2020 Redistricting in Pennsylvania

[SevenEleven]

Annoyingly, a fair 17-district map in PA only produces 5 Safe D districts (2 in Philly, MontCo, DelCo, and Pittsburgh.) You may not like it (I certainly don't) but this is what peak fair map performance looks like:

I don't like this map, I'll be honest. A truly fair map starts with an AA Philly district, then applies the same principles we each used on our VA maps. I realize the tradition keeps the Bucks district the way it is, but let's not mistake tradition for equity.

[SevenEleven]

Annoyingly, a fair 17-district map in PA only produces 5 Safe D districts (2 in Philly, MontCo, DelCo, and Pittsburgh.) You may not like it (I certainly don't) but this is what peak fair map performance looks like:

I don't like this map, I'll be honest. A truly fair map starts with an AA Philly district, then applies the same principles we each used on our VA maps. I realize the tradition keeps the Bucks district the way it is, but let's not mistake tradition for equity.

What do you mean by "equity"

Equity is what would make a fair map "fair". I.e., factoring in community integration, minority representation, and metropolitan association.

[SevenEleven]

And Bucks has been a district community like that for decades lol, its not gonna be split so you can have your D hack gerrymander. There's obviously going to be 2 seats in Philly, just play around with them to make one clear black seat. You could maybe push for 2 by using the Delaware black parts but thats a big strech.

Ok, but my argument was that tradition doesn't equate to fairness, so bringing up tradition as a counter-argument is...meaningless.

[SevenEleven]

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

[SevenEleven]

Look, Berks is whole!!

[SevenEleven]

Have you ever actually made a fair map in good faith?

What are you talking about?

[SevenEleven]

Have you ever actually made a fair map in good faith?

What are you talking about?

Dude every single one of your fair maps are D gerrymanders, stop trying to deny it.

Map is literally 8-8-1 in a state that's always nearly tied. How is that a D gerrymander or unfair?

This is what I would do if it were up to me:

I kept Berks whole here just for you, too.

[SevenEleven]

The criticism of my Berks split was absurd given its similarity to the current court drawn map.

[SevenEleven]

Ok the montco lengthwise split like that is a tad ridiculous. Also given the types of criteria the court has put out re counties, doesn't strike me as something they'd do lol.

That was an example of a D gerrymander but following road corridors.

[SevenEleven]

^ All of the maps you draw are D gerrymanders.

8-8-1 is not a D gerrymander.

[SevenEleven]

Oh so now you care about partisan equity?

Where was that in CA?

CA isn't a toss-up state so it's not going to be as even and a D gerrymander would be a lot worse than my map that has multiple toss up districts. Also, the commission has requirements that I followed for CA.

Philly, Bucks, Montco, Delco, Chester and Berks is six districts, going into Lancaster is unnecessary and is an R gerrymander.

[SevenEleven]

"because shoving in downtown Pittsburgh with Greene County is fair"

You can shift some precincts around, it doesn't change anything partisan-wise. And no, downtown Pitt is in the other district.

[SevenEleven]

Oh so now you care about partisan equity?

Where was that in CA?

Someone’s salty about it being possible to draw a very realistic PA map that isn’t a natural Republican gerrymander

That's not realistic and neither is the court going to go that far. They might split Pittsburgh with what Lamb has now but they are not going to connect Greene County to Pittsburgh.

Beaver County is better for a D gerrymander. I drew some clean SWPA lines instead.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Eleven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Dauphin, Columbia, Cumberland, Allegheny, Greene, Forest and Beaver.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

[SevenEleven]

Regardless, @lfromnj if you think my map is a D gerrymander the criticism isn't that it's a D gerrymander but how poorly and inefficiently it is as a D gerrymander, all things considered.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

The goal of my fair map was to keep metros and counties intact. A court drawn map may look different from mine, despite some commonalities with the current court drawn map. A D gerrymander or a court-speculative map would look different imo.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

The goal of my fair map was to keep metros and counties intact. A court drawn map may look different from mine, despite some commonalities with the current court drawn map. A D gerrymander or a court-speculative map would look different imo.

But that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in the number of splits you used. If you have a version of your map with county lines, I can work it out myself. If you have a link to your map on DRA I can look it up there.

I did answer your question, eleven county splits. Some of those I can decrease even, to fit the criteria, if necessary.

The purpose of my map was not to emulate the court, but to draw something that adequately represents both sides of the divided government. As such, minimal change outside of the loss of a seat.

[SevenEleven]

Ten counties are split, even though they are smaller than a district: Berks, Blair, Chester, Dauphin, Franklin, Lancaster, McKean, Mercer, Monroe, and Wayne. These splits affect 24.62% of people in the state. Given 17 districts, the expected number of county splits is 16. The actual number is 15.

[SevenEleven]

Yes because now seperating Pittsburgh from its inner ring suburbs is fair.

Just keep showing everyone how you make "fair" maps.

I'm trying to fix that right now.

[SevenEleven]

Made some modest changes to 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17.

[SevenEleven]

Yes because now seperating Pittsburgh from its inner ring suburbs is fair.

Just keep showing everyone how you make "fair" maps.

PA won't have a fair map though.  It'll have a D-leaning courtmander.  I see nothing unrealistic about separating Pittsburgh from it's suburbs, although I can see why Republicans wouldn't like that

Its pretty clear lfromnj will say anything at any time so long as it happens to benefit the republican party at that moment.

[SevenEleven]

Sev what are you trying to draw?
A  D court map or an actually fair map?

It's a fair map.

[SevenEleven]

D gerrymander Lfromnj keeps asking for.