Iraq/Iran Megathread - Latest: U.S. to close Baghdad embassy

[7,052,770]

Trump just threatened to sanction Iraq for being a sovereign country who refuse to host our troops anymore, and have every right to make that decision.

I don't see how you can defend this.

It's to late to condemn Trump for anyone who hasn't already without looking like a fool (in their own eyes, not ours). They're pot committed at this point.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1213979496065458182

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Once again we're violating the sovereignty of another country because our so-called "President" can't handle criticism and things not going his way.

[ProudModerate2]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1213980369776762880

"... an attack on a cultural site would violate several international treaties and would likely be considered a war crime."

https://us.cnn.com/2020/01/05/world/trump-iran-cultural-sites-war-crime/index.html

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump is going to sanction Iraq for the recent parliamentary vote

So about that Christmas gift Fuzzy...

This is going to s*** real quick

So is that what you're rooting for?

You've expressed an interest in running for office from my state in these pages.  I think that anyone who runs for public office, regardless of party, ought to (A) have a view of America as a GOOD nation and a force for Good in the World, and (B) desire that the interests of AMERICA be served, in both domestic and foreign affairs.

One minimum standard I have in terms of considering whether one's viewpoint is legitimately critical or anti-American is whether or not one considers Trump to be the villain in all of this.  One can criticize the practicality of the act (it does invite blowback, and that's a fair point).  One can question the use of War Powers (although I fail to see how Trump violated either the Constitution or the War Powers Act based on his actions to date).  But to suggest that this is a rogue act of assassination  against a foreign government leader is ridiculous; the man was a terrorist who fostered terrorism and fostered attacks on our Embassy.  The drone attack occurred in Iraq, and not in Iran, and was in response to an attack on OUR Embassy.  We have every right to protect our Embassies, and that right  includes actions such as this that are carried out to provide deterrance.  

So if you believe Trump acted in error, even to the point that he should be removed from office, that's fine and good.  But if you're casting him as a villain, then I question your desires for America.  There is a difference in posture, and there is a difference between a sincere desire to see your Country (America) be set right and seeing your Country (America) as a rogue state.  I personally find the latter viewpoint downright delusional, but this is Atlas, and opinions appear to vary.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump just threatened to sanction Iraq for being a sovereign country who refuse to host our troops anymore, and have every right to make that decision.


I don't see how you can defend this.

I do not defend this, if it comes to this.

I would write off our losses.  I wouldn't lift a finger to help them again, however.

[PSOL]

Trump just threatened to sanction Iraq for being a sovereign country who refuse to host our troops anymore, and have every right to make that decision.


I don't see how you can defend this.

I do not defend this, if it comes to this.

I would write off our losses.  I wouldn't lift a finger to help them again, however.

Help them? Again?

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Trump is going to sanction Iraq for the recent parliamentary vote

So about that Christmas gift Fuzzy...

This is going to s*** real quick

So is that what you're rooting for?

You've expressed an interest in running for office from my state in these pages.  I think that anyone who runs for public office, regardless of party, ought to (A) have a view of America as a GOOD nation and a force for Good in the World, and (B) desire that the interests of AMERICA be served, in both domestic and foreign affairs.

One minimum standard I have in terms of considering whether one's viewpoint is legitimately critical or anti-American is whether or not one considers Trump to be the villain in all of this.  One can criticize the practicality of the act (it does invite blowback, and that's a fair point).  One can question the use of War Powers (although I fail to see how Trump violated either the Constitution or the War Powers Act based on his actions to date).  But to suggest that this is a rogue act of assassination  against a foreign government leader is ridiculous; the man was a terrorist who fostered terrorism and fostered attacks on our Embassy.  The drone attack occurred in Iraq, and not in Iran, and was in response to an attack on OUR Embassy.  We have every right to protect our Embassies, and that right  includes actions such as this that are carried out to provide deterrance.  

So if you believe Trump acted in error, even to the point that he should be removed from office, that's fine and good.  But if you're casting him as a villain, then I question your desires for America.  There is a difference in posture, and there is a difference between a sincere desire to see your Country (America) be set right and seeing your Country (America) as a rogue state.  I personally find the latter viewpoint downright delusional, but this is Atlas, and opinions appear to vary.

LMFAO you're sincerely thinking I am rooting for this? The confirmation bias is real with this. Yes Trump is a villain and I have no shame in saying that, any sane person should, but go ahead question my loyalty to America like you have done to me before. I know the reason why you're doing this and it should be obvious to anyone here as to why you're doing that.

All evidence in modern times suggest the United States isn't a force for good, we turned Libya into a failed state by bombing its leader out of office and allowing Da'esh and other groups to take over. We tried to overthrow the Syrian regime and it ended up badly, Iraq isn't going well, and now we're escalating tensions between the 2nd strongest military power in the Middle East. You can't deny this fact fuzzy. Me criticizing and saying American foreign policy doesn't mean I'm Anti-American so qute the bullsh**t please.

There is no evidence for an attack imminent, where is the evidence?

[7,052,770]

Trump is the villain. I love America and see us as a fundamentally good nation, but sadly Trump disagrees with me on both of those things.

[ProudModerate2]

Trump is going to sanction Iraq for the recent parliamentary vote

So about that Christmas gift Fuzzy...

This is going to s*** real quick

So is that what you're rooting for?

You've expressed an interest in running for office from my state in these pages.  I think that anyone who runs for public office, regardless of party, ought to (A) have a view of America as a GOOD nation and a force for Good in the World, and (B) desire that the interests of AMERICA be served, in both domestic and foreign affairs.

One minimum standard I have in terms of considering whether one's viewpoint is legitimately critical or anti-American is whether or not one considers Trump to be the villain in all of this.  One can criticize the practicality of the act (it does invite blowback, and that's a fair point).  One can question the use of War Powers (although I fail to see how Trump violated either the Constitution or the War Powers Act based on his actions to date).  But to suggest that this is a rogue act of assassination  against a foreign government leader is ridiculous; the man was a terrorist who fostered terrorism and fostered attacks on our Embassy.  The drone attack occurred in Iraq, and not in Iran, and was in response to an attack on OUR Embassy.  We have every right to protect our Embassies, and that right  includes actions such as this that are carried out to provide deterrance.  

So if you believe Trump acted in error, even to the point that he should be removed from office, that's fine and good.  But if you're casting him as a villain, then I question your desires for America.  There is a difference in posture, and there is a difference between a sincere desire to see your Country (America) be set right and seeing your Country (America) as a rogue state.  I personally find the latter viewpoint downright delusional, but this is Atlas, and opinions appear to vary.

trump has demonstrated to be "a villain" in so many situations over the last 3-1/2 to 4 years.
There is nothing new here. (Like mocking a disabled reporter or insinuating that a deceased Congressman is in Hell.)
Do you see above, where he is threatening to directly strike and destroy cultural sites in Iran? This is against international law and can be a subject to international war crimes.
What do you call someone who says (or will commit to doing) something like this? An angel or villain?

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

[Almost Anyone But Biden Or Trump (ABBoT but not Greg Abbott)]

Trump seriously needs to be 25th Amendmented immediately.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

This guy is an adviser to President Rouhani:
https://twitter.com/hesamodin1/status/1213752427662446592

If only we could just give Trump to the Iranians and stop all of this madness.

[fhtagn]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

You might want to cut the persecution complex for a sec cause I highly doubt Fuzzy questioning your loyalty has anything to do with the color of your skin or your nationality.

It probably has more to do with the fact that you support the Squad than literally anything else.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump is going to sanction Iraq for the recent parliamentary vote

So about that Christmas gift Fuzzy...

This is going to s*** real quick

So is that what you're rooting for?

You've expressed an interest in running for office from my state in these pages.  I think that anyone who runs for public office, regardless of party, ought to (A) have a view of America as a GOOD nation and a force for Good in the World, and (B) desire that the interests of AMERICA be served, in both domestic and foreign affairs.

One minimum standard I have in terms of considering whether one's viewpoint is legitimately critical or anti-American is whether or not one considers Trump to be the villain in all of this.  One can criticize the practicality of the act (it does invite blowback, and that's a fair point).  One can question the use of War Powers (although I fail to see how Trump violated either the Constitution or the War Powers Act based on his actions to date).  But to suggest that this is a rogue act of assassination  against a foreign government leader is ridiculous; the man was a terrorist who fostered terrorism and fostered attacks on our Embassy.  The drone attack occurred in Iraq, and not in Iran, and was in response to an attack on OUR Embassy.  We have every right to protect our Embassies, and that right  includes actions such as this that are carried out to provide deterrance.  

So if you believe Trump acted in error, even to the point that he should be removed from office, that's fine and good.  But if you're casting him as a villain, then I question your desires for America.  There is a difference in posture, and there is a difference between a sincere desire to see your Country (America) be set right and seeing your Country (America) as a rogue state.  I personally find the latter viewpoint downright delusional, but this is Atlas, and opinions appear to vary.

LMFAO you're sincerely thinking I am rooting for this? The confirmation bias is real with this. Yes Trump is a villain and I have no shame in saying that, any sane person should, but go ahead question my loyalty to America like you have done to me before. I know the reason why you're doing this and it should be obvious to anyone here as to why you're doing that.

All evidence in modern times suggest the United States isn't a force for good, we turned Libya into a failed state by bombing its leader out of office and allowing Da'esh and other groups to take over. We tried to overthrow the Syrian regime and it ended up badly, Iraq isn't going well, and now we're escalating tensions between the 2nd strongest military power in the Middle East. You can't deny this fact fuzzy. Me criticizing and saying American foreign policy doesn't mean I'm Anti-American so qute the bullsh**t please.

There is no evidence for an attack imminent, where is the evidence?

Criticizing American foreign policy does not make one anti-American.  Indeed, it is part of the democratic process.

Conducting critiques from the point of view that America is a "Rogue State" is another matter.  You appear to not share that point of view, but others have expressed this exact sentiment.  Such a sentiment implies a desire for the rogue to be punished; how could it not?

We will likely disagree as to the standard for "imminent".  I consider Solemani's death a reasonable response for launching attacks on our Embassy.  Planning attacks; that's what Solemani did.  The World is better off without him, and the people mourning his death are either evil or deluded.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

You might want to cut the persecution complex for a sec cause I highly doubt Fuzzy questioning your loyalty has anything to do with the color of your skin or your nationality.

It probably has more to do with the fact that you support the Squad than literally anything else.

I mean if you want to live in that fantasy bubble of yours that's fine

[OSR stands with Israel]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

Fuzzy doesn’t single you out , he has been much harder on posters such as Harry than you .

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Trump is going to sanction Iraq for the recent parliamentary vote

So about that Christmas gift Fuzzy...

This is going to s*** real quick

So is that what you're rooting for?

You've expressed an interest in running for office from my state in these pages.  I think that anyone who runs for public office, regardless of party, ought to (A) have a view of America as a GOOD nation and a force for Good in the World, and (B) desire that the interests of AMERICA be served, in both domestic and foreign affairs.

One minimum standard I have in terms of considering whether one's viewpoint is legitimately critical or anti-American is whether or not one considers Trump to be the villain in all of this.  One can criticize the practicality of the act (it does invite blowback, and that's a fair point).  One can question the use of War Powers (although I fail to see how Trump violated either the Constitution or the War Powers Act based on his actions to date).  But to suggest that this is a rogue act of assassination  against a foreign government leader is ridiculous; the man was a terrorist who fostered terrorism and fostered attacks on our Embassy.  The drone attack occurred in Iraq, and not in Iran, and was in response to an attack on OUR Embassy.  We have every right to protect our Embassies, and that right  includes actions such as this that are carried out to provide deterrance.  

So if you believe Trump acted in error, even to the point that he should be removed from office, that's fine and good.  But if you're casting him as a villain, then I question your desires for America.  There is a difference in posture, and there is a difference between a sincere desire to see your Country (America) be set right and seeing your Country (America) as a rogue state.  I personally find the latter viewpoint downright delusional, but this is Atlas, and opinions appear to vary.

LMFAO you're sincerely thinking I am rooting for this? The confirmation bias is real with this. Yes Trump is a villain and I have no shame in saying that, any sane person should, but go ahead question my loyalty to America like you have done to me before. I know the reason why you're doing this and it should be obvious to anyone here as to why you're doing that.

All evidence in modern times suggest the United States isn't a force for good, we turned Libya into a failed state by bombing its leader out of office and allowing Da'esh and other groups to take over. We tried to overthrow the Syrian regime and it ended up badly, Iraq isn't going well, and now we're escalating tensions between the 2nd strongest military power in the Middle East. You can't deny this fact fuzzy. Me criticizing and saying American foreign policy doesn't mean I'm Anti-American so qute the bullsh**t please.

There is no evidence for an attack imminent, where is the evidence?

Criticizing American foreign policy does not make one anti-American.  Indeed, it is part of the democratic process.

Conducting critiques from the point of view that America is a "Rogue State" is another matter.  You appear to not share that point of view, but others have expressed this exact sentiment.  Such a sentiment implies a desire for the rogue to be punished; how could it not?

We will likely disagree as to the standard for "imminent".  I consider Solemani's death a reasonable response for launching attacks on our Embassy.  Planning attacks; that's what Solemani did.  The World is better off without him, and the people mourning his death are either evil or deluded.

Where is the evidence he was planning any attacks? Show me one shred of evidence he was planning anything? No one showed any evidence and this screams to me another WMD situation just to please the neocons

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Trump is going to sanction Iraq for the recent parliamentary vote

So about that Christmas gift Fuzzy...

This is going to s*** real quick

So is that what you're rooting for?

You've expressed an interest in running for office from my state in these pages.  I think that anyone who runs for public office, regardless of party, ought to (A) have a view of America as a GOOD nation and a force for Good in the World, and (B) desire that the interests of AMERICA be served, in both domestic and foreign affairs.

No. One ought to believe that his or her country should be a good nation and a force for good in the world, and work to help make it possible. You're speaking like you believe that America can't do wrong, which is utter nonsense. There are no inherently good or bad nations. I'm not here to argue whether the United States overall did more good or the opposite (and I'm actually leaning toward the former), but America has its' share of bad deeds and there are people who view its' present policy as destructive and destabilizing. It doesn't make them any less patriotic than you. If anything the willingness to contest and change what you see as wrong with your country is patriotic by a very definition.


As of the Embassy thing, it's being twisted and blown out of proportion. The notion that if the U.S. military hadn't take Soleimani out, the Embassy would be overran or something is... pretty creative at best. And the aftermath of Soleimani assassination hardly made the situation in Iraq and in the region any safer, so please, can we put this weird notion aside?

Also, the argument that "it didn't happen in Iran" is pretty ridiculous. Soleimani was a guest of the Iraqi government at that time and if anything the U.S. committed an act of open war against two countries in that one strike.

[ProudModerate2]

... The World is better off without him, and the people mourning his death are either evil or deluded.

You have been watching too much Fox News.
I cant believe even you are parroting the "better off without him" line-of-defense for this Debacle trump has put us in (then again, maybe I shouldn't be too surprised).

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

No one here has yet to provide evidence that Soleimani was preparing an attack.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

You're not the one I would primarily think about here.  One poster explicitly posted his belief that America was a Rogue Nation in this thread, and some others have advanced this sentiment in other threads.  

But I do wish to ask what you think of others that take that particular tack.  That's not an unfair question.  

[7,052,770]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

You might want to cut the persecution complex for a sec cause I highly doubt Fuzzy questioning your loyalty has anything to do with the color of your skin or your nationality.

It probably has more to do with the fact that you support the Squad than literally anything else.

A clear majority of red and maroon avatars on this forum support the "Squad" though. 🤔

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I mean if Fuzzy wants to single me out and question my loyalty that's fine, but I think it should be obvious as to why he's doing it when you look at me compared to others posters on this forum.

You might want to cut the persecution complex for a sec cause I highly doubt Fuzzy questioning your loyalty has anything to do with the color of your skin or your nationality.

It probably has more to do with the fact that you support the Squad than literally anything else.

A clear majority of red and maroon avatars on this forum support the "Squad" though. 🤔

[Cinemark]

*sigh*
This thread was a useful place to find up to date news on whats going on.