etc.).

[sparkey]

Juicy Reform Party drama apparently exists (don't miss the comment section): https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2020/05/chairman-joe-wendt-threatens-to-dissolve-reform-party-of-florida-if-de-la-fuente-is-not-nominated-for-president/

[AltWorlder]

Speaking of Rocky, is he and the Alliance Party okay? The Twitter accounts of both haven't posted in nearly two weeks, which is weird because he's usually so verbose online, and a quarantine is a time period where social media buzz actually has more real-world impact. It's like they had their virtual nomination and then lost all momentum.

[catographer]

This may be a rude/offensive question, but are no-hope perennial candidates “all there?” People like De La Fuente, who keep running over and over again and always lose or other candidates who know they will get no where. Are they just too narcissistic/egotistic to check themselves? Or are they literally delusional?

[walleye26]

I saw Jorgensen’s running mate is Spike Cohen, and apparently there’s some drama because that’s not who she wanted? Who did she want, and who’s Spike?

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

This may be a rude/offensive question, but are no-hope perennial candidates “all there?” People like De La Fuente, who keep running over and over again and always lose or other candidates who know they will get no where. Are they just too narcissistic/egotistic to check themselves? Or are they literally delusional?

There’s definitely some people that want to push an issue, but in a lot of cases, I think they’re just nuts.

[Continential]

I saw Jorgensen’s running mate is Spike Cohen, and apparently there’s some drama because that’s not who she wanted? Who did she want, and who’s Spike?

I presume that she wanted Monds over Spike Cohen because any sane person would want Monds over Cohen

[The Mikado]

I saw Jorgensen’s running mate is Spike Cohen, and apparently there’s some drama because that’s not who she wanted? Who did she want, and who’s Spike?

This is Spike Cohen.

Spike Cohen was born Jeremy Cohen at an extremely young age in 1982.  At the age of 3, Jeremy went to the theater with his family to watch the My Little Pony movie.  After witnessing the heroism and bravery of Spike the purple dragon, he informed his family that Jeremy was in fact dead, and he was now Spike.  This bit of information proved to be a strong indicator of how Spike would conduct himself for the rest of his life.

At the age of 16, Spike was informed that he couldn’t simply do drugs his entire life, and that he either needed to start a career or go to university.  Spike decided to learn how to do web design, and within a couple of years he had a successful business. Spike credits the lack of occupational licensing requirements for his ability to go into business with minimal barrier to entry.

This is what Spike is about.

[catographer]

That’s what I’m talking about. Do Libertarians even want to be taken seriously when they have candidates like Supreme and Cohen? Cuz nobody is gonna take them seriously with them. Enjoy your 0.5% of the popular vote LP.