ID/MI-Data for Progress: Biden +4 in ID, Biden +21 in MI

[SevenEleven]

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

Is it not a bit unfair to not even give the guy a shot to accommodate progressives? We still have no idea how he approaches this section of the base come November.

Did you not see the Axios article from today?

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

So you'd rather have fascists than center-left Dems. Got it.

And don't kid yourself, the Libertarians and Greens will never win a state in this system.

Democrats are winning VA no matter what.  I can vote however I want.

Yeah, you can probably get away with voting how you want because more mature people will make up for your deficiencies.  Is that really a way to live life though?  Intentionally doing stupid things and hoping other people can compensate for your failings?  What happens when there is no one there to compensate?  That was 2016 and we got Trump for president, because 700,000 special snowflakes voted for Jill Stein in MI/WI/PA thinking Clinton would win their state no matter what.

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

What was the condescending part? Was it the part where you said you wouldn't vote for someone because you were worried that a candidate wouldn't accomodate you? Why would Biden bother with people who aren't going to vote for him?

Biden was Obama's go-to guy for working with McConnell for eight years, like when senators in both parties voted to end Sanders' talking filibuster during the 2010 lame duck to extend the Bush tax cuts.  Both Obama and Biden were very open to accommodating people who would never support or work with them on anything.  That was despite getting elected with a mandate just two years before.

Looks like Biden is coming back to the fold with another mandate, in that case.

But seriously, criticizing a VP for working on behalf of his President and country is tactless. Being insubordinate, ineffective, or actively working against the administration would not have been a good look for Biden.

You do not work with people like Mitch McConnell.  Period.

Obama takes full responsibility for his failures, too, be it cutting food stamps, trying to cut Social Security, or lying to the country for four years about keeping your insurance.

Right, as Obama should. It was his administration. If you think Joe Biden took any sort of agency in his work as VP, you need to do more reading about his and Barack's relationship.

You must love a nice government shut down.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

It's not my job to get you to vote for Biden.  You just want to spend the next 8 months telling everyone we need to "convince you" to do your basic civic responsibility.  I'm not going to indulge you.

It's not our job to tell you to wash your hands or eat your vegetables either.  These are basic things that all decent, normal people ought to do.  The 55.7% voting rate in this country is like the obesity epidemic.  Just a bunch of people refusing to do the most basic possible thing to make their lives better despite being bombarded left and right for an entire year with messaging begging them to vote.  If you want to be part of it, go on ahead.  All you've achieved is earning universal contempt and helping Trump get re-elected.

Okay.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

Is it not a bit unfair to not even give the guy a shot to accommodate progressives? We still have no idea how he approaches this section of the base come November.

Did you not see the Axios article from today?

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

So you'd rather have fascists than center-left Dems. Got it.

And don't kid yourself, the Libertarians and Greens will never win a state in this system.

Democrats are winning VA no matter what.  I can vote however I want.

Yeah, you can probably get away with voting how you want because more mature people will make up for your deficiencies.  Is that really a way to live life though?  Intentionally doing stupid things and hoping other people can compensate for your failings?  What happens when there is no one there to compensate?  That was 2016 and we got Trump for president, because 700,000 special snowflakes voted for Jill Stein in MI/WI/PA thinking Clinton would win their state no matter what.

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

What was the condescending part? Was it the part where you said you wouldn't vote for someone because you were worried that a candidate wouldn't accomodate you? Why would Biden bother with people who aren't going to vote for him?

Biden was Obama's go-to guy for working with McConnell for eight years, like when senators in both parties voted to end Sanders' talking filibuster during the 2010 lame duck to extend the Bush tax cuts.  Both Obama and Biden were very open to accommodating people who would never support or work with them on anything.  That was despite getting elected with a mandate just two years before.

Looks like Biden is coming back to the fold with another mandate, in that case.

But seriously, criticizing a VP for working on behalf of his President and country is tactless. Being insubordinate, ineffective, or actively working against the administration would not have been a good look for Biden.

You do not work with people like Mitch McConnell.  Period.

Obama takes full responsibility for his failures, too, be it cutting food stamps, trying to cut Social Security, or lying to the country for four years about keeping your insurance.

Right, as Obama should. It was his administration. If you think Joe Biden took any sort of agency in his work as VP, you need to do more reading about his and Barack's relationship.

You must love a nice government shut down.

You can be an effective Vice President on your own.  Just ask Dick Cheney, who Biden likes.

[Bidenworth2020]

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

It's not my job to get you to vote for Biden.  You just want to spend the next 8 months telling everyone we need to "convince you" to do your basic civic responsibility.  I'm not going to indulge you.

It's not our job to tell you to wash your hands or eat your vegetables either.  These are basic things that all decent, normal people ought to do.  The 55.7% voting rate in this country is like the obesity epidemic.  Just a bunch of people refusing to do the most basic possible thing to make their lives better despite being bombarded left and right for an entire year with messaging begging them to vote.  If you want to be part of it, go on ahead.  All you've achieved is earning universal contempt and helping Trump get re-elected.

Okay.

I will admit GM's response is a bit dickish, but in all seriousness-- don't go all-in on Hawkins before you see what Biden does to unite the party. If he makes an effort by picking someone like Baldwin as VP, I think that he deserves some credit in trying to unite the party.

[SevenEleven]

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

Is it not a bit unfair to not even give the guy a shot to accommodate progressives? We still have no idea how he approaches this section of the base come November.

Did you not see the Axios article from today?

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

So you'd rather have fascists than center-left Dems. Got it.

And don't kid yourself, the Libertarians and Greens will never win a state in this system.

Democrats are winning VA no matter what.  I can vote however I want.

Yeah, you can probably get away with voting how you want because more mature people will make up for your deficiencies.  Is that really a way to live life though?  Intentionally doing stupid things and hoping other people can compensate for your failings?  What happens when there is no one there to compensate?  That was 2016 and we got Trump for president, because 700,000 special snowflakes voted for Jill Stein in MI/WI/PA thinking Clinton would win their state no matter what.

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

What was the condescending part? Was it the part where you said you wouldn't vote for someone because you were worried that a candidate wouldn't accomodate you? Why would Biden bother with people who aren't going to vote for him?

Biden was Obama's go-to guy for working with McConnell for eight years, like when senators in both parties voted to end Sanders' talking filibuster during the 2010 lame duck to extend the Bush tax cuts.  Both Obama and Biden were very open to accommodating people who would never support or work with them on anything.  That was despite getting elected with a mandate just two years before.

Looks like Biden is coming back to the fold with another mandate, in that case.

But seriously, criticizing a VP for working on behalf of his President and country is tactless. Being insubordinate, ineffective, or actively working against the administration would not have been a good look for Biden.

You do not work with people like Mitch McConnell.  Period.

Obama takes full responsibility for his failures, too, be it cutting food stamps, trying to cut Social Security, or lying to the country for four years about keeping your insurance.

Right, as Obama should. It was his administration. If you think Joe Biden took any sort of agency in his work as VP, you need to do more reading about his and Barack's relationship.

You must love a nice government shut down.

You can be an effective Vice President on your own.  Just ask Dick Cheney, who Biden likes.

When has Joe Biden ever said he didn't like someone?

[It’s so Joever]

Guys don’t get excited/sad too early, polls have been off in several states this season.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

It's not my job to get you to vote for Biden.  You just want to spend the next 8 months telling everyone we need to "convince you" to do your basic civic responsibility.  I'm not going to indulge you.

It's not our job to tell you to wash your hands or eat your vegetables either.  These are basic things that all decent, normal people ought to do.  The 55.7% voting rate in this country is like the obesity epidemic.  Just a bunch of people refusing to do the most basic possible thing to make their lives better despite being bombarded left and right for an entire year with messaging begging them to vote.  If you want to be part of it, go on ahead.  All you've achieved is earning universal contempt and helping Trump get re-elected.

Okay.

I will admit GM's response is a bit dickish, but in all seriousness-- don't go all-in on Hawkins before you see what Biden does to unite the party. If he makes an effort by picking someone like Baldwin as VP, I think that he deserves some credit in trying to unite the party.

I'll give Biden himself a chance to convince me that his would-be cabinet would not resemble anything like the Axios article said it would.  Picking Baldwin (though I think that would be a long-term strategic error for other reasons) would be a good way to go about that.  If he picks her or Warren or Castro as his VP, I will reconsider.

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

Is it not a bit unfair to not even give the guy a shot to accommodate progressives? We still have no idea how he approaches this section of the base come November.

Did you not see the Axios article from today?

My biggest concern now isn't even Sanders losing, its Sanders losing so badly that Biden won't feel pressured to accommodate progressives into his tent.  If he wins the GE, then the only people who will be at the negotiating table will be him, his cabinet of centrist hacks and bankers, and McConnell.

F#ck it.  I'm just gonna vote Hawkins in November.

So you'd rather have fascists than center-left Dems. Got it.

And don't kid yourself, the Libertarians and Greens will never win a state in this system.

Democrats are winning VA no matter what.  I can vote however I want.

Yeah, you can probably get away with voting how you want because more mature people will make up for your deficiencies.  Is that really a way to live life though?  Intentionally doing stupid things and hoping other people can compensate for your failings?  What happens when there is no one there to compensate?  That was 2016 and we got Trump for president, because 700,000 special snowflakes voted for Jill Stein in MI/WI/PA thinking Clinton would win their state no matter what.

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

What was the condescending part? Was it the part where you said you wouldn't vote for someone because you were worried that a candidate wouldn't accomodate you? Why would Biden bother with people who aren't going to vote for him?

Biden was Obama's go-to guy for working with McConnell for eight years, like when senators in both parties voted to end Sanders' talking filibuster during the 2010 lame duck to extend the Bush tax cuts.  Both Obama and Biden were very open to accommodating people who would never support or work with them on anything.  That was despite getting elected with a mandate just two years before.

Looks like Biden is coming back to the fold with another mandate, in that case.

But seriously, criticizing a VP for working on behalf of his President and country is tactless. Being insubordinate, ineffective, or actively working against the administration would not have been a good look for Biden.

You do not work with people like Mitch McConnell.  Period.

Obama takes full responsibility for his failures, too, be it cutting food stamps, trying to cut Social Security, or lying to the country for four years about keeping your insurance.

Right, as Obama should. It was his administration. If you think Joe Biden took any sort of agency in his work as VP, you need to do more reading about his and Barack's relationship.

You must love a nice government shut down.

You can be an effective Vice President on your own.  Just ask Dick Cheney, who Biden likes.

When has Joe Biden ever said he didn't like someone?

That's the thing: he doesn't, whether it's an obstructionist like McConnell or an actual war criminal like Dick Cheney.

[IceSpear]

wow it might actually be happening... the full sweep

There's a caucus in North Dakota, and I am sure that the five Democrats left in the state will go for Bernie.

I don't think Heidi Heitkamp will go for Bernie, so Biden will at least be viable.

[Progressive Pessimist]

This poll is making me blush. Will it really be this bad for Sanders?

[Sorenroy]

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

It's not my job to get you to vote for Biden.  You just want to spend the next 8 months telling everyone we need to "convince you" to do your basic civic responsibility.  I'm not going to indulge you.

It's not our job to tell you to wash your hands or eat your vegetables either.  These are basic things that all decent, normal people ought to do.  The 55.7% voting rate in this country is like the obesity epidemic.  Just a bunch of people refusing to do the most basic possible thing to make their lives better despite being bombarded left and right for an entire year with messaging begging them to vote.  If you want to be part of it, go on ahead.  All you've achieved is earning universal contempt and helping Trump get re-elected.

You, the person who has spent months berating Sanders and his supporters for mean Tweets, rude supporters, and incoherent policy, are now going to come out any say that it's not your job to convince anybody to vote for your candidate? There are dozens of threads and hundreds of posts authored by you so that you can vent over whatever some random Reddit user is doing on a given day, and now you turn around and complain about how self-entitled Sanders supporters are for wanting to here you practice what you preach?

Of course it's not your job to get anybody to vote for Biden. Of course you don't have to indulge anyone to make them support your candidate. Of course you don't have to tell people to wash their hands and eat their vegetables. But it certainly wouldn't hurt. You don't have to bend over backwards to be nice to strangers on the internet, but if you decide you're not going to, maybe reflect on your last year of posts where that behavior is exactly what you yourself have been complaining about.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Yeah, your condescending attitude isn't going to convince me to vote any differently, sorry.  Biden supporters would do well to practice what they preach when Bernie idiots on Twitter say things that they don't like.

It's not my job to get you to vote for Biden.  You just want to spend the next 8 months telling everyone we need to "convince you" to do your basic civic responsibility.  I'm not going to indulge you.

It's not our job to tell you to wash your hands or eat your vegetables either.  These are basic things that all decent, normal people ought to do.  The 55.7% voting rate in this country is like the obesity epidemic.  Just a bunch of people refusing to do the most basic possible thing to make their lives better despite being bombarded left and right for an entire year with messaging begging them to vote.  If you want to be part of it, go on ahead.  All you've achieved is earning universal contempt and helping Trump get re-elected.

You, the person who has spent months berating Sanders and his supporters for mean Tweets, rude supporters, and incoherent policy, are now going to come out any say that it's not your job to convince anybody to vote for your candidate? There are dozens of threads and hundreds of posts authored by you so that you can vent over whatever some random Reddit user is doing on a given day, and now you turn around and complain about how self-entitled Sanders supporters are for wanting to here you practice what you preach?

Of course it's not your job to get anybody to vote for Biden. Of course you don't have to indulge anyone to make them support your candidate. Of course you don't have to tell people to wash their hands and eat their vegetables. But it certainly wouldn't hurt. You don't have to bend over backwards to be nice to strangers on the internet, but if you decide you're not going to, maybe reflect on your last year of posts where that behavior is exactly what you yourself have been complaining about.

Can you find one single post I made that was "venting over what some random Reddit user did"?

This isn't my first election.  Every two years you get all these people coming along and saying "I won't vote for our candidate/party in the election unless you're really really super extra nice to me and kiss my ass."  I've never seen a single one of these people actually change their minds based on the responses.

It's just attention-seeking behavior.  Engaging with it is a complete waste of time.  In fact I'd go further and say that, since what the X-or-bust types really want is attention, indulging them is actively harmful because it encourages more of this behavior.  Everyone knows the not-voting-unless attitude is immature and actively harmful to the country.  I tried convincing these folks in 2018, 16, 14, and 12, and it never works.  Their mind is already made up.  This time I'm just going to tell them they're being ridiculous and then ignore them.  And I encourage everyone else to do the same.

[Progressive Pessimist]

This poll is making me blush. Will it really be this bad for Sanders?

It was...

[ShamDam]

Another big win for Data for Progress. The new gold standard

[Eraserhead]

This poll is making me blush. Will it really be this bad for Sanders?

It was...

Not exactly. They exaggerated Biden's margin in Michigan by about 5%.

[Progressive Pessimist]

This poll is making me blush. Will it really be this bad for Sanders?

It was...

Not exactly. They exaggerated Biden's margin in Michigan by about 5%.

Yet simultaneously was generous to Sanders in Idaho.