Will you #votebluenomatterwho?

[OSR stands with Israel]

ThatConservativeGuy is no longer a fit for the modern Republican Cult.  Hopefully he will now come to the party of responsible government, with Bill Kristol and I.  I'm proud of him.

Bill Kristol lmao , I would take 90% of the current GOP over him any day possible and the fact is if he was in congress right now he would basically be where Tom Cotton is .


If you want to use a good never Trumper use John Kasich

[Mr. Smith]

Of course not.

Disposing Trump just to do so would solve so little of the hubris he dragged in. It's gotta be done and done right.

[McNukes™ #NYCMMWasAHero]

this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

Can you even present any actual reason to believe this?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes. I considered simply leaving the top spot blank in November, depending on the Democratic nominee. However, since Georgia is likely in play, and this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

You’re a democrat, and your true colors are coming out. If you’re willing to assist a communist takeover of the executive branch — if your willing to abet the utter and irreversible destruction of our constitutional republic, simply  because our moderate, centrist Republican President is too “radical” or “indecent” for you peculiar tastes — get out, forever. You can’t do it fast enough! Get out of our party and join arms with your own kind.
Folks like yourself do not belong with us. We can’t allow our ranks to be filled with feckless democrats-in-all-but-name who are utterly incapable and unwilling of fighting for what’s right and making rational decisions.

So betraying the GOP is worse than betraying the country in your mind. You have come out many times and said you don’t think committing treason against the US is a bad thing and yet you have the nerve to call other people traitors .You hate this nation of ours and you have the freakin gall to post the things you do .


I’m going to end this by this : the fact that you have said that you couldn’t vote for a average dem over a neo Nazi and didn’t answer my question if you would vote for that dem over a literal ISIS member , then that is literally all that needs to be said .



I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever because the fact is you are a terrible person

[TPIG]

this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

Can you even present any actual reason to believe this?

Sure, several. At a very base level, he has no problem debasing the legitimacy of our election process with wild and unverified claims of "millions of illegals voting" and claimed in 2016 that he'd keep America in suspense as to whether he'd accept the results of the election, if he lost. If he spoke in this way about an election that he won, imagine how he will respond if he loses in 2020. Given that the Senate is now basically a symbolic rubber stamp for the President and the judiciary can only pass legal judgments and not actually enforce their rulings, who's going to stop Trump from simply declaring the election null and void, essentially ending the American Republic, for the sake of his own ego? To top that off, he speaks of having the military, the cops, and the bikers - "the tough people" - on his side in case "things get bad". Do you really think that it's ok for a president to hint at who would take his side in the case of a civil war? That's extremely dangerous talk in such a polarized age. Whether he means it in jest or not, he has millions of people who would literally take up arms to keep him in the White House if he claimed that he was being forced out by some deep-state coup.

And of course, there's the fact that he openly invites foreign interference in our elections, blackmails allies into pulling up dirt on political opponents, and is able to commit crimes and violate the Constitution with impunity because of the aforementioned rubber-stamp Senate...so yes, Donald Trump is a threat to our system of government.

[Yellowhammer]

Secondly, it's funny to see you acting as if President Donald "First take the guns, then do due process" Trump, the guy who was pro-choice, pro-single payer, and pro-Hillary, literally 10 years ago is the standard definition of what it means to be a conservative. Also, real conservatives respect the rule of law and the Constitution - two things for which Trump has total disregard.

I don’t idolize Trump, and I don’t pretend that he’s even a good president; as I’ve said before, he’s mediocre at best. In fact, I really dislike Trump. He was never my preference for the Republican nomination, and I ardently opposed him throughout the entire primary season. Once Trump unfortunately secured the Republican nomination, I begrudgingly decided to support his candidacy because the alternative to electing him was and remains entirely unconscionable to anyone who has right-wing values or who could reasonably claim to be conservative or right-libertarian.
I realized that it was best to cut the losses and play with the bad hand we’d been dealt — this hand turned out not to be as awful as I had thought, as we averted the eminently catastrophic Hillary Clinton presidency.
On the other hand, some (small, and shrinking) contingencies who identify with the GOP decided to pitch a never-ending temper tantrum because ya’ll didn’t get your way. You people see politics sort of as a sport — a little game in which you’re just a spectator, and you can willy-nilly pick and switch sides when things don’t go as you’d like. You’re loyal to faces above values, and you choose who you follow based on entirely superficial, meaningless, and usually fraudulent qualities like “niceness,” agreeableness, “humility,” faux “courage,” faux “honor,” etc. You don’t care very much about substance — it’s all about the visceral fee-fee’s.
So anyway, your favored quarterback didn’t get the nod to play for the team in 2016 — that really sucks, doesn’t it? But instead of behaving like level-headed, rational beings and accepting this loss, petulant #NeverTrumpers have worked to actively sabotage and destroy the party and the values they once claimed to stand for (many, as we now know, were intellectual frauds all along).
This really frustrates me. Republicans should tolerate and accept dislike or even hatred for Trump within our ranks — I myself certainly don’t like the President’s personality and make this known to everyone who knows me for long. He isn’t a conservative, he’s a vain and ideologically capricious moderate who, in an ideal world, would never have come close to being the standard bearer for our party. We should even tolerate folks who refuse to vote for Trump — whether that be abstaining or voting third-party. What we should not and can not afford to accept, is the belligerent attitude from many #NeverTrumpers like yourself of frantically throwing wrenches in the cogs of our machine, trying to sabotage and dismantle the operation of the entire party because of superficial stylistic grievances with one rather unimportant man.
The best explanations for Never-Trump “Republicans” who haven’t thrown in the towel and transitioned into hardcore ideological Leftists (or secretly already were before Trump), are that they’re either unwilling to  play the long game, or have a degree of naivety so strong that they can’t understand that the long game even exists. They’re content to fiddle while America burns, so long as they feel “respectable,” “decent,” and “comfortable” whilst doing so.  

If you people aren’t mature enough to put values above your disdain for a temporary little accident like Trump, you simply have no place here. If you aren’t directly in league with the Left (as you seem to be), you at least really don’t care about preserving this nation from it. You’d rather see the last vestiges of liberty and hope be slowly squeezed out of it than to have a rough around the edges, uncivil guy (Trump is no more uncivil than most democrats, btw) have limited power for a few more years.

Finally, it's interesting to accuse me of embracing left-wing authoritarianism when you seem to have a problem sharing a party with anyone who doesn't lick Trump's boots. Sounds a lot like the Stalin's approach towards dissenters or the CCP's approach towards anti-Xi thinkers, ya commie

I think the above pretty much covers this. I neither expect nor want anyone to lick Trump’s boots, and I absolutely eschew such. That’s part of why I refuse to vote for folks like Tommy Tuberville in my home state who campaign solely on rubber stamping any initiative that comes out of the Trump White House.
You plan to vote for left-wing authoritarianism over very watered-down, mildly center-right nationalism, so I think that’s a fair assertion. You may not totally embrace the ideology, but you’re at least cowardly enough to roll out the red carpet for it and surrender without a fight, which makes you just about as good as a full-throttled believer.
I’m not suggesting you should leave the GOP because you disagree with it on some or many issues — I have a multitude of great disagreements with the party’s platform and M.O. But, you have dedicated yourself to destroying all attempts to preserve this country from the Left and to prevent Marxist worldviews from gaining a greater stronghold in our society and government. You have essentially promised your support to the Left for completely irrational and nonsensical reasons. You despise our party and have either disdain or indifference towards it values. You should get out and stay very far away, unless you decide to come to your senses.

[OSR stands with Israel]

SNIP

The fact that you couldnt answer me if you would vote for an average Dem over a literal ISIS member and have said out loud you wouldnt do it against a literal neo-nazi says all there needs to be said about you .

[Yellowhammer]

SNIP

The fact that you couldnt answer me if you would vote for an average Dem over a literal ISIS member and have said out loud you wouldnt do it against a literal neo-nazi says all there needs to be said about you .

For your tired old neo-nazi question that I've already answered multiple times -- I would vote for the democrat so long as he or she were pro-life, but would find it nearly unconscionable to vote for either should the democrat be pro-choice, so I'd likely abstain. However I would've voted for Dan Lipinski over Arthur Jones, for example, as Lipinski is largely pro-life.

As for the ISIS question -- when did you ask this again? I don't remember seeing it. Anyway, I would either vote for the democrat if he or she was acceptable enough, otherwise I'd abstain. The Democratic Party is less of an immediate physical threat to Americans (outside of the womb, that is) than ISIS is

I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever because the fact is you are a terrible person.

Thanks! In no way does this statement remind me of a certain orange president you despise with unhealthily extreme ardor! Not at all!

[OSR stands with Israel]

SNIP

The fact that you couldnt answer me if you would vote for an average Dem over a literal ISIS member and have said out loud you wouldnt do it against a literal neo-nazi says all there needs to be said about you .

For your tired old neo-nazi question that I've already answered multiple times -- I would vote for the democrat so long as he or she were pro-life, but would find it nearly unconscionable to vote for either should the democrat be pro-choice, so I'd likely abstain. However I would've voted for Dan Lipinski over Arthur Jones, for example, as Lipinski is largely pro-life.

As for the ISIS question -- when did you ask this again? I don't remember seeing it. Anyway, I would either vote for the democrat if he or she was acceptable enough, otherwise I'd abstain. The Democratic Party is less of an immediate physical threat to Americans (outside of the womb, that is) than ISIS is

I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever because the fact is you are a terrible person.

Thanks! In no way does this statement remind me of a certain orange president you despise with unhealthily extreme ardor! Not at all!

How could you think about abstaining against an ISIS member , just come on. There has to be a line where you would vote for even the Squad over a person so despicable like an ISIS member is .

Unhealthily despise Trump lol , I told many times I want to vote for him and support him but the fact is his behavior and disregard for the rule of law is why I just cannot vote or support him

[Dr. MB]

Yes. I considered simply leaving the top spot blank in November, depending on the Democratic nominee. However, since Georgia is likely in play, and this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

You’re a democrat, and your true colors are coming out. If you’re willing to assist a communist takeover of the executive branch — if your willing to abet the utter and irreversible destruction of our constitutional republic, simply  because our moderate, centrist Republican President is too “radical” or “indecent” for you peculiar tastes — get out, forever. You can’t do it fast enough! Get out of our party and join arms with your own kind.
Folks like yourself do not belong with us. We can’t allow our ranks to be filled with feckless democrats-in-all-but-name who are utterly incapable and unwilling of fighting for what’s right and making rational decisions.

The weed didn't do it for you huh?

[Mr. Illini]

this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

Can you even present any actual reason to believe this?

Sure, several. At a very base level, he has no problem debasing the legitimacy of our election process with wild and unverified claims of "millions of illegals voting" and claimed in 2016 that he'd keep America in suspense as to whether he'd accept the results of the election, if he lost. If he spoke in this way about an election that he won, imagine how he will respond if he loses in 2020. Given that the Senate is now basically a symbolic rubber stamp for the President and the judiciary can only pass legal judgments and not actually enforce their rulings, who's going to stop Trump from simply declaring the election null and void, essentially ending the American Republic, for the sake of his own ego? To top that off, he speaks of having the military, the cops, and the bikers - "the tough people" - on his side in case "things get bad". Do you really think that it's ok for a president to hint at who would take his side in the case of a civil war? That's extremely dangerous talk in such a polarized age. Whether he means it in jest or not, he has millions of people who would literally take up arms to keep him in the White House if he claimed that he was being forced out by some deep-state coup.

And of course, there's the fact that he openly invites foreign interference in our elections, blackmails allies into pulling up dirt on political opponents, and is able to commit crimes and violate the Constitution with impunity because of the aforementioned rubber-stamp Senate...so yes, Donald Trump is a threat to our system of government.

Good answer. You also forgot to mention that he has not just critiqued the media, but actually branded the free press - a necessary pillar of any functioning democratic system - the "enemy of the people." He routinely uses the term "fake news," an actual problem that should be appropriately addressed, to describe any news that is remotely negative for him politically. He's gaslit a huge portion of the population to the point where they will deny what is confirmed by many reliable media sources so long as Trump tweets out that it is a lie. The man being reported on has become his own reporter. The gutting of American media is an underrated threat to our system of government and while Trump is not the only cause, he is pushing the pedal to the floor.

[TJ in Oregon]

this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

Can you even present any actual reason to believe this?

Sure, several. At a very base level, he has no problem debasing the legitimacy of our election process with wild and unverified claims of "millions of illegals voting" and claimed in 2016 that he'd keep America in suspense as to whether he'd accept the results of the election, if he lost. If he spoke in this way about an election that he won, imagine how he will respond if he loses in 2020. Given that the Senate is now basically a symbolic rubber stamp for the President and the judiciary can only pass legal judgments and not actually enforce their rulings, who's going to stop Trump from simply declaring the election null and void, essentially ending the American Republic, for the sake of his own ego? To top that off, he speaks of having the military, the cops, and the bikers - "the tough people" - on his side in case "things get bad". Do you really think that it's ok for a president to hint at who would take his side in the case of a civil war? That's extremely dangerous talk in such a polarized age. Whether he means it in jest or not, he has millions of people who would literally take up arms to keep him in the White House if he claimed that he was being forced out by some deep-state coup.

And of course, there's the fact that he openly invites foreign interference in our elections, blackmails allies into pulling up dirt on political opponents, and is able to commit crimes and violate the Constitution with impunity because of the aforementioned rubber-stamp Senate...so yes, Donald Trump is a threat to our system of government.

Good answer. You also forgot to mention that he has not just critiqued the media, but actually branded the free press - a necessary pillar of any functioning democratic system - the "enemy of the people." He routinely uses the term "fake news," an actual problem that should be appropriately addressed, to describe any news that is remotely negative for him politically. He's gaslit a huge portion of the population to the point where they will deny what is confirmed by many reliable media sources so long as Trump tweets out that it is a lie. The man being reported on has become his own reporter. The gutting of American media is an underrated threat to our system of government and while Trump is not the only cause, he is pushing the pedal to the floor.

I mean, the media obviously is the enemy of the people. Given the freedoms provided for in the US constitution it has every right to remain so - and people, the president included, have every right to criticize it. But there is no question that the media is an overt enemy to both conservative values* and to a functioning civil society, given both the vast disparity between its views than those of the people it is reporting to, and its incentive to make money by driving controversy. It relentlessly twists every sentence to provide the maximum polarization and outrage and has without a doubt done more to make us all hate each other than any other institution in America. And there is no reconciliation or remorse coming from it, red meat to drive division. The media created Donald Trump. And they strive to hate him, but it is for two reasons: one is that in the cultural circles in which they travel everyone hates him and they are mostly weak-willed and seeking affirmation from their cohort; the second is that, paradoxically, they benefit from him financially, since more controversy = more money. If they really wanted to defeat Trump, the answer would be simple: Trump is a troll. We've all been on an internet forum long enough to know you don't feed the troll.

*There is also something to be said here about the particular role conservative media has played in both ripping apart national cohesion and in undermining conservative values. The Fox News of the world spent decades proclaiming themselves as some kind of great defender of conservative values when it was basically a hypocritical scam filled with people who believed none of it and just used it to make money. See other conservative outlets too for people like George Will or Bill Kristol for added examples of pundits who pretended to be conservative but had no real intent to push those principles beyond a few niche issues (read blah blah blah cultural values but I don't care and will actually just want to invade places and cut taxes since it's all about that $$). Also just watch the advertisements of Fox News sometime to see it is like half scams. Thus a conservative should see most of the US's conservative media as also an enemy, even if an occasionally useful one.

[TJ in Oregon]

this president is a clear and present danger to the long-term health of our entire system of government, yes, I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

Can you even present any actual reason to believe this?

Sure, several. At a very base level, he has no problem debasing the legitimacy of our election process with wild and unverified claims of "millions of illegals voting" and claimed in 2016 that he'd keep America in suspense as to whether he'd accept the results of the election, if he lost. If he spoke in this way about an election that he won, imagine how he will respond if he loses in 2020. Given that the Senate is now basically a symbolic rubber stamp for the President and the judiciary can only pass legal judgments and not actually enforce their rulings, who's going to stop Trump from simply declaring the election null and void, essentially ending the American Republic, for the sake of his own ego? To top that off, he speaks of having the military, the cops, and the bikers - "the tough people" - on his side in case "things get bad". Do you really think that it's ok for a president to hint at who would take his side in the case of a civil war? That's extremely dangerous talk in such a polarized age. Whether he means it in jest or not, he has millions of people who would literally take up arms to keep him in the White House if he claimed that he was being forced out by some deep-state coup.

And of course, there's the fact that he openly invites foreign interference in our elections, blackmails allies into pulling up dirt on political opponents, and is able to commit crimes and violate the Constitution with impunity because of the aforementioned rubber-stamp Senate...so yes, Donald Trump is a threat to our system of government.

These are major faults of course, but one thing I would like to point out here is that when he won, his opponents' voters were the ones who had an extremely hard time accepting that. In 2012 when Mitt Romney lost, I didn't spend days hearing from disaffected Republicans calling for an armed revolt, or even much moaning about how the election had been stolen. Sure, there are always people who think every election was stolen unless they win, but the Democratic Party establishment did spend years claiming Russia "hacked" the election (and intentionally misleading phrase that suggests they hacked into vote-counting machines rather than had a few internet trolls illegally campaigning). Strangely, not to be outdone, whereas Trump called for an investigation into Hillary Clinton (a threat of imprisoning his opponent), it was none other than our 'reasonable' establishment Republican Bill Weld who is running with the position that Trump (his opponent) be executed. There is a lot more incivility than just Trump.

All of this is crazy talk from where we were pre-2016 in the national narrative. The question then is whether it is a consequence of Trump, or whether Trump simply ripped down the facade of civility. My personal belief is the latter. The unfortunate question is when we can stop tearing down the corrupt elements of our system and actually build something positive. I am not optimistic I will live to see it. People yell at each other recreationally on the internet, yes, but there is little else actually happening. I doubt the decline will end until we're, as a society, uncomfortable enough to want to build something better.