International COVID-19 Megathread

[jamestroll]

I was going to travel international next month, partially to trigger the online left, but that may not be possible if the US implements a quarantine requirement on returning travelers.. even those with three covid shots .. ugh

If you were already going to take time off to travel, is 7 extra days really a deal-breaker?

I’d imagine for the vast majority of Americans, yes. This wouldn’t affect me because I have the option of working remotely whenever I want, but I only have 15 vacation days a year and that’s more than most. Using 7 days (if I’m require to work in-person, as most people are now) would mean using 1/3 of them quarantining myself which is enough of a disincentive for me not to bother. Or, e.g. my sister, who’s a college student planning to abroad during her winter break to meet our grandmothers for the first time since pre-pandemic, would likely cancel if it meant missing a week of class.

I’m skeptical it’s going to happen, but any enforced quarantine period is likely enough to be a massive disincentive to travel internationally esp in this country.

I just would refuse to comply with a quarantine requirement in my own damn country being fully vaccinated, with a booster shot, coming from a country with a far lower per capita case load than the United States.

But as someone who is not very risk tolerant (even if a quarantine is not enforced, I would hate to be caught), I would probably just end up cancelling.

[jamestroll]

More proof that lockdowns are BS

On March 15 2020, with 28 confirmed cases and no reported deaths, the Peruvian government declared a nationwide state of emergency. This quickly introduced a series of strong control measures, which included closing borders, restricting freedom of movement nationwide and banning crowds from gathering. Schools, universities and churches were closed. In general, all non-essential activities or services were restricted, including non-emergency primary healthcare.

But unfortunately, the early adoption of these measures wasn’t enough to lessen the impact of the pandemic. Cases immediately started to climb.

The government had acknowledged that adopting a strict lockdown would be difficult. Peru has a large informal workforce and a fairly limited social security system – meaning that staying at home, off work, would be hard for many. So the government announced a series of policies, such as cash transfers, to try to protect people’s livelihoods while asking them to stay at home.

But the state didn’t have the capacity to deliver cash and food in a way that prevented citizens from needing to venture out. People still had to go out and form long queues in banks to receive their cash transfers. Many also still needed to travel daily to food markets. Both became potential infection hotspots.

https://theconversation.com/how-peru-became-the-country-with-the-highest-covid-death-rate-in-the-world-169779

People have also ended up crowding at banks as they attempted to access coronavirus relief funds.
The government's stimulus package to help millions of Peru's most vulnerable families was a good idea, but its distribution was poorly designed, said Kristian Lopez Vargas, a Peruvian economist and assistant professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz.
In a report last year, the agency that regulates Peru's banks reported that only about 38% of adults have a bank account. The lack of access to the financial system means a majority of aid recipients have to go in person to the banks to obtain their money.
"It was not hard to anticipate people's behavior in their attempt to access this aid," Lopez Vargas told CNN. "Instead, these policies caused unnecessary harm by inducing people to gather in large crowds in banks."
Many Peruvians also live and work in ways that simply can't be reconciled with social distancing, he pointed out. According to Lopez Vargas, more than 30% of households in Peru live in overcrowded conditions, with four or more people sleeping in the same room.
And more than 72% work in the informal economy, according to Peru's National Institute of Statistics and Information. For those living day-to-day in the informal sector, earning an income oftentimes depends on going out to work and not self-isolating.
This, combined with the needs of millions to obtain food and other items from crowded markets, "was an explosive mix," Lopez Vargas said.

[CumbrianLefty]

I was going to travel international next month, partially to trigger the online left, but that may not be possible if the US implements a quarantine requirement on returning travelers.. even those with three covid shots .. ugh

Really no need, in any sense.

[President Johnson]

Germany update: We're moving closer to a general vaccine mandate coming February or March. After Chancellor-designate Olaf Scholz (SPD), members of the Greens and CDU politicians warmed up to the idea, FDP-Leader and incoming Finance Minister Christian Lindner has finally reversed his stance, saying that 68% vaccinated is not sufficient. In a brand new poll, 71% of the public supports a vaccine mandate. Other polls showed support in the mid or high 60s as well.

Furthermore, unvaccinated are now essentially locked out of all stores except for basic needs such as supermarkets and drug stores. Yesterday, another 73,000 cases were reported and hospitals in Bavaria and Saxony in particular are overloaded. The Air Force has moved over two dozens ICU Covid patients to other states. Even France already offered to take patients now we helped our neighbors in previous waves.

[DINGO Joe]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

[支持核绿派 (Greens4Nuclear)]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/30/omicron-stricter-travel-rules-us-entry/

As part of an enhanced winter covid strategy Biden is expected to announce Thursday, U.S. officials would require everyone entering the country to be tested one day before boarding flights, regardless of their vaccination status or country of departure. Administration officials are also considering a requirement that all travelers get retested within three to five days of arrival.

In addition, they are debating a controversial proposal to require all travelers, including U.S. citizens, to self-quarantine for seven days, even if their test results are negative. Those who flout the requirements might be subject to fines and penalties, the first time such penalties would be linked to testing and quarantine measures for travelers in the United States.

The two testing measures are detailed in a draft public health order written by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that is under review by officials at the U.S. Health and Human Services Department and the White House. The self quarantine-related measures are not in that draft but could be added later if the proposals win broader sign-off, said the officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the order has not been finalized.

Unless you are coming from Europe I guess... we don't exactly have to fear the rest of the world giving covid to us. I am more worried about the reverse!

Can't fact check this image or what it means since it's a Discord upload, but it seems like Mainland SE Asia and Malaysia are having a rough time with COVID-19 right now.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Germany update: We're moving closer to a general vaccine mandate coming February or March. After Chancellor-designate Olaf Scholz (SPD), members of the Greens and CDU politicians warmed up to the idea, FDP-Leader and incoming Finance Minister Christian Lindner has finally reversed his stance, saying that 68% vaccinated is not sufficient. In a brand new poll, 71% of the public supports a vaccine mandate. Other polls showed support in the mid or high 60s as well.

Furthermore, unvaccinated are now essentially locked out of all stores except for basic needs such as supermarkets and drug stores. Yesterday, another 73,000 cases were reported and hospitals in Bavaria and Saxony in particular are overloaded. The Air Force has moved over two dozens ICU Covid patients to other states. Even France already offered to take patients now we helped our neighbors in previous waves.

It's noteworthy that the newest round of tighter COVID restrictions are still almost exclusively directed at the unvaccinated, barring a few exceptions like the shutdown of clubs at a seven day incidence of 350.

This probably becomes most apparent with the new social distancing rules: If private gatherings of people consist exclusively of vaccinated and recovered the upper limit is 50 people indoors and 200 people outdoors, provided the seven day incidence has reached 350 in the respective city/county (below the 350 threshold there are no restrictions at all). As soon as a single non-vaccinated or non-recovered person attends a private gathering the social distancing rules switch to a single household plus two people max. from another household, irrespective of the seven day incidence.

This means political leaders chose to continue to ignore the advice of virologists who have advocated tighter restrictions for the vaccinated. Let's see if this approach will be viable for the entire winter.

Overall, Olaf Scholz also seems to be more reluctant to institute stricter measures compared to Angela Merkel... albeit not as reluctant as his coalition partners from the FDP.

[CumbrianLefty]

Some tentative evidence emerging that vaccines may be quite effective against Omicron after all.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

And Switzerland has banned entry from half the world, which is great, doesn't disrupt plans that I had been making for months and months or anything

we're never going back to normal are we? Every year we're going to have a new scary variant, and lockdowns and travel bans and panics about the vaccine no matter how mild or how many people vaccinated there might be. I'm completely ing sick of this.

*privileged folks complaining they only can travel to half the world*

There is a climate crisis, mind you, sir!? Just don't tell me, you've planned to travel by train.

We don't know, how mild it is. Even if it's relatively mild, it might be so transmittable that it will wreak havoc on poor countries's healthcare system. But disrupting plans of white libs is much more important! No safari for poor guys!

FT:

[parochial boy]

And Switzerland has banned entry from half the world, which is great, doesn't disrupt plans that I had been making for months and months or anything

we're never going back to normal are we? Every year we're going to have a new scary variant, and lockdowns and travel bans and panics about the vaccine no matter how mild or how many people vaccinated there might be. I'm completely ing sick of this.

*privileged folks complaining they only can travel to half the world*

There is a climate crisis, mind you, sir!? Just don't tell me, you've planned to travel by train.

We don't know, how mild it is. Even if it's relatively mild, it might be so transmittable that it will wreak havoc on poor countries's healthcare system. But disrupting plans of white libs is much more important! No safari for poor guys!

I wasn't going to travel abroad, in fact, I already missed the death and funeral of a family member this year because of travel restrictions. This was going to be my first opportunity to meet my nephew who was born earlier this year and who I haven't been able to meet so far due to those very same travel restrictions.

So I'd maybe think a little bit in future, before throwing around accusations about people who you don't know anything about.

As for South Africa - well the reaction to the travel bans there has been extremely angry. Because their perception is that the damage caused by lost tourist income is far more painful than the Omicron wave. Especially for people whose often meagre income depends on it and who don't really have access to the kind of welfare state that we Europeans (well maybe not you) have.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

And Switzerland has banned entry from half the world, which is great, doesn't disrupt plans that I had been making for months and months or anything

we're never going back to normal are we? Every year we're going to have a new scary variant, and lockdowns and travel bans and panics about the vaccine no matter how mild or how many people vaccinated there might be. I'm completely ing sick of this.

*privileged folks complaining they only can travel to half the world*

There is a climate crisis, mind you, sir!? Just don't tell me, you've planned to travel by train.

We don't know, how mild it is. Even if it's relatively mild, it might be so transmittable that it will wreak havoc on poor countries's healthcare system. But disrupting plans of white libs is much more important! No safari for poor guys!

I wasn't going to travel abroad, in fact, I already missed the death and funeral of a family member this year because of travel restrictions. This was going to be my first opportunity to meet my nephew who was born earlier this year and who I haven't been able to meet so far due to those very same travel restrictions.

So I'd maybe think a little bit in future, before throwing around accusations about people who you don't know anything about.

As for South Africa - well the reaction to the travel bans there has been extremely angry. Because their perception is that the damage caused by lost tourist income is far more painful than the Omicron wave. Especially for people whose often meagre income depends on it and who don't really have access to the kind of welfare state that we Europeans (well maybe not you) have.

You wrote that Switzerland " has banned entry from half the world" which somehow "disrupt your planes". Moreover, I responded to a general anti-travel-ban statement.

With regards to SA, why would anyone care about perception or feelings. For-turism-only-purpose flights are really bad for climate (and poorer countries will be hit disproportionately), didn't you know that? (Personally, I'm team muh science will fix it anyway so let's live our lives, but I thought, you were team Greta?).

Moreover, if Omicron is as transmittable as it seems to be, the desire to travel there would likely decrease to near 0 "naturally" by itself in matter of days/weeks anyway.

[parochial boy]

Well those were my plans, which were completely destroyed by a last minute panic reaction that was beyond what almost any other country has done, and was reversed today (too late obviously) when it became apparent they were serving no purpose.

As for climate change, it's not really relevant to the subject at hand, but my opinion is that it is going to take political action, and that pushing for individual changes in consumer behaviour is really just the political authorities and economic powers palming off the responsibility on to everyone else, knowing fully well that it won't work. I'm not dogmatic about what measures we use, god knows its complicated and affects different people in different ways, but if you think that the left-wing position on climate change comes down to shouting at people to get the train and not eat meat, you might have misunderstood what exactly it is that the left it about.

And it's not "perceptions" and "feelings" for South Africa, that lack of a tourist season for them will have economic consequences, and consequentially human consequences that are especially hard for the often precarious and vulnerable to poverty South Africans whose income depends on it.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Well those were my plans, which were completely destroyed by a last minute panic reaction that was beyond what almost any other country has done, and was reversed today (too late obviously) when it became apparent they were serving no purpose.

As for climate change, it's not really relevant to the subject at hand, but my opinion is that it is going to take political action, and that pushing for individual changes in consumer behaviour is really just the political authorities and economic powers palming off the responsibility on to everyone else, knowing fully well that it won't work. I'm not dogmatic about what measures we use, god knows its complicated and affects different people in different ways, but if you think that the left-wing position on climate change comes down to shouting at people to get the train and not eat meat, you might have misunderstood what exactly it is that the left it about.

And it's not "perceptions" and "feelings" for South Africa, that lack of a tourist season for them will have economic consequences, and consequentially human consequences that are especially hard for the often precarious and vulnerable to poverty South Africans whose income depends on it.

It's perception and feelings, because given the outbreak nobody (much fewer) would fly there anyway. Do you have any doubt about it?

My point re:climate: that a "political push" about "consumer behaviour" (like you know - to fly less for instance) would eventually have "economic consequences, and consequentially human consequences" for poor countries. That is exactly the same as with travel bans - good for climate, bad for those poor countries whose economy is dependent on airplane tourism.

You probably doubt that West's "unhealthy" consumption was extremely good for poor countries? Well, in that case, yawn whatever.

[Edu]

For now ay least, My plans to travel to Italy in january are still on. Does any italian know what are the prospects for entry there in the short term? I have an italian passport by the way Unless there is an outright travel ban or something, I'm still going.

[parochial boy]

Well those were my plans, which were completely destroyed by a last minute panic reaction that was beyond what almost any other country has done, and was reversed today (too late obviously) when it became apparent they were serving no purpose.

As for climate change, it's not really relevant to the subject at hand, but my opinion is that it is going to take political action, and that pushing for individual changes in consumer behaviour is really just the political authorities and economic powers palming off the responsibility on to everyone else, knowing fully well that it won't work. I'm not dogmatic about what measures we use, god knows its complicated and affects different people in different ways, but if you think that the left-wing position on climate change comes down to shouting at people to get the train and not eat meat, you might have misunderstood what exactly it is that the left it about.

And it's not "perceptions" and "feelings" for South Africa, that lack of a tourist season for them will have economic consequences, and consequentially human consequences that are especially hard for the often precarious and vulnerable to poverty South Africans whose income depends on it.

It's perception and feelings, because given the outbreak nobody (much fewer) would fly there anyway. Do you have any doubt about it?

My point re:climate: that a "political push" about "consumer behaviour" (like you know - to fly less for instance) would eventually have "economic consequences, and consequentially human consequences" for poor countries. That is exactly the same as with travel bans - good for climate, bad for those poor countries whose economy is dependent on airplane tourism.

You probably doubt that West's "unhealthy" consumption was extremely good for poor countries? Well, in that case, yawn whatever.

I'm not sure what you are on about, are you arguing with me or with yourself?

I said it was complicated, I know it's complicated -  I don't really see what arguing with points I haven't made is supposed to be achieving?

[President Johnson]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

What I find most stunning about Russia is the low vaccination rate. Usually you would expect more people to follow Putin's wishes. May actually be a strong indicator that he's actually not very popular despite his "election results".

[DINGO Joe]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

What I find most stunning about Russia is the low vaccination rate. Usually you would expect more people to follow Putin's wishes. May actually be a strong indicator that he's actually not very popular despite his "election results".

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/why-russia-hasnt-cracked-down-on-covid-19

I read this a week ago.  Whether it's right or not it was an interesting read.

[Omega21]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

What I find most stunning about Russia is the low vaccination rate. Usually you would expect more people to follow Putin's wishes. May actually be a strong indicator that he's actually not very popular despite his "election results".

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/why-russia-hasnt-cracked-down-on-covid-19

I read this a week ago.  Whether it's right or not it was an interesting read.

So, chiming in as someone from the Balkans, and I assume some of these things might be true for Russia as well.

Young people there are generally brasher and less scared about such things. While you might have luck convincing a 20-year-old German to fear a virus with a 0.1-0.2% chance of death (for their age group), you won't have such luck in the Balkans.

Due to our history, people are much more tolerant of risk, and the easiest way to get overthrown would be to implement draconian measures now when younger people know their chances of something happening are extremely low.

This is 24 hours old, from the anti-Rio-Tinto protests in Belgrade, the main highways were blocked:



People are apathetic to corruption, election fixing, nepotism, etc. But try to infringe on their most basic rights or not listen to them on something they really care about, and it might be October 5th all over again.

People want to live, not simply survive.

[Former President tack50]

For now ay least, My plans to travel to Italy in january are still on. Does any italian know what are the prospects for entry there in the short term? I have an italian passport by the way Unless there is an outright travel ban or something, I'm still going.

I am not Italian and honestly I have no idea about Italy's actual covid restrictions on entry. However, if you have an Italian passport you will 100% be let in, I am pretty sure countries always let citizens in. Worst case scenario might behaving to do some sort of quarantine at a hotel. Of course a 14 day quarantine would probably be more than enough to kill a hypothetical trip.

[FrancoAgo]

For now ay least, My plans to travel to Italy in january are still on. Does any italian know what are the prospects for entry there in the short term? I have an italian passport by the way Unless there is an outright travel ban or something, I'm still going.

if you are coming from argentina you have a 10 day quarantine

see here
https://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioContenutiNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?lingua=italiano&id=5411&area=nuovoCoronavirus&menu=vuoto

[CumbrianLefty]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

What I find most stunning about Russia is the low vaccination rate. Usually you would expect more people to follow Putin's wishes. May actually be a strong indicator that he's actually not very popular despite his "election results".

Those who live by disseminating misleading propaganda may also die by it. Literally even, in this case.

[Sir Mohamed]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

What I find most stunning about Russia is the low vaccination rate. Usually you would expect more people to follow Putin's wishes. May actually be a strong indicator that he's actually not very popular despite his "election results".

Those who live by disseminating misleading propaganda may also die by it. Literally even, in this case.

Which is actually hilarious, Putin's own propaganda coming back to haunt him.

[Edu]

if you are coming from argentina you have a 10 day quarantine

see here
https://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioContenutiNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?lingua=italiano&id=5411&area=nuovoCoronavirus&menu=vuoto

Ok, thanks, let's wait an see I guess, no harm for now. Funny that a country, that had for at least the past few months, like 6 times the amount of cases and like 3 or 4 times the amount of deaths that my country, makes me quarantine. Oh well.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

It amazing how orderly people die in Russia, virtually the same number every day.  What a country!

What I find most stunning about Russia is the low vaccination rate. Usually you would expect more people to follow Putin's wishes. May actually be a strong indicator that he's actually not very popular despite his "election results".

Those who live by disseminating misleading propaganda may also die by it. Literally even, in this case.

Which is actually hilarious, Putin's own propaganda coming back to haunt him.

Very hilarious that people die, indeed. But as I already explained, this phenomena is widespread among all ex-Soviet-influenced countries, and has nothing to do with "Putin's own propaganda". 

Ukraine is probably most shining example. They don't like Putin very much, especially in West Ukraine and has access to Moderna/Pfizer vaccines as well as to China's vaccines. Nevertheless their vaccination rate is 31% vs 47% in Russia. And West Ukraine (more Ukrainian speakers = less Russian propaganda) are NOT the leaders on vaccinating. In fact, they are the worst ones.

There are a bunch of "soviet" countries with similar vaccination rate:
Poland 55% (EU-member)
Croatia 54% (EU-member)
Uzbekistan 52%
Azerbaijan 50%
Slovakia 49% (EU-member)
Serbia 47%
Russia 47%
Kazachstan 47%
Montenegro 44%
North Macedonia 42%
Romania 40% (EU-member)
Belarus 38%
Moldova 34%
Georgia 33%
Tajikistan 31%
Ukraine 31%
Armenia 27%
Bulgaria 25% (EU-member)

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/

Like I said, you could've explained it away by saying, that some country didn't have good access to vaccines, which is true. But EU-members has as much as they want to and still there are countries that have similar or worse vaccine rate.

[HisGrace]

Tried to find a thread for this somewhere and couldn't so I figured I'd post it here-

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59577371

"Finand's PM Sorry for Clubbing" is one of those headlines you just have to click on. At least this is not a problem we have had to worry about lately with out geriatric presidents.