Rise of Skywalker Official Discussion thread -spoilers allowed-

[politicallefty]

I saw it Thursday night. I've seen every Star Wars on opening day since AOTC. I don't have the same issues with TLJ that some have, but this movie was far and way better. JJ does definitely go for nostaglia, but nowhere near as blatant as TFA. Emperor Palpatine is one of the best villains ever and he was great in this movie, especially in the later scenes of the movie. I also appreciated how well the Leia scenes were done. I think they did both her and Carrie Fisher justice and proper due respect.

I also don't share the prequel hate a lot of people have. I rank ROTS at the top alongside ESB. The prequel era also really established the Clone Wars (a great series for anyone possibly interested).

[Trump Is A Maoist]

I don't have the same issues with TLJ that some have, but this movie was far and way better.

I can see that argument if you're talking about The Last Jedi as a piece of the Star Wars canon, or as one piece of a larger saga. As a film, just by itself as a single movie and ignoring prequels sequels or any outside related films, I can't see any argument where Rise Of Skywalker was better than The Last Jedi. For all the good things I have to say about Rise Of Skywalker, the pacing and script were an absolute mess.

[7,052,770]

So what's the story on the Leia scenes? Did they take unused lines she'd filmed for TFA and TLJ and splice them into TRoS in new contexts? If so, it must have been clever scriptwriting because that sounds like it would be clunky.

[brucejoel99]

So what's the story on the Leia scenes? Did they take unused lines she'd filmed for TFA and TLJ and splice them into TRoS in new contexts? If so, it must have been clever scriptwriting because that sounds like it would be clunky.

Yeah, they literally took existing footage & jigsaw puzzled it into this movie. It felt jarringly weird. You could see that the old footage with Carrie always felt like Daisy Ridley & Co. were doing improv games with static lines. They were doing their best but they just didn't have enough flexibility. Of course, there's no easy fix for that, but it honestly made it impossible for me to focus on any of her scenes because the whole time, I couldn't not look for the seams between her acting & the rest of the actors.

Regardless, though, I still thought that it was a beautiful tribute to Leia/Carrie.

[Mr. Smith]

And now I've seen it...and I can conclude that it is the best of the trilogy by virtue of offering a real story rather than a 99% reskin [The Force Awakens] and a rebuttal [The Last Jedi].

I admit that I went in expecting the worst, but it actually held through, albeit still not as good as the OT or Ep. III.

The pacing was fast and there was clearly a lot to juggle, but making  the first half "a mystery box" again actually allowed for the main characters [Rey, Finn, and Poe] to develop a chemistry that pretty much lacked the entire way until then, and it allowed other characters a few good moments.

It's just too bad it fell apart with the obvious retcon given linking Rey to Palpatine, the entire plot just derailed after that to become an unearned Return of the Jedi reskin.

Much as I hate to credit Johnson for anything given what a disaster TLJ was generally, implying Ben was on his way to complete evil beyond The Sith and possibly the final antagonist was a good idea...so I just don't get why he was backtracked to repeat Vader's story.

It's also a bummer that there really wasn't a good lightsaber fight this time around, improved for the last movie by having one...but for all the finesse and power both Rey and Ben had, you'd think they'd be able to maneuver comparable to Anakin and Obi-Wan.

But given that I am posting this at 2 am...right now, I'm probably most p&*sed at the offscreen murder of Ahsoka Tano.

[7,052,770]

So what's the story on the Leia scenes? Did they take unused lines she'd filmed for TFA and TLJ and splice them into TRoS in new contexts? If so, it must have been clever scriptwriting because that sounds like it would be clunky.

Yeah, they literally took existing footage & jigsaw puzzled it into this movie. It felt jarringly weird. You could see that the old footage with Carrie always felt like Daisy Ridley & Co. were doing improv games with static lines. They were doing their best but they just didn't have enough flexibility. Of course, there's no easy fix for that, but it honestly made it impossible for me to focus on any of her scenes because the whole time, I couldn't not look for the seams between her acting & the rest of the actors.

Regardless, though, I still thought that it was a beautiful tribute to Leia/Carrie.

I'll look for that the next time I watch it, which may be years from now, but having not known it going in, I didn't pick up anything weird in her scenes.

[brucejoel99]

So what's the story on the Leia scenes? Did they take unused lines she'd filmed for TFA and TLJ and splice them into TRoS in new contexts? If so, it must have been clever scriptwriting because that sounds like it would be clunky.

Yeah, they literally took existing footage & jigsaw puzzled it into this movie. It felt jarringly weird. You could see that the old footage with Carrie always felt like Daisy Ridley & Co. were doing improv games with static lines. They were doing their best but they just didn't have enough flexibility. Of course, there's no easy fix for that, but it honestly made it impossible for me to focus on any of her scenes because the whole time, I couldn't not look for the seams between her acting & the rest of the actors.

Regardless, though, I still thought that it was a beautiful tribute to Leia/Carrie.

I'll look for that the next time I watch it, which may be years from now, but having not known it going in, I didn't pick up anything weird in her scenes.

Fair enough. I just couldn't get it out of my head that Carrie was evidently only asking vague questions & saying nonspecific platitudes in such an incredibly awkward manner.

[You are responsible]

Well, I've seen the film now too.

Not awful per se, just a tad a generic. I suppose Rise of Skywalker represents the new type of "standard Star Wars saga movie" very well, although for a grand trilogy finale it's of course a bit underwhelming. As a standalone film it would have been okay.

[Progressive Pessimist]

So what's the story on the Leia scenes? Did they take unused lines she'd filmed for TFA and TLJ and splice them into TRoS in new contexts? If so, it must have been clever scriptwriting because that sounds like it would be clunky.

This is yet another reason why 'The Last Jedi' handicapped 'The Rise of Skywalker.' It was a gamble to kill off Luke instead of Leia, but it came up snake eyes. So in order for Episode IX to make sense they had no choice but to write the story around whatever footage was left.

It's so sad that there as only ever one opportunity to make a new trilogy with much of the old cast, and they squandered it on this dumpster-fire of a trilogy.

[Zohran "The Sword of Islam" Mamdani]

"I don't want to say that if you like this movie you have a low IQ, but if you like this movie, you have a low IQ." -Mike Stoklasa

[7,052,770]

Agree or disagree - if they had just filmed the Thrawn Trilogy as episodes 7 - 9, it would have been much better and more popular than the actual episodes 7 - 9.

I think it's almost certainly correct. 2015 would have been kinda late, since Heir to Empire takes place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi, but the story is great and it would have just come down to could the actors and producers avoid blowing it.

[brucejoel99]

Agree or disagree - if they had just filmed the Thrawn Trilogy as episodes 7 - 9, it would have been much better and more popular than the actual episodes 7 - 9.

I think it's almost certainly correct. 2015 would have been kinda late, since Heir to Empire takes place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi, but the story is great and it would have just come down to could the actors and producers avoid blowing it.

I think the Thrawn Trilogy has a more interesting & deep storyline than the sequel trilogy, but I don't think that it would've made a good film without a large amount of reworking. Generally speaking, books don't tend to map well into films, so I don't think the Thrawn books would've been appropriate for the new trilogy.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I found the scene where all the past Jedi somehow combine their powers within Ray to kill Palpatine really really dumb , as that is not how the force is supposed to work . What they should have done is have Palpatine try to use essence transfer to transfer his spirit to Kylo Ren and Anakin’s force ghost then intervened by  holding Palpatine spirit from taking over temporarily and then Ben uses that brief moment to kill himself and Palpatine at the same .

The movie overall though , I liked it but I felt the trilogy would have been much better if they used the first half of the movie as episode 8 and 2nd as 9 . So basically the first half of episode 8 should have been Rey training with Luke , and Kylo training in Vader former castle and the second half of that movie being Kylo and Rey meeting on Snoke ship and Rey basically about to die but Luke in his dying moments saving Rey and letting her escape before he dies. Then the movie would end with Snoke being revealed as the spirit of Palpatine and him ordering Kylo to turn his granddaughter Rey to the dark side and then ending the movie with Rey figuring out who her grandfather is too.

[brucejoel99]

I found the scene where all the past Jedi somehow combine their powers within Ray to kill Palpatine really really dumb , as that is not how the force is supposed to work .

Since when do interesting new ways in which the Force can work contrast with "how the force is supposed to work?" The Force has always been something (literally, since the OT) that can work however the writers want it to, & I myself thought that the ways introduced within TROS were quite good.

What they should have done is have Palpatine try to use essence transfer to transfer his spirit to Kylo Ren and Anakin’s force ghost then intervened by  holding Palpatine spirit from taking over temporarily and then Ben uses that brief moment to kill himself and Palpatine at the same .

This is why fanboys aren't hired to actually write the movies.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I found the scene where all the past Jedi somehow combine their powers within Ray to kill Palpatine really really dumb , as that is not how the force is supposed to work .

Since when do interesting new ways in which the Force can work contrast with "how the force is supposed to work?" The Force has always been something (literally, since the OT) that can work however the writers want it to, & I myself thought that the ways introduced within TROS were quite good.

What they should have done is have Palpatine try to use essence transfer to transfer his spirit to Kylo Ren and Anakin’s force ghost then intervened by  holding Palpatine spirit from taking over temporarily and then Ben uses that brief moment to kill himself and Palpatine at the same .

This is why fanboys aren't hired to actually write the movies.

- I think the force heal was good but I found the last battle which was powers of all sith combined vs all Jedi combined very dumb


- Actually I got the essence transfer thing straight from the EU , and Palpatine dies in the EU due to his essence being transferred accidentally to a dying body . In my version the force ghost of Anakin just give Ben just enough time to sacrifice himself to kill Sidious with him . This then doesn’t destroy the concept of the chosen one too and keep Anakin as the chosen one .

At the very least they should have just had Anakin combine his powers with Rey to defeat Sidious as that would still keep the chosen one thing intact as using all Jedi kinda did ruin that

[brucejoel99]

I found the scene where all the past Jedi somehow combine their powers within Ray to kill Palpatine really really dumb , as that is not how the force is supposed to work .

Since when do interesting new ways in which the Force can work contrast with "how the force is supposed to work?" The Force has always been something (literally, since the OT) that can work however the writers want it to, & I myself thought that the ways introduced within TROS were quite good.

What they should have done is have Palpatine try to use essence transfer to transfer his spirit to Kylo Ren and Anakin’s force ghost then intervened by  holding Palpatine spirit from taking over temporarily and then Ben uses that brief moment to kill himself and Palpatine at the same .

This is why fanboys aren't hired to actually write the movies.

- I think the force heal was good but I found the last battle which was powers of all sith combined vs all Jedi combined very dumb


- Actually I got the essence transfer thing straight from the EU , and Palpatine dies in the EU due to his essence being transferred accidentally to a dying body . In my version the force ghost of Anakin just give Ben just enough time to sacrifice himself to kill Sidious with him . This then doesn’t destroy the concept of the chosen one too and keep Anakin as the chosen one .

At the very least they should have just had Anakin combine his powers with Rey to defeat Sidious as that would still keep the chosen one thing intact as using all Jedi kinda did ruin that

The concept of Anakin as the Chosen One wasn't destroyed, though, as the voices scene, IMO, is more than just the past Jedi giving Rey encouragement. I personally see that scene as Anakin having gathered the spirits of all of those Jedi, both those who learned the secret of immortality & those who became one with the force fully. And him, along with all of the other Jedi of the past, giving all of their strength to Rey is the only reason she was able to stand up & take down Sidious once & for all. This fulfills the prophecy fully, & the only reason any of it worked were due to the actions of Anakin, who needed to become one with the force in order to bring the balance he was always destined to bring.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Agree or disagree - if they had just filmed the Thrawn Trilogy as episodes 7 - 9, it would have been much better and more popular than the actual episodes 7 - 9.

I think it's almost certainly correct. 2015 would have been kinda late, since Heir to Empire takes place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi, but the story is great and it would have just come down to could the actors and producers avoid blowing it.

They basically did a mix of Dark Empire and the Second Galactic Civil War although there were changes made

[Orser67]

Just saw it and thought it was great. The pacing criticisms are entirely warranted, as it feels like there are enough plot points here for two full movies, or at least 1 1/2 films. It's a shame they couldn't have just gotten Abrams to do all three movies, instead of leaving us with a weird trilogy that was 2/3 Abrams and 1/3 Johnson. I think that they're both very talented filmmakers, but this arrangement just didn't work.

Despite those issues, I thought it was a wonderful ending to the Skywalker Saga and (finally) justified the continuation of the main series. My reaction to the movie can be divided into two parts: everything up to Han Solo's scene was decent, and everything afterwards was fantastic. Episode 9 also resolved some of my problems with TLJ; though retconning was a major aspect of that resolution, it was actually a little more respectful of Johnson's work than I thought it might be based on reading spoiler-free reviews.

Other random reactions:
-I really really really want a Luke Skywalker film set during the Jedi Academy years. Mark Hamill is awesome, would probably be up for it, and (as we sadly saw with Carrie Fisher) won't be around forever
-Lando! Yeah he was in the trailers, but it was still great to have Billy Dee Williams back. Also, Wedge!
-Han! That was a ing awesome scene.
-They did a reasonably good job with Leia's scenes, given the constraints
-Loved the Jedi coming back to finish Palpatine for good (probably). I might have liked an Anakin force ghost appearance, but I can understand why they didn't go that route. I loved that they brought in Hayden Christensen, Ewan McGregor, Samuel L. Jackson, and even Ashley Eckstein (Ahsoka from the cartoons)
-It kinda sucks how Palpatine's return was a little rushed, but his presence really felt necessary to bring the Skywalker saga full circle, especially given how Snoke was dispatched in the last film
-The new characters were cool, but I can't believe that was Keri Russell under that helmet (as Zorii). Kinda feels like a waste to cast her in that role (not that she was bad by any means)
-Richard E. Grant was great in his role as an imperial officer. It's a shame he didn't appear in earlier films
-Rey's mother was played by the assassin from Killing Eve. Pretty cool mother.
-I really liked Ben Solo's arc.
-20 years later, and I still need closure on galactic trade policy. Were they ever able to come to a settlement that was fair to both organizations like the Trade Federation and worlds like Naboo? Just kidding.
-Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I liked the parallels between the First Order and the Final Order on the one hand, and, on the other hand, the Foundation and the Second Foundation from the aptly-named Foundation series by Isaac Asimov.

[MasterJedi]

Agree or disagree - if they had just filmed the Thrawn Trilogy as episodes 7 - 9, it would have been much better and more popular than the actual episodes 7 - 9.

I think it's almost certainly correct. 2015 would have been kinda late, since Heir to Empire takes place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi, but the story is great and it would have just come down to could the actors and producers avoid blowing it.

Yes, the Thrawn Trilogy is THE sequel trilogy of old, excellent story, it was also basically the first new Star Wars novels of it's time, would have been met with much approval.


Just saw the movie on Tuesday night, I did like it a lot, half of it was basically just a worse Dark Empire though. They also went for positivity and less about story telling. They should have killed Chewbacca (his death in the NJO was better and a noble sacrifice), they should have let Rey die too, Ben was redeemed and it would be better storytelling for a redeemed Ben to rebuild the Jedi order going forward. (Speaking of this they did a better Darth Solo in LOTJ and didn't have to redeem Jacen because of novels being a superior medium to film).

[brucejoel99]

Agree or disagree - if they had just filmed the Thrawn Trilogy as episodes 7 - 9, it would have been much better and more popular than the actual episodes 7 - 9.

I think it's almost certainly correct. 2015 would have been kinda late, since Heir to Empire takes place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi, but the story is great and it would have just come down to could the actors and producers avoid blowing it.

Yes, the Thrawn Trilogy is THE sequel trilogy of old, excellent story, it was also basically the first new Star Wars novels of it's time, would have been met with much approval.

Ironic considering that Timothy Zahn has confirmed that the trilogy was never meant to be perceived as the sequel trilogy, not to mention the fact that Lucas has said that the Expanded Universe didn't line up with his vision.

[MasterJedi]

Agree or disagree - if they had just filmed the Thrawn Trilogy as episodes 7 - 9, it would have been much better and more popular than the actual episodes 7 - 9.

I think it's almost certainly correct. 2015 would have been kinda late, since Heir to Empire takes place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi, but the story is great and it would have just come down to could the actors and producers avoid blowing it.

Yes, the Thrawn Trilogy is THE sequel trilogy of old, excellent story, it was also basically the first new Star Wars novels of it's time, would have been met with much approval.

Ironic considering that Timothy Zahn has confirmed that the trilogy was never meant to be perceived as the sequel trilogy, not to mention the fact that Lucas has said that the Expanded Universe didn't line up with his vision.

It became the sequel trilogy as it was the first new star wars novels in awhile and basically kicked off the EU as we know it. The funny part with Lucas though is he was definitely hands off but they ran a lot of stuff by him, especially during the big series. He nixed Anakin being the hero in NJO instead of Jacen and nixed the idea of the Yuuzhan Vong being sith so he happily contributed to what was done and made money off of it, I just think he was somewhat bitter it was all better received than the prequels.

[2016]

Haven't seen the Movie but by all Accounts not worth spending a dime. Abrams has created a massive cluster just by the Reviews I read.

[Former President tack50]

Ok, watched the movie today. For what's worth, I have not watched all Star Wars movies; I have yet to watch episodes III and VIII. So I actually watched Rise of Skywalker before The Last Jedi.

Either way, in my opinion it was a good movie, but still pales in comparison to the rest of the series. Definitely below any of the original trilogy. Also below episode VII.

Still worth a watch anyways.

Worst part honestly is the reveal of Palpatine. Like I honestly thought The Last Jedi explained it and I was just confused because I watched them out of order, but apparently not lol

[Mr. Smith]

Haven't seen the Movie but by all Accounts not worth spending a dime. Abrams has created a massive cluster just by the Reviews I read.

This was inevitable given what little The Last Jedileft anyone to work with. That he could conjure up anything at all is miraculous.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Haven't seen the Movie but by all Accounts not worth spending a dime. Abrams has created a massive cluster just by the Reviews I read.

Don’t trust the critics they loved the last Jedi while the audience hated it . The audience score on rotten tomatoes for The Rise of Skywalker is 86% while the audience score for the Last Jedi was 43%(critic score was 91%)