Poland considering extreme anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-sex ed laws

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Warsaw, Poland — Polish lawmakers began debating draft laws April 15 that would impose a near-total ban on abortion, criminalize sex education in schools and equate homosexuality with pedophilia, revisiting proposals backed by a Catholic group that were shelved after a popular outcry.

Domestic critics and international human rights organizations say Poland's conservative government is playing foul by bringing the controversial proposals to parliament during the coronavirus pandemic. Mass demonstrations thwarted the bills in the past but would be illegal under a current lockdown that limits gatherings to five people.

The ruling Law and Justice party cited procedural reasons for the timing of the reintroduced measures. Parliament speaker Elzbieta Witek noted that the two bills are citizens' initiatives and said that by examining them, the national legislature is fulfilling its democratic mandate.

"I know that they are controversial," Witek said. "But in a democratic state — and Poland is such a state — citizens' projects must be subjected to proceedings in the Polish parliament, because that's the law."

Law and Justice spokesman Radoslaw Fogiel said he could not predict how the party's lawmakers would vote because they are divided and there was no party discipline on such ideological matters. Voting was scheduled for April 16.

Poland already has some of Europe's strictest anti-abortion laws, and a society deeply divided between traditionalists loyal to the powerful Catholic Church and secular Poles who seek greater liberalization.

[...]

Poland now allows abortion after rape or incest, if the woman's life is threatened or if there is a fetal abnormality. The proposed law would remove the last provision — even for fetuses with no chance of survival — which is the most common reason for legal abortion in the nation of 38 million.

The other bill would criminalize sex education in schools. Its backers say that will fight pedophilia and discourage early promiscuity. Critics say it would create a legal tool to persecute gay people.

The director of Amnesty International in Poland, Draginja Nadazdin, called both bills "draconian."

[...]

Law and Justice has so far tried to please the conservative Church, which wants greater restrictions on abortion. But it doesn't want to alienate large sections of the secular population, and bowed to protests over the previous bills — again brought by a Catholic group. Several party officials stress that these are not the party's proposals, although others back them.

Some believe the ruling party doesn't really want the laws approved, and might mothball them by referring them to committee for further work. Law and Justice spokesman Fogiel said he personally is against "ideological wars" and favors the status quo.

National Catholic Reporter

They're all citizens' initiatives.  Hopefully none of them go anywhere.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

Terrible.

[PSOL]

So how bad has the pandemic been in Poland that they needed to find a distraction?

[kelestian]

Anti-abortion Bill seems logical from pro-life positions.

[afleitch]

I really f-cking hate Catholic reactionaries.

[Tender Branson]

Usually, I would say that Poland needs to be nuked because of it ... but coming from an Austrian it's not such a good idea.

[CumbrianLefty]

People being opposed to sex education is the one that has always seemed most ludicrous to me.

Such types genuinely seem to think it will somehow go away if schools don't talk about it

[Zinneke]

I really f-cking hate Catholic reactionaries.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It should be mentioned, in all fairness, that it's not the government's project, but a "citizens' initiative" (you can submit a legislation if you gathered 100,000 signatures), though the majority is clearly responsible for bringing it for consideration.

To be frank, I don't think it'll pass in the end. It wouldn't be the first time PiS is bringing forward an extreme legislation to have it quietly buried later on in order to divert the public attention. This time from their incompetent and erratic handling of the pandemic and, possibly, from pushing forward with the presidential election in May.

Imposing further restriction regarding abortions is not something PiS is likely to actually risk. For years all polls shows a consistent majority not only against new restrictions, but in favor of liberalizing the existing law, and previous such initiatives saw a strong public mobilization. They don't have as much poltical power as, let's say, Orban, to just ram through whatever they want to.

[PSOL]

So how bad has the pandemic been in Poland that they needed to find a distraction?

Kalwejt, liking my post is not an explanation.

[jaymichaud]

This is legit going back to the 1960s.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is legit going back to the 1960s.

Actually, abortion was totally legal back then.

[afleitch]

This is legit going back to the 1960s.

Actually, abortion was totally legal back then.

Late 80's Eastern Europe; some nations anyway, was potentially on the cusp of something extraordinary, like the GDR court ruling on homosexuality in socialist society. Who knows what epild have happened without 1989.

[CumbrianLefty]

This is legit going back to the 1960s.

Shurely the 60s is where "it all started to go wrong" for these types?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

So how bad has the pandemic been in Poland that they needed to find a distraction?

Kalwejt, liking my post is not an explanation.

Fine, I'll elaborate on this shortly.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

So how bad has the pandemic been in Poland that they needed to find a distraction?

They had to vote on those law proposals as they are legaly bind to do that. Those which about we are talking in this thread were inherited from the previous parliament term and due to the law Sejm had to vote on them before passing of six months from the first Sejm meeting after the elections. PiS generally loosly care about the rules but I guess ignoring those projects would upset more conservative part of the electorate. But on the other hand medling with such delicate issues during the pandemic would be not considered as wise by more moderate segment of their electorate.

So actually tbh PiS kept them until the last possible moment in the "freezer" and now they are back in the parliamentary committees to be brought back in some better moment.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

OK, a delayed answer to PSOL.

The government doesn't seem to really know how the hell to handle a situation such as this. We've had a number of restrictions issued, some plain idiotic (like you couldn't go to a forrest, now rescinded, while large hunting parties were allowed), some extremely confusing. You even had some early relaxation, like allowing religious gatherings being held up to 50 people (before that it was five).

The natural steps to take during such crisis came rather slow. A semi-lockdown was instituted pretty late, and only since April 14 there's a requirement of wearing masks outside. The fact Kaczyński and the PiS bras flagrantly disregarded all restrictions they themselves imposed on April 10 (tenth anniversary of the Russian assassinationSmolensk plane crash) sets a bad example.

Testing is being rather inadequate and you can't really trust the government's statistic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Poland

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

This is legit going back to the 1960s.

Shurely the 60s is where "it all started to go wrong" for these types?

"The 60s" in the Eastern Bloc was not the same phenomenon as "the 60s" in the West.