Red avatars only: Your opinion on Democratic court-packing

[President Johnson]

Terrible idea. Once they start, Republicans will do it better/worse. There is no other way it ends other than growing at a never-ending exponential rate.

Really simple. 18 year terms. New justice every other year. Next outgoing justice is Chief Justice. No re-appointments.

This.

And if a vacancy occurs due to death, impeachment or resignation, the appointed successor should serve until the end of that regular term, but eligible to reappointment for a full term if he or she has served less than a half term in the first place.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

We dont need to make PR a state, but Robert's is a Hardiman conservative and will play ball with the Dems on DC statehood, some restrictions on gun control and we dont know yet on Citizens United, thus, he should be tested on Dem trifecta Bill's, first. Like Ginsberg said, before going full blown on 11 judge panel

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

We dont need to make PR a state, but Robert's is a Hardiman conservative and will play ball with the Dems on DC statehood, some restrictions on gun control and we dont know yet on Citizens United, thus, he should be tested on Dem trifecta Bill's, first. Like Ginsberg said, before going full blown on 11 judge panel

There is a far better case for PR statehood than DC statehood.

DC should be a congressional district with voting rights for Maryland Senators.

[Sic Semper Fascistis]

An indispensable necessity

[Yoda]

I am all for it. Add 2 more seats under the idea that there are 11 circuits. After McConnell stole a seat it's the right thing to do to achieve a balance on the court.

I'm also all for the idea of Democratic court-packing. Republicans have left the majority party with no other option if we ever want SCOTUS rulings grounded in law and not right-wing ideology for the next 30 years. But, I think we should take away two seats from the Court, not add them. Last two on, first two off. That way, we could get Trump's appointees, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, off the bench.

If Dems wanted, they could then later add seats back to the Court and fill them with Democrats. If Democrats go down this road, they should in now way allow the illegitimate Trump justices to remain on the bench.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I am all for it. Add 2 more seats under the idea that there are 11 circuits. After McConnell stole a seat it's the right thing to do to achieve a balance on the court.

I'm also all for the idea of Democratic court-packing. Republicans have left the majority party with no other option if we ever want SCOTUS rulings grounded in law and not right-wing ideology for the next 30 years. But, I think we should take away two seats from the Court, not add them. Last two on, first two off. That way, we could get Trump's appointees, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, off the bench.

If Dems wanted, they could then later add seats back to the Court and fill them with Democrats. If Democrats go down this road, they should in now way allow the illegitimate Trump justices to remain on the bench.

This is one of many end-runs around the "lifetime appointment" term in the constitution that wouldn't pass muster outside of an amendment.

Court-packing actually has some chance of success, this doesn't.

[OBD]

It's a terrible idea, but if Republicans pack the court more (i.e replace RBG and Breyer with conservatives) the unprecedented ideological imbalance could force the issue.

[Tintrlvr]

I am all for it. Add 2 more seats under the idea that there are 11 circuits. After McConnell stole a seat it's the right thing to do to achieve a balance on the court.

I'm also all for the idea of Democratic court-packing. Republicans have left the majority party with no other option if we ever want SCOTUS rulings grounded in law and not right-wing ideology for the next 30 years. But, I think we should take away two seats from the Court, not add them. Last two on, first two off. That way, we could get Trump's appointees, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, off the bench.

If Dems wanted, they could then later add seats back to the Court and fill them with Democrats. If Democrats go down this road, they should in now way allow the illegitimate Trump justices to remain on the bench.

This is one of many end-runs around the "lifetime appointment" term in the constitution that wouldn't pass muster outside of an amendment.

Court-packing actually has some chance of success, this doesn't.

In fact, isn't there jurisprudence specifically on this issue from the earliest years of the Republic? I forget the name of the case but something about Congress not being able to eliminate Article III judgeships while they are currently occupied because judges have lifetime appointment (even though Congress is authorized to determine how many Article III judges there are more generally). So Congress could reduce the number of Supreme Court seats, but they'd have to do it by attrition; if the court size were reduced to seven justices, the next two to leave the bench just wouldn't be replaced.

I worry about the precedent court-packing sets, but I think it may be justified in context of needing a total renovation of the court to renovate the structure of the system more generally. And I am generally a strong anti-system person (I strongly dislike the structure set out in the Constitution for the federal government, such as the existence of the Senate, the Electoral College and the Presidency), so I suppose I can't be principally opposed to operating fundamentally within the system on this issue.

[Yoda]

I am all for it. Add 2 more seats under the idea that there are 11 circuits. After McConnell stole a seat it's the right thing to do to achieve a balance on the court.

I'm also all for the idea of Democratic court-packing. Republicans have left the majority party with no other option if we ever want SCOTUS rulings grounded in law and not right-wing ideology for the next 30 years. But, I think we should take away two seats from the Court, not add them. Last two on, first two off. That way, we could get Trump's appointees, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, off the bench.

If Dems wanted, they could then later add seats back to the Court and fill them with Democrats. If Democrats go down this road, they should in now way allow the illegitimate Trump justices to remain on the bench.

This is one of many end-runs around the "lifetime appointment" term in the constitution that wouldn't pass muster outside of an amendment.

Court-packing actually has some chance of success, this doesn't.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. Well, in that case, 13 is a much nicer sounding number to me than 11....

[Jumped off the American Sinking Ship]

bad idea and precedent. What's better is term limits on them to prevent things like "RBG should have resigned while Dems had control" etc. Strategic resigning is antithetical to the court's independence. In the case of death there's an appointee that can serve for the remainder of the term, and potentially for a full term, though I'm not 100% sure on it.

Ideally I am not opposed to making the supreme court larger as well (preferably 11 b/c 11 circuits etc) but the problem is the precedent. What stops one party from adding 2 seats, then the next election the opposition adds 2 again, or more?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I am all for it. Add 2 more seats under the idea that there are 11 circuits. After McConnell stole a seat it's the right thing to do to achieve a balance on the court.

I'm also all for the idea of Democratic court-packing. Republicans have left the majority party with no other option if we ever want SCOTUS rulings grounded in law and not right-wing ideology for the next 30 years. But, I think we should take away two seats from the Court, not add them. Last two on, first two off. That way, we could get Trump's appointees, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, off the bench.

If Dems wanted, they could then later add seats back to the Court and fill them with Democrats. If Democrats go down this road, they should in now way allow the illegitimate Trump justices to remain on the bench.

This is one of many end-runs around the "lifetime appointment" term in the constitution that wouldn't pass muster outside of an amendment.

Court-packing actually has some chance of success, this doesn't.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. Well, in that case, 13 is a much nicer sounding number to me than 11....

Problem is, you add four, the next GOP President adds eight. This continues until one President is ruthless enough to ask their hand-picked court to overturn the election results.

The potential consequences of this strategy are far worse than an unbalanced court.

[Yoda]

I am all for it. Add 2 more seats under the idea that there are 11 circuits. After McConnell stole a seat it's the right thing to do to achieve a balance on the court.

I'm also all for the idea of Democratic court-packing. Republicans have left the majority party with no other option if we ever want SCOTUS rulings grounded in law and not right-wing ideology for the next 30 years. But, I think we should take away two seats from the Court, not add them. Last two on, first two off. That way, we could get Trump's appointees, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, off the bench.

If Dems wanted, they could then later add seats back to the Court and fill them with Democrats. If Democrats go down this road, they should in now way allow the illegitimate Trump justices to remain on the bench.

This is one of many end-runs around the "lifetime appointment" term in the constitution that wouldn't pass muster outside of an amendment.

Court-packing actually has some chance of success, this doesn't.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. Well, in that case, 13 is a much nicer sounding number to me than 11....

Problem is, you add four, the next GOP President adds eight. This continues until one President is ruthless enough to ask their hand-picked court to overturn the election results.

The potential consequences of this strategy are far worse than an unbalanced court.

I disagree that the consequences of doing it are worse than what we are getting now from SCOTUS (Citizens United, Hobby Lobby, Muslim travel ban, green light to stealing construction funds from military projects for border wall, gutting the VRA, endless pro-gun rulings, Bush v Gore, ideological anti-union rulings, green lights for anti-immigrant and anti-environment regulations, the coming decisions that will seek to overturn Roe v Wade, etc, etc, etc ) but I do of course see your point and respect the argument.

Democrats are not only 100% justified in doing this, they would be stupid not to. So many people don't have faith in our government anymore b/c it is not representative. That's very dangerous for a democracy. Democrats have won the vote in 6 of the last 7 Presidential elections yet are a minority on the court? A twice-elected popular President's nominee not even being allowed hearings? It's simply outrageous that the minority continuously and gleefully shoves their will down the majority's throat in this country. Democrats should have at least 7 seats on SCOTUS, not 4. That's a literal world of difference, with enormous consequences for decades, and not something that can be rationalized away. It's an imbalance that was literally stolen that must be taken back like stolen property is taken back from a thief.

The best thing Democrats could do is after they beat Trump in November and if they take the Senate as well, is give D.C. the two senators they always should have had, and then grant Puerto Rico statehood so they get two senators as well. That would make it extremely rare for there to be a scenario where there is a republican president who also has a republican majority in the senate to approve his nominees. And if there is a future republican president with a Democratic senate, simply ignore his nominees like they did to Merrick Garland. It's time we learned from McConnell and took ruthlessness to a whole new level.

[Adam Griffin]

We can live in a world where Republicans do it, or we can live in a world where Republicans and Democrats do it. There are no alternatives.

[หมูเด้ง]

We can live in a world where Republicans do it, or we can live in a world where Republicans and Democrats do it. There are no alternatives.

That's pretty much it but I can see the situation being avoided if Democrats win at least something this next cycle so as to prevent the GOP from completely packing the Court and that Roberts can be convinced that in exchange for not giving Kavanaugh, Alito, Gorsuch and Thomas whatever they want, tradition will be respected. 

[Adam Griffin]

We can live in a world where Republicans do it, or we can live in a world where Republicans and Democrats do it. There are no alternatives.

That's pretty much it but I can see the situation being avoided if Democrats win at least something this next cycle so as to prevent the GOP from completely packing the Court and that Roberts can be convinced that in exchange for not giving Kavanaugh, Alito, Gorsuch and Thomas whatever they want, tradition will be respected. 

It's not just SCOTUS. It's also in states like my own - where Nathan Deal on his way out decided to add 2 new members to the court to erase the still-existing Democratic State Supreme Court majority with his handpicked Republican acolytes. They're going to do this anywhere and everywhere that their rule is threatened. Hopefully, the otherwise spineless, limp-d[inks]ked modern-day Democratic coalition stops calling for "peace" and "bipartisanship" and embraces actual reality.

[Free Speech Enjoyer]

My heart says yes; conservatives have enjoyed levels of power far disproportionate to their amount of actual support for most of the last twenty years thanks in part to court games - specifically the stealing of a presidential election and McConnell's refusal to let the Senate consider Obama's SCOTUS nominee.  Those two things have caused irreversible damage to the integrity of the Supreme Court and the inability to remedy those errors and their consequences will be felt by the nation for generations to come.

My brain says no; vengeance is never the foundation of a healthy democracy and any attempt at retribution, while morally justified, will further hinder the ability of the nation to recover from past wrongdoings and blatant power grabs.  That includes Second Amendment solutions.

So while the structure of the courts will remain a political football for years to come, the best thing we can do now is reform the way judges are appointed, rather than resort to court-packing which will surely backfire.  Illiniwek's idea seems to be the most fair.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I think to be both politically palatable and difficult for Republicans to replicate, they'd have to restore the original pre-1867 size of one Justice per Circuit.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I think it would be better for the next President to just not enforce bogus Supreme Court rulings.

[Yoda]

I think it would be better for the next President to just not enforce bogus Supreme Court rulings.

I get the sentiment, but I feel like this would be literally a million times more controversial and explosive than a court expansion.

[Non Swing Voter]

Democrats need to grow a backbone and start doing things like this.

They should have arrested every person who did not cooperate with their subpoenas in the House.

They should make recess appointments without even consulting the Senate. 

Their lack of backbone and leadership is not just a theoretical thing.  It has real world consequences on the people who voter for them expecting they'd do something other than feign outrage on TV.  Because of this there are now religious extremists running our Courts.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Democrats need to grow a backbone and start doing things like this.

They should have arrested every person who did not cooperate with their subpoenas in the House.

They should make recess appointments without even consulting the Senate. 

Their lack of backbone and leadership is not just a theoretical thing.  It has real world consequences on the people who voter for them expecting they'd do something other than feign outrage on TV.  Because of this there are now religious extremists running our Courts.

lol no there isnt

[MarkD]

There is more than one kind of Court-packing plan that could be proposed. I support Pete for the nomination because he has a better idea about how to expand the Court than any other Democrat. Just expanding the Court in order to pack more liberals on it is going to continue the politicization of the Court, which is only a conspiracy to seize power, not a plan to govern the county wisely. Expanding the Court via Pete's plan is very likely going to improve the Court's objectivity. That's less politicization of the Court, not more.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This poll result proves that democrats wanted to pack the court even before now oh and if any of them is trying to question if this is really a redline for me , right here from the thread

If Democrats try to do this I hope republicans obstruct that president at least 5 times more than they did to Obama


Also if any democrat runs on this is they win the nomination, I will drop my never Trumpism in a second and will vote to re-elect Trump as that Democrat will have proven that they totally hate democracy , and are a total threat to our constitution .

Whether I go through with this or not depend on how democratic leadership handles this issue over the next few weeks

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

It's not gonna happen, it's a fundraising tool to get donations for McGrath,  Harrison and Espy whom have been triaged already. Its gonna be a 291-247  and 50 to 52 seat majority.  Dems dont think they can win a close election, they only want an EC Landslide so it doesnt go to House or Conservative Crt.


The caveat was that Trump was near 50 percent approvals before vacancy, he may get over 50 percent, since Graham sas he will come out with Hunter Biden probe in late Oct and Trump will get a bump for debates and CRT nomination

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Terrible idea. Once they start, Republicans will do it better/worse. There is no other way it ends other than growing at a never-ending exponential rate.

Really simple. 18 year terms. New justice every other year. Next outgoing justice is Chief Justice. No re-appointments.

For some reason, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and Northern Marianas Islands federal courts have 10 year terms. There seems to be a lot of bipartisanship in renominating judges, though.