2020 Redistricting in Pennsylvania

[SevenEleven]

Oh so now you care about partisan equity?

Where was that in CA?

CA isn't a toss-up state so it's not going to be as even and a D gerrymander would be a lot worse than my map that has multiple toss up districts. Also, the commission has requirements that I followed for CA.

Philly, Bucks, Montco, Delco, Chester and Berks is six districts, going into Lancaster is unnecessary and is an R gerrymander.

[lfromnj]

"because shoving in downtown Pittsburgh with Greene County is fair"

[SevenEleven]

"because shoving in downtown Pittsburgh with Greene County is fair"

You can shift some precincts around, it doesn't change anything partisan-wise. And no, downtown Pitt is in the other district.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Oh so now you care about partisan equity?

Where was that in CA?

Someone’s salty about it being possible to draw a very realistic PA map that isn’t a natural Republican gerrymander

[lfromnj]

Oh so now you care about partisan equity?

Where was that in CA?

Someone’s salty about it being possible to draw a very realistic PA map that isn’t a natural Republican gerrymander

That's not realistic and neither is the court going to go that far. They might split Pittsburgh with what Lamb has now but they are not going to connect Greene County to Pittsburgh.

[SevenEleven]

Oh so now you care about partisan equity?

Where was that in CA?

Someone’s salty about it being possible to draw a very realistic PA map that isn’t a natural Republican gerrymander

That's not realistic and neither is the court going to go that far. They might split Pittsburgh with what Lamb has now but they are not going to connect Greene County to Pittsburgh.

Beaver County is better for a D gerrymander. I drew some clean SWPA lines instead.

[muon2]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

For the record the number of chops in a county is the number of districts in that county above one. The term is an Atlas redistricting meme from the last redistricting cycle.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Eleven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Dauphin, Columbia, Cumberland, Allegheny, Greene, Forest and Beaver.

[muon2]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

[SevenEleven]

Regardless, @lfromnj if you think my map is a D gerrymander the criticism isn't that it's a D gerrymander but how poorly and inefficiently it is as a D gerrymander, all things considered.

[muon2]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

The goal of my fair map was to keep metros and counties intact. A court drawn map may look different from mine, despite some commonalities with the current court drawn map. A D gerrymander or a court-speculative map would look different imo.

[muon2]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

The goal of my fair map was to keep metros and counties intact. A court drawn map may look different from mine, despite some commonalities with the current court drawn map. A D gerrymander or a court-speculative map would look different imo.

But that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in the number of splits you used. If you have a version of your map with county lines, I can work it out myself. If you have a link to your map on DRA I can look it up there.

[Boss_Rahm]

Here's a 9-7-1 D map with 16 county chops. Absolutely no way this gets drawn, but wanted to make the best D map I could. The key is rearranging NEPA into a Lackawanna-Monroe-Northampton district and a Lehigh-Berks district.
https://davesredistricting.org/join/60d2108f-98b7-4632-9e31-d278769cabbf

[SevenEleven]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

The goal of my fair map was to keep metros and counties intact. A court drawn map may look different from mine, despite some commonalities with the current court drawn map. A D gerrymander or a court-speculative map would look different imo.

But that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in the number of splits you used. If you have a version of your map with county lines, I can work it out myself. If you have a link to your map on DRA I can look it up there.

I did answer your question, eleven county splits. Some of those I can decrease even, to fit the criteria, if necessary.

The purpose of my map was not to emulate the court, but to draw something that adequately represents both sides of the divided government. As such, minimal change outside of the loss of a seat.

[muon2]

LOL ^ what a hack map.
That split of Berks/Pittsburgh and Alleghany is a meme.

Literally everyone but you agrees that there should be a SW westmoreland/Fayette/Greene/Washington district with 20k added.

Pittsburgh is split by the river except for about 40k of pop needed.

Berks is split so Chester and Delaware can stay whole.

How many chops are there in total? You didn't show county lines on the state map, and county chops are a criteria the court used with the special master.

Seven counties are part of more than one district.

Philly, MontCo, Berks, Monroe, Allegheny, Greene, and Beaver.

Sorry, I was late with my edit to define my terms. It's not the number of counties chopped that matters, it's the the total number of districts in excess of one in those counties that determines the number of chops.

Is that the same criteria the court uses, or a personal preference?

The PA Supreme Court opinion specifically references the number of divisions within counties and municipalities, and they cite examples where some jurisdictions were divided over many districts. It wasn't just the number of counties that were split that mattered. The special master followed that guidance in drawing the replacement plan. His method was consistent with my definition of chops and seeking to minimize them.

The goal of my fair map was to keep metros and counties intact. A court drawn map may look different from mine, despite some commonalities with the current court drawn map. A D gerrymander or a court-speculative map would look different imo.

But that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in the number of splits you used. If you have a version of your map with county lines, I can work it out myself. If you have a link to your map on DRA I can look it up there.

I did answer your question, eleven county splits. Some of those I can decrease even, to fit the criteria, if necessary.

The purpose of my map was not to emulate the court, but to draw something that adequately represents both sides of the divided government. As such, minimal change outside of the loss of a seat.

What you answered is the number of counties split. What PA also requires is a list of which districts split those counties. That becomes relevant if it is more than 2 districts in a county.

For example Monroe splits between 2 districts, 7 and 8, so it is just 1 chop. Philadelphia has at least 3 districts, and maybe 4 on your map: 2, 3, 4, and 6. That equals 3 chops if those 4 districts are in the county.

[Former President tack50]

Looking at Sev's map, I guess that is more of a "best case scenario for Dems in court" than anything else.

Much of the map is acceptable or tolerable, but there are some complaints I'd have:

1) The Pittsburgh area split isn't "right". You shouldn't split the city, and there should be a southwestern district

2) Districts 2, 5 and 6 should be changed to make them less elongated.

[muon2]

Here's part of the direction from the PA Supreme Court to the special master drawing the map.

c.A report detailing the number of counties split by each district and split in the plan as a whole.
d.A report detailing the number of municipalities split by each district and the plan as a whole.

Both c. and d. require two parts: a list of splits associated with each individual district and a list of splits for the state as a whole. That's equivalent to asking (as some other states do) which geographic units are split and by which districts.

Given the nature of the litigation that led to the current plan, I would expect that any plan created for the next decade will have those lists. Any plan next year is likely to be reviewed by a court, and since the Supreme Court asked for those lists, so will a lower court. Any plan that has more than the minimum necessary in those lists is going to have to justify them, or expect that litigation will focus on the excess splits in that plan.

[SevenEleven]

Ten counties are split, even though they are smaller than a district: Berks, Blair, Chester, Dauphin, Franklin, Lancaster, McKean, Mercer, Monroe, and Wayne. These splits affect 24.62% of people in the state. Given 17 districts, the expected number of county splits is 16. The actual number is 15.

[lfromnj]

Yes because now seperating Pittsburgh from its inner ring suburbs is fair.

Just keep showing everyone how you make "fair" maps.

[SevenEleven]

Yes because now seperating Pittsburgh from its inner ring suburbs is fair.

Just keep showing everyone how you make "fair" maps.

I'm trying to fix that right now.

[SevenEleven]

Made some modest changes to 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17.

[Sol]

Here's a slight-dem favoring incumbent protection gerrymander which might have a chance of happening, given that Dems have a slight upper hand. Houlahan and Lamb are shorn up, while Cartwright and Wild are thrown together in an extremely fair fight safe D district, as discussed above (literally about half of each person's seat).

Additionally, I made a district which splits Bucks County (!) which shores up Fitzpatrick.

Sorry for not including photos; not posting on my usual computer so I'm trying to "leave no trace."

[lfromnj]

Here's a slight-dem favoring incumbent protection gerrymander which might have a chance of happening, given that Dems have a slight upper hand. Houlahan and Lamb are shorn up, while Cartwright and Wild are thrown together in an extremely fair fight safe D district (literally about half of each person's seat).

Additionally, I made a district which splits Bucks County (!) which shores up Fitzpatrick.

Sorry for not including photos; not posting on my usual computer so I'm trying to "leave no trace."

Still don't think Fitz will want Bucks split especially as the lower part was barely to the left of the county anyway.

Other than that East PA is fine for your goals. I guess the main argument will be with Lamb's district?

Also remove the city of York from the Harrisburg district and give it to Smucker if you are going incumbent protection.