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  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderators: Aunty Entity, Associate Justice PiT)
  Trotsky or Stalin?
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Poll
Question: Which one do you prefer?
#1
Leon Trotsky
 
#2
Josef Stalin
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 37

Author Topic: Trotsky or Stalin?  (Read 328 times)
buritobr
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« on: February 14, 2020, 07:17:15 pm »

When Lenin died in 1924, there was a dispute about his sucession. Stalin or Trotsky could be the following soviet leader. Trotsky was supporter of the "permanent revolution". Stalin accepted the "socialism in only one country". Stalin won. Trotsky was killed in Mexico in 1940. Stalin ruled the USSR until his death in 1953.
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John Dule
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 07:59:08 pm »

While I was in Mexico City this winter, I went to Trotsky's house and got a picture of myself dancing on his grave.
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BP🌹
BP1202
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 08:03:21 pm »

While I was in Mexico City this winter, I went to Trotsky's house and got a picture of myself dancing on his grave.
Really? I'm so jealous.
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ERM64man
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2020, 08:05:44 pm »

Trotsky. Stalin was one of the worst mass murderers in history.
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John Dule
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 08:23:12 pm »

While I was in Mexico City this winter, I went to Trotsky's house and got a picture of myself dancing on his grave.
Really? I'm so jealous.

Yeah, it was a good trip. Didn't get to see the ice pick, though. Apparently it was kept by one of the police officers as a souvenir.
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Nathan
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2020, 08:26:09 pm »

On a purely theoretical level, I can actually see a decent argument being made that Stalinism was better (or, rather, less bad) than Trotskyism. I think Orwell says somewhere that it's mostly just the fact that Trotskyites happened not to wield power anywhere during most of the relevant time periods that makes them look like they had the moral high ground. However, it remains the case that as a matter of historical happenstance they do look like they had the moral high ground for that reason. I didn't vote.
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John Dule
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 08:33:29 pm »

On a purely theoretical level, I can actually see a decent argument being made that Stalinism was better (or, rather, less bad) than Trotskyism. I think Orwell says somewhere that it's mostly just the fact that Trotskyites happened not to wield power anywhere during most of the relevant time periods that makes them look like they had the moral high ground. However, it remains the case that as a matter of historical happenstance they do look like they had the moral high ground for that reason. I didn't vote.

I voted for Stalin just out of spite, and for this exact reason. Berkeley communists adore Trotsky; they plaster his face all over their leaflets and pamphlets. Lucky for them that a historical accident prevented him from being associated with mass murder-- otherwise they'd have to find another poster boy for their hateful ideology.
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TheLaRocca
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 09:35:11 pm »

While I was in Mexico City this winter, I went to Trotsky's house and got a picture of myself dancing on his grave.

good looks agreed its all about Stalin.

obviously both are evil. But if Trotsky had the power he'd do the exact same thing lol.
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АndriуValeriovich
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2020, 02:06:01 am »

Trotsky. Stalin was one of the worst mass murderers in history.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2020, 02:54:29 am »

They're both as terrible as each other. What people forget about Trotsky is that he was very much in favour of the 'global revolution' idea, which means that he inevitably begins a forever war for global communism.
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PSOL
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2020, 03:02:57 am »

Like the only difference Trotsky really had was his proclaimed support for multiparty democracy and his version of Leninist organization. By all accounts, he and Stalin are the exact same outside of their opposition on who should succeed Lenin.
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Lakigigar
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 03:50:44 am »

Trotsky by default.

Stalin wasn't a communist. He was a mass murderer.
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Cath
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2020, 09:43:13 am »

Trotsky by default.

Stalin wasn't a communist. He was a mass murderer.

So what does that make Mao?
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c r a b c a k e
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2020, 12:39:49 pm »

I don't particularly like Trotsky, but I think it would sell short Stalin's wickedness to equate the two. The USSR was never particularly nice or liberal - don't get me wrong - but only when Stalin took the helm did it take on its deranged totalitarian form. (I also highly doubt Trotsky would have been as stupid and short sighted as Stalin was in the lead up to WW2).

The thing is Trotsky was one of those people who loved to straddle all sides in factional war that end up being loathed by all principle players as an opportunist. It's not a personality type that tends to really get a chance to enjoy being top dog, because people think you're a difficult bastard.
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buritobr
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2020, 11:51:33 am »

On a purely theoretical level, I can actually see a decent argument being made that Stalinism was better (or, rather, less bad) than Trotskyism. I think Orwell says somewhere that it's mostly just the fact that Trotskyites happened not to wield power anywhere during most of the relevant time periods that makes them look like they had the moral high ground. However, it remains the case that as a matter of historical happenstance they do look like they had the moral high ground for that reason. I didn't vote.

I voted for Stalin just out of spite, and for this exact reason. Berkeley communists adore Trotsky; they plaster his face all over their leaflets and pamphlets. Lucky for them that a historical accident prevented him from being associated with mass murder-- otherwise they'd have to find another poster boy for their hateful ideology.

Yeah. Since Stalin became a symbol of authoritarian socialism and Trotsky was Stalin's enemy, Trotsky became a symbol of libertarian socialism. But this is a myth. Trotsky and Stalin disagreed with each other in many issues, but authoritarism was not one of them. During the Civil War, Trotsky was more stalinist than Stalin.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2020, 03:30:24 pm »

Stalin wasn't a communist. He was a mass murderer.

What's the difference?
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L.D. Smith
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2020, 03:37:20 pm »

That's like the difference between Santino or Michael.
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