Ukraine general discussion

[😥]

https://twitter.com/Hagstrom_Anders/status/1469017024546455559?t=CDOUEWOIK-IYSxr...

It is even difficult for me now to say who has done more harm to Ukraine and who is more loyal to Moscow, Trump or Biden. Honestly, I didn't expect such things from Biden when I was steadily supporting him during the presidential campaign.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

https://twitter.com/Hagstrom_Anders/status/1469017024546455559?t=CDOUEWOIK-IYSxr...
It is even difficult for me now to say who has done more harm to Ukraine and who is more loyal to Moscow, Trump or Biden. Honestly, I didn't expect such things from Biden when I was steadily supporting him during the presidential campaign.

I swear this 'appeasement' thing didn't go well last time around.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I genuinely don’t know what the alternative is here. It’s very clear that the average American, — rightfully so, isn’t willing to shed blood over Ukraine. Russia appears willing to. And in that battle of wills, Russia is clearly going to win out. This is an existential crisis for them, whereas for the average American it’s just another day / foreign country they don’t even know of, that we shouldn’t be involved in, in the first place.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

While it is certainly a very, vey poor look for Biden (if the various allegations about pressuring Zelensky and withholding arms shipments are true), there is one aspect I don't see anyone mentioning.

If Ukraine and Russia agree on the final disposition of Crimea and the Donbass statelets, doesn't that resolve Ukraine's border/domestic disputes, and clear the way for Ukraine joining NATO?

[Big Abraham]

Good move on Biden's part, if true. The Ukrainian Government has not controlled the Donbass since 2014 and so recognizing Russian sovereignty is merely a formality at this point.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/Hagstrom_Anders/status/1469017024546455559?t=CDOUEWOIK-IYSxr...
It is even difficult for me now to say who has done more harm to Ukraine and who is more loyal to Moscow, Trump or Biden. Honestly, I didn't expect such things from Biden when I was steadily supporting him during the presidential campaign.

I swear this 'appeasement' thing didn't go well last time around.

I'm sure that Putin's pal Trump would have sent loads of young Americans to their death there

[Lord Halifax]

Good move on Biden's part, if true.

It's the kiss of death for any attempt to prevent nuclear proliferation if a former nuclear power which gave up its nukes in return for Western security guarantees is pressured into permanently giving up parts of its territory.

[NewYorkExpress]

Former President Petro Poroshenko has been accused of treason and fiancing rebels in the Donbass region.

Ukrainian authorities placed former president Petro Poroshenko under formal investigation for high treason on Monday, accusing him of links to financing separatist forces in the eastern Donbass region.

Officials said the accusations against Poroshenko were related to similar charges against pro-Russian lawmaker Viktor Medvedchuk, who has been under house arrest for about six months.


Medvedchuk's and Poroshenko's political parties denied wrongdoing.

Oleksander Turchynov, a senior official in Poroshenko's European Solidarity party, said in a statement the accusation was fabricated on the instruction of President Volodymyr Zelenskiy and it would "turn into a farce just like all the previous ones".

Ukraine has been at war with Russian-backed separatists in the Donbass region since 2014.

[StateBoiler]

While it is certainly a very, vey poor look for Biden (if the various allegations about pressuring Zelensky and withholding arms shipments are true), there is one aspect I don't see anyone mentioning.

If Ukraine and Russia agree on the final disposition of Crimea and the Donbass statelets, doesn't that resolve Ukraine's border/domestic disputes, and clear the way for Ukraine joining NATO?

This is the embodiment of how thoughtless foreign policy is in the two main parties of the U.S. today.

What is the primary purpose of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization? It is first and foremost a military defense alliance that has historically been preoccupied with the Soviet Union now Russia as the most plausible aggressor. There is no civilian purpose to NATO, its only concerns are defense.

So we're going to invite Ukraine into NATO...where if inside the organization we would be obligated to come to their military defensive aid if they were attacked by Russia as we are every other country in NATO if attacked by Russia - including the Baltic states...compared to today where no one in Europe or the United States when no obligation exists is voluntarily coming to Ukraine's aid with military equipment or troops on the ground in this potential oncoming conflict of Ukraine being invaded by the Russians?

Long-term, if NATO expands and expands and say a conflict occurs in this new reduced Ukraine or somewhere like Latvia where Western and Central Europe (and the U.S.) ignore their treaty obligation to not risk a broader conflict that kills more people, NATO is being setup to get Rio Treaty'd if you invite these states in, Russia goes to war, and everyone ignores the mutual defense clause in the name of "sucks for you, but it serves the greater peace". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-American_Treaty_of_Reciprocal_Assistance#Decline

[😥]

https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1473403293581942789?t=4XdSmZCjLwvf5XmI1wgJ0Q&am...

Completely true

[PSOL]

How are labor unions and workers rights viewed in post-2014 Ukraine? Has there been any sweeping legislation put forth by each prime minister that changed the local dynamic aside from the mass privatization and lustration?

[BigSerg]

Former President Petro Poroshenko has been accused of treason and fiancing rebels in the Donbass region.

Ukrainian authorities placed former president Petro Poroshenko under formal investigation for high treason on Monday, accusing him of links to financing separatist forces in the eastern Donbass region.

Officials said the accusations against Poroshenko were related to similar charges against pro-Russian lawmaker Viktor Medvedchuk, who has been under house arrest for about six months.


Medvedchuk's and Poroshenko's political parties denied wrongdoing.

Oleksander Turchynov, a senior official in Poroshenko's European Solidarity party, said in a statement the accusation was fabricated on the instruction of President Volodymyr Zelenskiy and it would "turn into a farce just like all the previous ones".

Ukraine has been at war with Russian-backed separatists in the Donbass region since 2014.

Lol. Poroshenko was much more anti-Russian than Zelenskiy, those accusations are unfounded.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1473403293581942789?t=4XdSmZCjLwvf5XmI1wgJ0Q&am...
Completely true

Polls says otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Ukrainian_presidential_election

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Lol. Poroshenko was much more anti-Russian than Zelenskiy, those accusations are unfounded.

He's so hated, he even loses (according to polls) to openly pro-Russian Boyko, whom Zelensky wins easily by 10-20% points.

[StateBoiler]

Pretty good article on life at the front lines from politico.eu

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/12/21/ukraine-front-line-russia-war-525804

[😥]

How are labor unions and workers rights viewed in post-2014 Ukraine? Has there been any sweeping legislation put forth by each prime minister that changed the local dynamic aside from the mass privatization and lustration?

No large-scale legislation on labor unions and workers rights has been adopted. We can say that except for privatization and lustration, almost nothing has changed much.

[😥]

https://twitter.com/babaikit/status/1482968496724131842?t=6TDkLe3FqH1SoGYDOZx-cg...

At this very moment at the Kyiv-Zhulyany airport. Poroshenko is back, we meet him and we will fight to the end against the persecution of the opposition leader by this clown and his team. Instead of joining forces to fight the Russian occupiers, Zelensky is persecuting an opposition leader who, . like you him or not, has done a lot for the country.

[😥]

https://twitter.com/alcebaid/status/1483061233247039496?t=Xe9BTAu6WzboZNP0okZkbQ...

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I don't know much about Ukrainian politics but it's baffling to me how the country appears paralysed by political infighting given the troop movements that are happening on its neighbouring borders. Has Zelensky been as AWOL as he appears from here? Is there any explanation for that other than incompetence?

[DavidB.]

[snip]

Blocking military sales to Ukraine while it is on the verge of being invaded is absolutely unconscionable. What the hell is Germany doing.

[Silent Hunter]

[snip]

Blocking military sales to Ukraine while it is on the verge of being invaded is absolutely unconscionable. What the hell is Germany doing.

Not antagonising its major gas supplier?

[Storr]

[snip]

Blocking military sales to Ukraine while it is on the verge of being invaded is absolutely unconscionable. What the hell is Germany doing.

Not antagonising its major gas supplier?

Relatedly: https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-anti-tank-missiles-ukraine/

“We [the UK] have taken the decision to supply Ukraine with light anti-armor defensive weapon systems,"
So....anti tank missiles? Got it.

Also: "He said “a small number” of British troops would help train Ukrainian forces to use the weaponry."

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1483248132347637761

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1483314484101980163?s=20

[PSOL]

So NATO is getting involved, then yeah, I doubt conflict arises this time. Eventually the time will be that Russia will invade Ukraine and perhaps the Baltics, but I doubt it happens now.