🇦🇹 Austrian Elections & Politics 6.0 - Upper Austria election: 26 Sept. 2021
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  🇦🇹 Austrian Elections & Politics 6.0 - Upper Austria election: 26 Sept. 2021
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Author Topic: 🇦🇹 Austrian Elections & Politics 6.0 - Upper Austria election: 26 Sept. 2021  (Read 73062 times)
Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #525 on: October 20, 2020, 09:09:06 AM »

Yes, and the 1st District is also much slower to diversify than other districts of Vienna - which have seen an influx of immigrants from all over the World.

The population in the 1st has actually declined a lot over the decades and is pretty stagnant lately, while others are back to their 1900 levels.

While you have people from Africa and the Middle-East and Eastern Europe settle in the 10th and 11th districts and R-5H (where you can still get apartments for 10€ the square meter), you will mostly see upper-middle-class immigrants from Germany, Switzerland or Russia settle in the first, because they can afford to do so (5.000€/squre meter).

And those wealthy immigrants from the EU and Russia etc. are by definition more ÖVP+Green+NEOS voting, instead of SPÖ+FPÖ+Strache ...

Did you miss some zeroes in the first price you mentioned? You'd be talking about apartments of 100 m² costing less than a small motorcycle lmao

Also, 5000€ per m² sounds pretty low for the poshest and upper-class-est district in all Austria.

That’s monthly rent prices, not purchase prices.

You can still rent a 100m² apartment for about 1.000€ per month in some of those residential middle-class districts. Purchase prices: ca. 100.000 to 300.000€.

Vienna remains one of the most affordable cities for working-class families. The prices there are only a handful of what they are in Munich, London or Paris.

On the other hand, you are easily spending a few to several thousand €s a month to rent a same-sized luxury apartment in the inner-city. Purchase prices: 1 million € or more.

Aaaaaaaaah OK

Now it all makes sense. Sorry, I just never talk in terms of rent prices, because it isn't part of my personal life really.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #526 on: October 20, 2020, 09:16:45 AM »

When are the "final" final results expected?
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parochial boy
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« Reply #527 on: October 20, 2020, 09:30:37 AM »

Yes, and the 1st District is also much slower to diversify than other districts of Vienna - which have seen an influx of immigrants from all over the World.

The population in the 1st has actually declined a lot over the decades and is pretty stagnant lately, while others are back to their 1900 levels.

While you have people from Africa and the Middle-East and Eastern Europe settle in the 10th and 11th districts and R-5H (where you can still get apartments for 10€ the square meter), you will mostly see upper-middle-class immigrants from Germany, Switzerland or Russia settle in the first, because they can afford to do so (5.000€/squre meter).

And those wealthy immigrants from the EU and Russia etc. are by definition more ÖVP+Green+NEOS voting, instead of SPÖ+FPÖ+Strache ...

Did you miss some zeroes in the first price you mentioned? You'd be talking about apartments of 100 m² costing less than a small motorcycle lmao

Also, 5000€ per m² sounds pretty low for the poshest and upper-class-est district in all Austria.

That’s monthly rent prices, not purchase prices.

You can still rent a 100m² apartment for about 1.000€ per month in some of those residential middle-class districts. Purchase prices: ca. 100.000 to 300.000€.

Vienna remains one of the most affordable cities for working-class families. The prices there are only a handful of what they are in Munich, London or Paris.

On the other hand, you are easily spending a few to several thousand €s a month to rent a same-sized luxury apartment in the inner-city. Purchase prices: 1 million € or more.

Aaaaaaaaah OK

Now it all makes sense. Sorry, I just never talk in terms of rent prices, because it isn't part of my personal life really.

As a general thing, home ownership rates are much lower, and consequently the number of people renting is much higher, in the German speaking countries than elsewhere. In big cities that is even more the case. So in a city like Vienna, you have around 80-90% of people renting their homes. Which is why people tend there tend to automatically assume prices as meaning rent prices rather than purchase ones.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #528 on: October 20, 2020, 09:33:24 AM »

Yes, and the 1st District is also much slower to diversify than other districts of Vienna - which have seen an influx of immigrants from all over the World.

The population in the 1st has actually declined a lot over the decades and is pretty stagnant lately, while others are back to their 1900 levels.

While you have people from Africa and the Middle-East and Eastern Europe settle in the 10th and 11th districts and R-5H (where you can still get apartments for 10€ the square meter), you will mostly see upper-middle-class immigrants from Germany, Switzerland or Russia settle in the first, because they can afford to do so (5.000€/squre meter).

And those wealthy immigrants from the EU and Russia etc. are by definition more ÖVP+Green+NEOS voting, instead of SPÖ+FPÖ+Strache ...

Did you miss some zeroes in the first price you mentioned? You'd be talking about apartments of 100 m² costing less than a small motorcycle lmao

Also, 5000€ per m² sounds pretty low for the poshest and upper-class-est district in all Austria.

That’s monthly rent prices, not purchase prices.

You can still rent a 100m² apartment for about 1.000€ per month in some of those residential middle-class districts. Purchase prices: ca. 100.000 to 300.000€.

Vienna remains one of the most affordable cities for working-class families. The prices there are only a handful of what they are in Munich, London or Paris.

On the other hand, you are easily spending a few to several thousand €s a month to rent a same-sized luxury apartment in the inner-city. Purchase prices: 1 million € or more.

Aaaaaaaaah OK

Now it all makes sense. Sorry, I just never talk in terms of rent prices, because it isn't part of my personal life really.

As a general thing, home ownership rates are much lower, and consequently the number of people renting is much higher, in the German speaking countries than elsewhere. In big cities that is even more the case. So in a city like Vienna, you have around 80-90% of people renting their homes. Which is why people tend there tend to automatically assume prices as meaning rent prices rather than purchase ones.

I understand. I remember seeing some graphics about homeownership rates in Europe something like one month ago and there was exactly that but sadly I don't remember any other details.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #529 on: October 20, 2020, 09:57:30 AM »


I understand. I remember seeing some graphics about homeownership rates in Europe something like one month ago and there was exactly that but sadly I don't remember any other details.

Voilà


Seems that it is really the DACH countries and former Easter bloc that stand out. Seems like in the former case it is basically down to there being no particular ideological attachment to "property ownership" and consequentially government policy has never really catered towards it, instead making a bigger effort to ensure that private renters are relatively secure and well protected. I suspect the opposite effect would be in play in post-90's Eastern Europe.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #530 on: October 20, 2020, 09:59:14 AM »

Yes, and the 1st District is also much slower to diversify than other districts of Vienna - which have seen an influx of immigrants from all over the World.

The population in the 1st has actually declined a lot over the decades and is pretty stagnant lately, while others are back to their 1900 levels.

While you have people from Africa and the Middle-East and Eastern Europe settle in the 10th and 11th districts and R-5H (where you can still get apartments for 10€ the square meter), you will mostly see upper-middle-class immigrants from Germany, Switzerland or Russia settle in the first, because they can afford to do so (5.000€/squre meter).

And those wealthy immigrants from the EU and Russia etc. are by definition more ÖVP+Green+NEOS voting, instead of SPÖ+FPÖ+Strache ...

Did you miss some zeroes in the first price you mentioned? You'd be talking about apartments of 100 m² costing less than a small motorcycle lmao

Also, 5000€ per m² sounds pretty low for the poshest and upper-class-est district in all Austria.

That’s monthly rent prices, not purchase prices.

You can still rent a 100m² apartment for about 1.000€ per month in some of those residential middle-class districts. Purchase prices: ca. 100.000 to 300.000€.

Vienna remains one of the most affordable cities for working-class families. The prices there are only a handful of what they are in Munich, London or Paris.

On the other hand, you are easily spending a few to several thousand €s a month to rent a same-sized luxury apartment in the inner-city. Purchase prices: 1 million € or more.

Aaaaaaaaah OK

Now it all makes sense. Sorry, I just never talk in terms of rent prices, because it isn't part of my personal life really.

As a general thing, home ownership rates are much lower, and consequently the number of people renting is much higher, in the German speaking countries than elsewhere. In big cities that is even more the case. So in a city like Vienna, you have around 80-90% of people renting their homes. Which is why people tend there tend to automatically assume prices as meaning rent prices rather than purchase ones.

I understand. I remember seeing some graphics about homeownership rates in Europe something like one month ago and there was exactly that but sadly I don't remember any other details.

Most young Austrians cannot even afford to buy a house these days.

The price for the building area + construction costs are between 300.000-600.000€ these days in the outlying suburbs. Prices for building in the suburbs have also increased sharply and for everything to be finished somewhere between 500k to 1 million € for a single family home. Especially in the tourist areas around here, where prices shot up significantly due to wealthy Dutch/Germans buying up the land.

People (or couples) would be indebted for life - unless they have a good inheritance.

Therefore, renting is the preferred option.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #531 on: October 20, 2020, 10:02:46 AM »

I understand. I remember seeing some graphics about homeownership rates in Europe something like one month ago and there was exactly that but sadly I don't remember any other details.

Voilà
https://www.lefigaro.fr/assets/infographie/print/1fixe/201334_carte_europe.png

Seems that it is really the DACH countries and former Easter bloc that stand out. Seems like in the former case it is basically down to there being no particular ideological attachment to "property ownership" and consequentially government policy has never really catered towards it, instead making a bigger effort to ensure that private renters are relatively secure and well protected. I suspect the opposite effect would be in play in post-90's Eastern Europe.

The graphics I saw also divided private housing tenants and social housing tenants. Do you have anything on that?
(I am pretty sure the UK is especially high on the latter)
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #532 on: October 20, 2020, 10:08:53 AM »

When are the "final" final results expected?

The official Vienna results have been released today (nothing has changed compared to the „preliminary“ results):

https://www.wien.gv.at/wahlergebnis/en/GR201/index.html
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parochial boy
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« Reply #533 on: October 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM »


The graphics I saw also divided private housing tenants and social housing tenants. Do you have anything on that?
(I am pretty sure the UK is especially high on the latter)

Nothing consistent to be honest. This seems to suggest one thing; and this something rather different when it comes to Social/Subsidied/below-market-price housing. I guess it comes to arguing about what counts or not. That is, between an actual state owned council house; a housing co-operative; co-ownership; privately owned to but government defined "affordable housing"; or just subsidised rent there are quite a few options and I guess you would get different results on which particular model you decided to include or not.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #534 on: October 22, 2020, 01:21:36 AM »

After SPÖ-NEOS on Monday, SPÖ-Greens on Tuesday and finally SPÖVP exploration talks yesterday, it’s pretty clear that SPÖVP can be ruled out.

Both sides said they had a „friendly talk“ but with „significant differences“.

Vienna mayor Ludwig and his SPÖ party committee will deliberate early next week and announce later next week if coalition negotiations will be started with the Greens or NEOS.

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3072333
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #535 on: October 22, 2020, 08:52:50 AM »

When are the "final" final results expected?

The official Vienna results have been released today (nothing has changed compared to the „preliminary“ results):

https://www.wien.gv.at/wahlergebnis/en/GR201/index.html

Literally not a single vote? That's impressive Smiley
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #536 on: October 22, 2020, 11:54:33 AM »

When are the "final" final results expected?

The official Vienna results have been released today (nothing has changed compared to the „preliminary“ results):

https://www.wien.gv.at/wahlergebnis/en/GR201/index.html

Literally not a single vote? That's impressive Smiley

Certification is usually only a formality here.

Votes are counted and checked on election day already (+ when the postals are counted).
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #537 on: October 26, 2020, 01:14:34 AM »

New OGM poll has the FPÖ dropping and the SPÖ gaining ground after the Vienna election:



51% ÖVP-FPÖ
47% SPÖ-Greens-NEOS
  2% Others

https://kurier.at/politik/inland/kurier-ogm-umfrage-spoe-nach-wien-wahl-im-aufwind-oevp-40-prozent/401077017
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Hnv1
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« Reply #538 on: October 26, 2020, 01:59:30 AM »

coalition-building is so long in GER\AUS...it's so ungerman to procrastinate on this
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #539 on: October 26, 2020, 02:05:19 AM »

coalition-building is so long in GER\AUS...it's so ungerman to procrastinate on this

I only wanted to highlight that the conservative/nationalist ÖVP-FPÖ bloc has dropped to just 51%, the lowest level in a while.

Of course, ÖVP-FPÖ is just as unlikely as SPÖ-Green-NEOS.
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #540 on: October 26, 2020, 02:10:31 AM »

SPÖ-leader Pamela Rendi-Wagner, who suffers from Hillaryesque low personal favourable ratings, is going back to her bread job (at least part-time):



https://kurier.at/chronik/oesterreich/rendi-wagner-als-aerztin-ab-sofort-im-corona-einsatz/401076948

Rendi-Wagner, a professor, doctor and epidemiologist, will perform COVID-tests in Vienna once a week for a charity organisation, besides her political work.

This comes after her mother suffered from COVID and had to be treated at an ICU, but has now left hospital again.

It is really astonishing that Pamela Rendi-Wagner, who would be a poster-child politician with her medical background in this situation, has been so ineffective these last few months and has suffered from such low ratings.

Maybe this will change her image in the public now (the reviews on social media are positive so far).

PRW is like Hermione Granger, but Austria acts like Slytherin.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #541 on: October 26, 2020, 02:31:38 AM »

In a major attack on workers, the ÖVP-Green government plans to end the so-called "Hacklerregelung" in the coming months.

It's about the pension entry age.

Currently, the general pension entry age is 65 for men and 60 for women.

The Hacklerregelung was introduced ahead of the 2019 election, by a pact of SPÖ+FPÖ, who then had a parliamentary majority.

It allowed workers with at least 45 years of employment (=payments into the Social Security system) to retire at age 62 already without any deductions from their monthly pension.

ÖVP-Greens now want to kill it, because apparently it's too expensive (which is a hoax).

I think this should continue, because for example a construction worker or carpenter who has worked 45 years from age 15 onwards with just brief periods of unemployment in between has every right to retire at 62.

This is not the Greens I voted for ...

Because on the other hand you got university graduates, who only start real work at 25 or 30, rack up a huge pension and retire after 35 years in the job ...

https://www.diepresse.com/5887338/hacklerregelung-fpo-bietet-spo-allianz-an-und-will-sondersitzung
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PSOL
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« Reply #542 on: October 26, 2020, 09:34:37 AM »


Oh this definitely is the Greens you’ve voted for. Has the events in France and the widespread documentation of elitism in these parties been unnoticed to you until now?
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #543 on: October 26, 2020, 09:53:02 AM »


Oh this definitely is the Greens you’ve voted for. Has the events in France and the widespread documentation of elitism in these parties been unnoticed to you until now?

The Greens got a lot of loan votes from the Social Dems in the 2019 election, so you could expect the Greens to behave at least a bit more like them in the coalition - and not act just as a rubber stamp for the power-hungry, worker-hating ÖVP.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #544 on: October 26, 2020, 10:30:36 AM »


It is really astonishing that Pamela Rendi-Wagner, who would be a poster-child politician with her medical background in this situation, has been so ineffective these last few months and has suffered from such low ratings.

Maybe this will change her image in the public now (the reviews on social media are positive so far).

PRW is like Hermione Granger, but Austria acts like Slytherin.

Didn't she get loads of stick from party "grandees" almost as soon as being elected leader?

Sounds sort of familiar......
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #545 on: October 26, 2020, 10:36:50 AM »

It is really astonishing that Pamela Rendi-Wagner, who would be a poster-child politician with her medical background in this situation, has been so ineffective these last few months and has suffered from such low ratings.

Maybe this will change her image in the public now (the reviews on social media are positive so far).

PRW is like Hermione Granger, but Austria acts like Slytherin.

Didn't she get loads of stick from party "grandees" almost as soon as being elected leader?

Sounds sort of familiar......

Yes, there are a lot of macho-men within the Social Democratic Party, who didn’t get used to a woman being in charge, reminding her every day how they would do things better or different.

On top of that there were also rumours that the ÖVP planted a mole inside the SPÖ, to destroy it from within.

Not sure if she’s in full command of the party yet, but things there (= the constant intrigues) have become far more quiet recently.
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PSOL
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« Reply #546 on: October 26, 2020, 04:38:55 PM »


Oh this definitely is the Greens you’ve voted for. Has the events in France and the widespread documentation of elitism in these parties been unnoticed to you until now?

The Greens got a lot of loan votes from the Social Dems in the 2019 election, so you could expect the Greens to behave at least a bit more like them in the coalition - and not act just as a rubber stamp for the power-hungry, worker-hating ÖVP.
That’s not how politics work brah, enjoy your Green austerity Smiley
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #547 on: October 27, 2020, 12:56:02 AM »

Vienna mayor Ludwig will announce the SPÖs preferred coalition partner today.

All signs are pointing towards ditching the Greens and an SPÖ-NEOS coalition ...
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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #548 on: October 27, 2020, 01:46:21 AM »

Vienna mayor Ludwig will announce the SPÖs preferred coalition partner today.

All signs are pointing towards ditching the Greens and an SPÖ-NEOS coalition ...

The new OGM/Kurier poll shows that Austrians, Vienna-voters and SPÖ-voters are all pretty mixed about which coalition should be formed in Vienna.

While all Austrians polled would slightly prefer SPÖ-NEOS, the same is true for SPÖ-voters only.

Vienna-voters would slightly prefer a 3rd term of SPÖ-Greens.

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Tender Branson
Mark Warner 08
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« Reply #549 on: October 27, 2020, 06:45:28 AM »

Now it's official:

Vienna mayor Michael Ludwig and his Social Dems will enter coalition talks with the liberal NEOS.

The mayor just confirmed it in a press statement.

This would be the 1st Social-Liberal coalition in Austria.

https://orf.at/stories/3186892
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