2020 Redistricting in Pennsylvania

[ProgressiveModerate]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

[Boss_Rahm]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

The judges seemed pretty skeptical of maps that split Pittsburgh. My prediction is the Carter map but we'll see. I expect a decision in the next week or two at most.

[ProgressiveModerate]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

The judges seemed pretty skeptical of maps that split Pittsburgh. My prediction is the Carter map but we'll see. I expect a decision in the next week or two at most.

You have a livestream?

[BoiseBoy]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

The judges seemed pretty skeptical of maps that split Pittsburgh. My prediction is the Carter map but we'll see. I expect a decision in the next week or two at most.

I think the Carter map is the best overall so I'd be happy to see it picked.

[Boss_Rahm]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

The judges seemed pretty skeptical of maps that split Pittsburgh. My prediction is the Carter map but we'll see. I expect a decision in the next week or two at most.

You have a livestream?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1h9eHwgWiU

[ProgressiveModerate]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

The judges seemed pretty skeptical of maps that split Pittsburgh. My prediction is the Carter map but we'll see. I expect a decision in the next week or two at most.

I think the Carter map is the best overall so I'd be happy to see it picked.

Screws over Wild but PA-17 gets a bit better; though tbh seats are gonna have to be pushed out of Philly.

I'm not a fan of long PA-04 either but it's better than a lot of other options

[lfromnj]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

Splitting Pittsburgh totally isn't for partisan purposes. Now if you want to speak of partisan fairness or symettry it doesn't even acheive that because in the 2016 election it was 9D 8 R. I think it was also 9d 8r in the 2020 treasurer/auditor races which Rs' won. Really surprised that hasn't been mentioned.

What Tom Wolf did with Pittsburgh is the same thing DeSantis did to Jacksonville.

[ProgressiveModerate]

IMO Woof's map is the best.

Every other map is either weird and/or has clear partisan intent.

The Carol Ann map seems like a nice least change of sorts.

Splitting Pittsburgh totally isn't for partisan purposes. Now if you want to speak of partisan fairness or symettry it doesn't even acheive that because in the 2016 election it was 9D 8 R. I think it was also 9d 8r in the 2020 treasurer/auditor races which Rs' won. Really surprised that hasn't been mentioned.

What Tom Wolf did with Pittsburgh is the same thing DeSantis did to Jacksonville.

Ye Median seat test on Woof’s map is slightly D favorable but there are naturally more marginal D seats so it sorta cancels out, kinda an inverse of the new MI map; the median seat is to the right of the state but there’s more marginal seats slightly to the right of the state Dems can win.

A lot of fair maps would break 9R-8D on 2020 Pres numbers, like I think that’s just nitpicking at that point. Now if it were 10D-7R, that’s where you start to have a problem.

Also, I don’t think you can compare the Pittsburg to Jacksonville. Firstly, Pittsburgh metro is slightly bigger than Jacksonville. 2ndly, Pittsburg geography is extremely different.

If you create a Pittsburg “Pack”, you’re either gonna need a weird C shaped or doughnut suburban seat or 2 suburban seat that connects suburbs to areas they have nothing to do with. While I agree that Pittsburg split isn’t ideal and is a flaw of Wolfs map, I don’t see why it’s a make or break as Pittsburg metro should have 2 seats anyways. The best way to handle Jacksonville imo would be a seat purely in Duval that’s like 35% black, and a seat that connects the more conservative white suburbs around it. While the Black community in Pittsburg should be kept whole, it isn’t enough to guide the shape of an entire seat by itself.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why would the Court limit itself to the options plaintiffs presented, instead of letting Persily draw his own map like in 2018? That seems like it would be better than picking from a bunch of maps drawn by partisan actors NJ-style.

[lfromnj]

Why would the Court limit itself to the options plaintiffs presented, instead of letting Persily draw his own map like in 2018? That seems like it would be better than picking from a bunch of maps drawn by partisan actors NJ-style.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NilesGApol/status/1494905565620977665

Why have a special master draw a Democratic gerrymander when you have plenty to choose from ? The fact that freshman is even a serious plan is lol.

[Roll Roons]

The map on the right burned my eyes out.

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

Looks like Houlahan will be ok in 2022. If she didn't get all of Chester I think Costello would have knocked her off

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

I don't know why they're trying to shore up Cartwright at the expense of Wild though. The former is likely screwed no matter what

[lfromnj]

I don't know why they're trying to shore up Cartwright at the expense of Wild though. The former is likely screwed no matter what

National Democrats don't see it that way.

[politicallefty]

That one on the left has some striking similarities to the map I drew back in November. I mean seriously, wow. I think mapmakers are stealing my ideas, lmao. But that's fine. I put some serious time into these maps.

[...]



https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::242d40ca-00f3-4ca9-80dc-a6a115989228

[...]

EDIT (Comparison for reference):

[Antonio the Sixth]

The Carter map is reasonable. It makes some D-friendly decisions on the margins, just like the Persily map, but not at the expense of CoIs. I agree that it's as good as any Persily redraw would likely be.

The Gressman map definitely veers into soft D gerrymander territory, though.

[Torie]

The court has 4 pretty hard core Dem partisans so it may not matter, but the court in 2018 in the League of Women's Voters case (the same 4 hard cores provided the votes for that decision 4-3, with one concurrence that thought only truly hideous gerrymanders should be banned), was very hostile to gratuitous county and municipal chops, so I would be surprised if the court goes for such chops, particularly one as noticeable as Pittsburgh, when it can get its proportional map without doing such chops.

[lfromnj]

The court has 4 pretty hard core Dem partisans so it may not matter, but the court in 2018 in the League of Women's Voters case (the same 4 hard cores provided the votes for that decision 4-3, with one concurrence that thought only truly hideous gerrymanders should be banned), was very hostile to gratuitous county and municipal chops, so I would be surprised if the court goes for such chops, particularly one as noticeable as Pittsburgh, when it can get its proportional map with doing such chops.

Who was the concurring dem?

edit: Justice Baer.

[Torie]

The court has 4 pretty hard core Dem partisans so it may not matter, but the court in 2018 in the League of Women's Voters case (the same 4 hard cores provided the votes for that decision 4-3, with one concurrence that thought only truly hideous gerrymanders should be banned), was very hostile to gratuitous county and municipal chops, so I would be surprised if the court goes for such chops, particularly one as noticeable as Pittsburgh, when it can get its proportional map with doing such chops.

Who was the concurring dem?

edit: Justice Baer.

It was fascinating listening to the Dem lawyers that muni lines are a community of interest except when they are not, and COI's may be smaller or larger. Aside from race, and I guess metro areas as a whole (town v country), I have trouble perceiving what that is other than 'values," aka partisan preference.   And the Dem lawyers did not enlighten me. It is a test drive for the same argument to be made in NYS, arguing the map is "fair" due to hewing to COI's (Dems?), even though it deems Pubs to be about as desirable as covid.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Tbf, the Gressman map isn't that bad outside of Pittsburg, but ye that Pitts config is disgusting.

[Tekken_Guy]

Tbf, the Gressman map isn't that bad outside of Pittsburg, but ye that Pitts config is disgusting.

The splitting of Dauphin and the draw of the Bucks seat are pretty awful.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Tbf, the Gressman map isn't that bad outside of Pittsburg, but ye that Pitts config is disgusting.

The splitting of Dauphin and the draw of the Bucks seat are pretty awful.

Fair enough they didn't handle Harrisburg area the best, but I think the Bucks County being kept whole rule is overrated. To me, it seems like the 1rst becomes more higher education suburban district while a lot of the Working Class parts closer to Philly are put into the 2nd. What's more of an issue IMO is how long the 4th district is but a lot of maps have the long 4th.

[lfromnj]

Tbf, the Gressman map isn't that bad outside of Pittsburg, but ye that Pitts config is disgusting.

The splitting of Dauphin and the draw of the Bucks seat are pretty awful.

Fair enough they didn't handle Harrisburg area the best, but I think the Bucks County being kept whole rule is overrated. To me, it seems like the 1rst becomes more higher education suburban district while a lot of the Working Class parts closer to Philly are put into the 2nd. What's more of an issue IMO is how long the 4th district is but a lot of maps have the long 4th.

If you are wiling to split Bucks then there is no excuse to how they treated Berks which is to protect Houlahan from any competition whatsoever.

[Tekken_Guy]

Tbf, the Gressman map isn't that bad outside of Pittsburg, but ye that Pitts config is disgusting.

The splitting of Dauphin and the draw of the Bucks seat are pretty awful.

Fair enough they didn't handle Harrisburg area the best, but I think the Bucks County being kept whole rule is overrated. To me, it seems like the 1rst becomes more higher education suburban district while a lot of the Working Class parts closer to Philly are put into the 2nd. What's more of an issue IMO is how long the 4th district is but a lot of maps have the long 4th.

If you are wiling to split Bucks then there is no excuse to how they treated Berks which is to protect Houlahan from any competition whatsoever.

In theory even with all of Chester, Houlahan is probably vulnerable if her seat went into Lancaster instead of Berks.

[Boss_Rahm]

Why would the Court limit itself to the options plaintiffs presented, instead of letting Persily draw his own map like in 2018? That seems like it would be better than picking from a bunch of maps drawn by partisan actors NJ-style.

The Court wants a map in place quickly to avoid needing to change the date of the primary.