Southeastern Initiatives for February

[Democratic Hawk]

X Hawk on 116 and 117

Dave

[Bdub]

X Brandon W on Initiatives 116 and 117.

[jokerman]

Well obviously, the Lt. Governor will be able to unofficially help the Governor and Treasurer on the budget matter and aid the governor in produce legislative works.  The Lt. Governor has never been a strong position, but really, the Governor's office isn't that strong either constitutionally, with even the chiefly power, of legislation, being limited to being put on referendum by the people.  It's not about the constitutional definitions of the position, it's what each person makes of the position.

[Jake]

Safe Abortion Initiative

1. All legal abortions preformed under Southeastern law must occur in a licensed facility under the supervision of a licensed medical doctor.

2. A medical facility may apply for status as a licensed abortion provider by submitting to a safety inspection based on the health code in the state in which they are located and by purchasing a license for $10,000.

3. Any sections of state, local, or regional statute that is inconsistent with Sections 1 and 2 are hereby repealed.

4. Any abortion preformed outside a licensed facility and without the supervision of a licensed medical doctor are hereby declared illegal and are subject to the penalties laid out in The Abortion Initiative.

Local Government Initiative

1. States of the Southeast Region which consist of two or more registered voters may form a State Assembly.

2. The Assembly will consist of all registered voters of the state and will have authority to vote upon those issues which the Southeast Region specifically grants to them by the initiative process.

3. Each Assembly will be organized around the initiative process laid out in Article II, Section I of the Southeast Constitution with the following modifications:

1. The Citizens of the [insert state name here] shall have the right to petition their government to gain access to the ballot for any issue. Such a petition shall have at least one signature of registered voter of the aforementioned state in order to be added to the ballot at the next Initiative election. Initiative elections should be held on the third weekend of each month beginning within 12 hours after midnight Central time on Friday morning and ending at 11:59pm Central time on the following Sunday night. Initiatives that receive a tie vote shall be voted upon again in the next Initiative election without the need to be reproposed. Every initiative shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.-

4. Any amendments made to the Southeast Constitution regarding the time the Regional Initiative Election is held shall be adopted to amend this initiative automatically.


-Jake

[jokerman]

X Cosmo Kramer to both of those

[TomC]

Local Government Initiative



3. Each Assembly will be organized around the initiative process laid out in Article II, Section I of the Southeast Constitution with the following modifications:

1. The Citizens of the [insert state name here] shall have the right to petition their government to gain access to the ballot for any issue. Such a petition shall have at least one signature of registered voter of the aforementioned state in order to be added to the ballot at the next Initiative election. Initiative elections should be held on the third weekend of each month beginning within 12 hours after midnight Central time on Friday morning and ending at 11:59pm Central time on the following Sunday night. Initiatives that receive a tie vote shall be voted upon again in the next Initiative election without the need to be reproposed. Every initiative shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.-

4. Any amendments made to the Southeast Constitution regarding the time the Regional Initiative Election is held shall be adopted to amend this initiative automatically.


-Jake

Help me understand why this isn't a Constitutional Amendment. Federal and regional empowerments of the same nature must be placed in the constitution. How is it this doesn't rise to that level? We would be creating law making bodies without placement in the Constitution? I like this idea, but it needs to be placed in ur constitution, not a simple initiative.

[Jake]

I saw nothing in the constitution contradictory to the initiative. Perhaps you found something?

[Bdub]

X Brandon W to both of those.

[TomC]

Safe Abortion Initiative

1. All legal abortions preformed under Southeastern law must occur in a licensed facility under the supervision of a licensed medical doctor.

2. A medical facility may apply for status as a licensed abortion provider by submitting to a safety inspection based on the health code in the state in which they are located and by purchasing a license for $10,000.

3. Any sections of state, local, or regional statute that is inconsistent with Sections 1 and 2 are hereby repealed.

4. Any abortion preformed outside a licensed facility and without the supervision of a licensed medical doctor are hereby declared illegal and are subject to the penalties laid out in The Abortion Initiative.

Local Government Initiative

1. States of the Southeast Region which consist of two or more registered voters may form a State Assembly.

2. The Assembly will consist of all registered voters of the state and will have authority to vote upon those issues which the Southeast Region specifically grants to them by the initiative process.

3. Each Assembly will be organized around the initiative process laid out in Article II, Section I of the Southeast Constitution with the following modifications:

1. The Citizens of the [insert state name here] shall have the right to petition their government to gain access to the ballot for any issue. Such a petition shall have at least one signature of registered voter of the aforementioned state in order to be added to the ballot at the next Initiative election. Initiative elections should be held on the third weekend of each month beginning within 12 hours after midnight Central time on Friday morning and ending at 11:59pm Central time on the following Sunday night. Initiatives that receive a tie vote shall be voted upon again in the next Initiative election without the need to be reproposed. Every initiative shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.-

As is, according to the Constitution, there must be three signatures. Either, you are asking for the Southeast government to allow an initiative with less than what is required, or you have neglected to spell out who is responsible for setting up a state booth. I don't see where you have that authority, beyond adapting our constitution.

[Jake]

I fail to see how those bolded sections are mutually exclusive. The Initiative clearly states that the process of voting on initiatives follow the SE Constitution, as modified for the initiatives purpose below.

[TomC]

Local Government Initiative

1. States of the Southeast Region which consist of two or more registered voters may form a State Assembly.

2. The Assembly will consist of all registered voters of the state and will have authority to vote upon those issues which the Southeast Region specifically grants to them by the initiative process.

3. Each Assembly will be organized around the initiative process laid out in Article II, Section I of the Southeast Constitution with the following modifications:

1. The Citizens of the [insert state name here] shall have the right to petition their government to gain access to the ballot for any issue. Such a petition shall have at least one signature of registered voter of the aforementioned state in order to be added to the ballot at the next Initiative election. Initiative elections should be held on the third weekend of each month beginning within 12 hours after midnight Central time on Friday morning and ending at 11:59pm Central time on the following Sunday night. Initiatives that receive a tie vote shall be voted upon again in the next Initiative election without the need to be reproposed. Every initiative shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.-

Alright, I've bolded a third part, above. You call to the authority of the SE regional government's constitution, yet you wish to change the number of signatures required. That requires a constitutional amendment.

Whose ballot is this going to be on- the SE's? Who is going to place the initiative on the ballot? The governor? (A major question you have neglected to answer in your bill.) If yes, you are stretching the COnstitutional limits of the SE government. If no, why is it that to create an initiative process, the SE must have a Constitutional provision, yet a "state" does not? Makes no sense that you can create local governments with the mere force of an initiative when every existing level of government has a constitution to empower it to do the things you wish for your state to then do.

[Jake]

Alright, I've bolded a third part, above.

Good. That is what acts as the rules that bind a state's lawmaking.

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Indeed

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Whomever conducts the electoral process in the SE. Traditionally the Governor, but I wouldn't be surprised if a private citizen conducts the election again.

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I'll amend it to address your concerns over this, refrencing Sections 1, 2, and 6 off the Voting Regs should address this concern (which is divorced from your original claim BTW).

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A state assembly is bound by the later part of Section II. There is no need for the establishment of a Constitution, as the region is governed by the Constitution and the region is granting certain powers under that Constitution to the states.

[TomC]

Alright, I've bolded a third part, above.

Good. That is what acts as the rules that bind a state's lawmaking.

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Indeed

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Whomever conducts the electoral process in the SE. Traditionally the Governor, but I wouldn't be surprised if a private citizen conducts the election again.

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I'll amend it to address your concerns over this, refrencing Sections 1, 2, and 6 off the Voting Regs should address this concern (which is divorced from your original claim BTW).

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A state assembly is bound by the later part of Section II. There is no need for the establishment of a Constitution, as the region is governed by the Constitution and the region is granting certain powers under that Constitution to the states.

So, you wish to use the constitution of the Southeast to set up an initiative process for a group of citizens. No one in the Southeast government, besides the governor, has the authority to place initiatives on the ballot without three signatures. And the governor may only place his own on the ballot without any other signatures. And that would only work in this state referendum process for the state the governor is registered in. For the Southeast government to place an initiative on the  ballot without three signatures, the Constitution would need to be amended.

[Jake]

You're not thwarting anything actually.

[jokerman]

Constitutional Amendment

Article II, Section I of the constitution shall be stricken and replaced with the following
1. Iniative Process
(a) The chief legislative body of the Southeast Region shall be the Regional Assembly
(b) For an initiative to be considered by the Regional Assembly it must either
   (1) Be introduced by a citizen of the Southeast of the along with the signed petition of three additional citizens
   (2) Be directly proposed by the Southeast Governor
(c) The Regional Assembly shall be presided over by the Governor.  The Governor will also arbitrate over the rules and procedures of the body, except where constrained by the constition.  Should the Governor be unable to fufill this duty, the Lt. Governor shall preside over the Assembly.
(d) All initiatives that have been brought before the Regional Assembly must be given at least 48 hours of consideration before voting
(e) All initiatives that have been brought before the Regional Assembly shall receive at least 72 hours but no more than one week for final voting
(f) A quorum of
   (1) 1/3 of southeast citizens must be present for all procedural votes
   (2) 1/2 of southeast citizens msut be present for all final votes
(g) For an initiative to pass, it must be signed by the Governor or 96 hours must pass without action from the Governor

Article I, Section VI shall be replaced with
The Primary responsibility of the Governor shall be to work with the regional Senators and the Forum President to ensure that the rights, liberties, and interests of southeastern citizens are protected. The Governor shall have the authority to propose any Initative, which shall be voted upon as designated by this constitution

Article I, Section XI shall be replaced with

11. The Governor may nominate a Magistrate subject to approval by the majority of voters of the Southeast upon appropriate consideration by the Regional Assembly, and the minimum time before voting shall be 48 hours.

[Jake]

Great idea. Just a few quibbles. Change section (i) to read "veto" instead of majority and reword the magistrate section as it is a bit disjointed.

I sign regardless of changes.

X-Jake

[Reaganfan]

X Mike Naso

[Bacon King]

X Bacon King

[Josh/Devilman88]

X- Josh22

[Brandon H]

While I am not completely opposed to these changes, these are big changes and I am curious why they were not proposed until less than a week before the election?

[Q]

Most of this seems fine, but I really, really don't like the idea of giving the Governor veto power over what has to-date been decided by the will of the majority of the SE, and especially not by requiring the public to be 60% in favor of something for it to be veto-proof.  It should be 50% if the veto power winds up being granted.

But I do have a question:

(h) The Governor shall have the power to veto an initiative
(i) A 3/5 majority shall be required to overturn a [veto?]

Would that be 3/5 of the people who voted for the particular initiative that was vetoed?  I doubt we could get 3/5 of even the people who voted "Aye" to get back and vote to overturn the veto, both because not everyone in the region aren't active all the time and, furthermore, because most people, even if disappointed that the Governor vetoed something that a majority had voted for, would be not especially likely to come back and vote against the Governor like this.

I urge the sponsor of this initiative, Cosmo Kramer, to remove the veto power provision.

[Bdub]

X- Brandon W

[Q]

Voters of the Southeast: I urge you to reject any initiative put before you that allows the Governor to overrule the will of the people!

[Democratic Hawk]

Safe Abortion Initiative

Local Government Initiative

X - Hawk

[Democratic Hawk]

Constitutional Amendment

X - Hawk