Rise of Skywalker Official Discussion thread -spoilers allowed-

[Morgan Kingsley]

I know this is a day early, but I decided I would make one now for when the time comes. You are free to discuss what you liked and disliked in this movie here, and I would be interested to see what you all think of the movie

[Progressive Pessimist]

I probably won't see it for another two weeks or so, when the crowds die down.

I read the spoilers on Reddit already. But seeing a movie, in spite of spoiling it for myself, is always a different experience. Anyway, I now have even more tempered expectations going in. That mindset helped make 'The Last Jedi' not be such an infuriating blindside when I finally saw it, as much as I was still disappointed.

[Morgan Kingsley]

I probably won't see it for another two weeks or so, when the crowds die down.

I read the spoilers on Reddit already. But seeing a movie, in spite of spoiling it for myself, is always a different experience. Anyway, I now have even more tempered expectations going in. That mindset helped make 'The Last Jedi' not be such an infuriating blindside when I finally saw it, as much as I was still disappointed.

Yeah I read the reddit article, and it seems like a ride, for all the wrong reasons

[Zohran "The Sword of Islam" Mamdani]

I don't want these new Star Wars films to be bad, and I don't go into them actively wanting to hate them. But the past four Disney films have been absolutely awful, and the RT score is vindicating for those of us who said that this trilogy would be a disaster long, long ago in December of 2015. If it's this bad, it deserves to be recognized as such.

[Roblox]

As someone who very much liked both the Force awakens and the Last Jedi (sue me), the reviews and the spoilers I've read (I found the full plot description on reddit a few months ago) seem…Oofy, to say the least.

[brucejoel99]

I don't want these new Star Wars films to be bad, and I don't go into them actively wanting to hate them. But the past four Disney films have been absolutely awful, and the RT score is vindicating for those of us who said that this trilogy would be a disaster long, long ago in December of 2015. If it's this bad, it deserves to be recognized as such.

Damn, man, don't s**t on Rogue One like that.

[Zohran "The Sword of Islam" Mamdani]

I don't want these new Star Wars films to be bad, and I don't go into them actively wanting to hate them. But the past four Disney films have been absolutely awful, and the RT score is vindicating for those of us who said that this trilogy would be a disaster long, long ago in December of 2015. If it's this bad, it deserves to be recognized as such.

Damn, man, don't s**t on Rogue One like that.

Relative to its budget, I honestly believe Rogue One is the worst film ever made.

[brucejoel99]

I don't want these new Star Wars films to be bad, and I don't go into them actively wanting to hate them. But the past four Disney films have been absolutely awful, and the RT score is vindicating for those of us who said that this trilogy would be a disaster long, long ago in December of 2015. If it's this bad, it deserves to be recognized as such.

Damn, man, don't s**t on Rogue One like that.

Relative to its budget, I honestly believe Rogue One is the worst film ever made.

Oof

[Progressive Pessimist]

The plot summary is up on Wikipedia. It does differ slightly from the leaked spoilers though, in both better and worse ways.

[Orwell]

From what I read on wikipedia, it angers me what they did to General Hux.

[Morgan Kingsley]

That movie fking sucked

[Morgan Kingsley]

This was me when I was getting my ticket at the opening day. Even with the reviews, I was still kind of excited. Partly to get it over with, and partly because I still had lingering hope. Turns out that the movie might actually be my worst one of the series. I just am glad this series is done with

[brucejoel99]

I feel like I'm the only one who came out of that movie who liked it. The beginning felt a bit rushed and I wish they did more build-up for the Emperor, but this felt whole and complete. I enjoyed every minute of it and loved pretty much every movie of the new trilogy.

Just got out of my screening & all I can say is this this this 1000x this.

I know this movie is full of flaws. The pacing was insane, the plot was crushed by the weight of the unevenness of this unplanned trilogy, & some decisions were just mind boggling (I'm still flabbergasted that they didn't even give us a throwaway line or ANYTHING about how Palpatine survived).

But god damn it if I didn't love it just the same. I'm a sucker. Give me some heart, some cool action scenes, & some epicness, & I'll follow your stupid ass movie anywhere you wanna take it. Can't say I disagree with all the reviews calling out its flaws, but I also can't say I wasn't absolutely smitten with this movie from beginning to end.

[Zohran "The Sword of Islam" Mamdani]

I feel like I'm the only one who came out of that movie who liked it. The beginning felt a bit rushed and I wish they did more build-up for the Emperor, but this felt whole and complete. I enjoyed every minute of it and loved pretty much every movie of the new trilogy.

Just got out of my screening & all I can say is this this this 1000x this.

I know this movie is full of flaws. The pacing was insane, the plot was crushed by the weight of the unevenness of this unplanned trilogy, & some decisions were just mind boggling (I'm still flabbergasted that they didn't even give us a throwaway line or ANYTHING about how Palpatine survived).

But god damn it if I didn't love it just the same. I'm a sucker. Give me some heart, some cool action scenes, & some epicness, & I'll follow your stupid ass movie anywhere you wanna take it. Can't say I disagree with all the reviews calling out its flaws, but I also can't say I wasn't absolutely smitten with this movie from beginning to end.

I'm glad you are aware of this mentality, but at the same time I really think it's destructive for modern movies. The motivating factor in getting people to the theater these days is no longer quality filmmaking-- it's brand loyalty, and specifically to a handful of brands that are controlled by the largest entertainment companies in the country.

This is a chart I made a couple years ago-- on the x-axis, we have years since 2001; on the y-axis, we have the number of weeks out of the year. The two lines represent the #1 movie in America each week, and whether it was based on a franchise or whether it was an original film.



As you can see, the difference is stark. We've gone from a roughly 50-50 split in the early 2000s to an era in which fewer than 30% of major high-grossing films are original. I'm willing to bet that the gap has only widened since then. This preponderance of unoriginal material is because consumers have begun to place disproportionate value on a handful of brands (DC comics, Marvel, Star Wars). This means that the companies that control those brands essentially have a monopoly on blockbuster films.

I wish that viewers would be more discerning with their taste, and that they would not reward sloppy, s**tty writing/direction with their money just because the movies are parts of franchises they love. Hell, I used to love Star Wars, but not to the point that I'd forgive the Prequels or Sequels for their transgressions against character development and coherent plotting. If all it takes to win your approval is lightsabers and space battles, then Disney will continue to put in the bare minimum amount of effort and your entertainment will keep getting worse. This is the same cult mentality that motivates Trump supporters.

I hope this movie massively underperforms at the box office (I've got my fingers crossed for a total gross under a billion). Only then will audiences have sent Disney the message it deserves.

[brucejoel99]

I feel like I'm the only one who came out of that movie who liked it. The beginning felt a bit rushed and I wish they did more build-up for the Emperor, but this felt whole and complete. I enjoyed every minute of it and loved pretty much every movie of the new trilogy.

Just got out of my screening & all I can say is this this this 1000x this.

I know this movie is full of flaws. The pacing was insane, the plot was crushed by the weight of the unevenness of this unplanned trilogy, & some decisions were just mind boggling (I'm still flabbergasted that they didn't even give us a throwaway line or ANYTHING about how Palpatine survived).

But god damn it if I didn't love it just the same. I'm a sucker. Give me some heart, some cool action scenes, & some epicness, & I'll follow your stupid ass movie anywhere you wanna take it. Can't say I disagree with all the reviews calling out its flaws, but I also can't say I wasn't absolutely smitten with this movie from beginning to end.

I'm glad you are aware of this mentality, but at the same time I really think it's destructive for modern movies. The motivating factor in getting people to the theater these days is no longer quality filmmaking-- it's brand loyalty, and specifically to a handful of brands that are controlled by the largest entertainment companies in the country.

This is a chart I made a couple years ago-- on the x-axis, we have years since 2001; on the y-axis, we have the number of weeks out of the year. The two lines represent the #1 movie in America each week, and whether it was based on a franchise or whether it was an original film.



As you can see, the difference is stark. We've gone from a roughly 50-50 split in the early 2000s to an era in which fewer than 30% of major high-grossing films are original. I'm willing to bet that the gap has only widened since then. This preponderance of unoriginal material is because consumers have begun to place disproportionate value on a handful of brands (DC comics, Marvel, Star Wars). This means that the companies that control those brands essentially have a monopoly on blockbuster films.

I wish that viewers would be more discerning with their taste, and that they would not reward sloppy, s**tty writing/direction with their money just because the movies are parts of franchises they love. Hell, I used to love Star Wars, but not to the point that I'd forgive the Prequels or Sequels for their transgressions against character development and coherent plotting. If all it takes to win your approval is lightsabers and space battles, then Disney will continue to put in the bare minimum amount of effort and your entertainment will keep getting worse. This is the same cult mentality that motivates Trump supporters.

I hope this movie massively underperforms at the box office (I've got my fingers crossed for a total gross under a billion). Only then will audiences have sent Disney the message it deserves.

Or or or, you could just not s**t on most movie-goers (& their tastes) simply because they wanna sit back & enjoy some spectacle for a couple hours.

You can't say Hollywood is losing creativity because of the top-grossing films. There's no correlation there. The correlation here is between top-grossing movies & what people will pay to see. Yes, these were the most fiscally successful movies of that year, but I don't think that anyone who's a true fan of film as an art form will argue that Pirates of the Caribbean or Marvel or even Star Wars are the most fulfilling movies out there. They're just the movies that everyone paid to go see. A night of entertainment, if you will, as opposed to a night of serious critical study like some of us do in our own homes.

As to why this is, there are many factors. These are the movies people choose to shell money out for to see in theaters for a reason: they're familiar. Familiar is good. Hollywood is a business, first & foremost, & selling your product is the most important thing possible. Especially when your product costs you upwards of $200 million to produce & has roughly a couple of months to make it back in spades. With that in mind, is the suit whose job it is to greenlight a movie to spend $200 million on going to choose the new Charlie Kaufman script or Terrence Malicks' new project? Or are they gonna try & use that money to lure Johnny Depp back into his pirate costume even though another sequel isn't really necessary? He chooses the latter. Why? Because, as parents of 3 (equaling 5 tickets in 1 person's decision), are you gonna take your family to see an introspective & mind-blowing film that may be very pretty but also very confusing? Or are you gonna take them to see characters they're familiar with in a big-budget sequel that'll make them laugh, make them feel, & make them excited? After paying $10+ per ticket & the ridiculous concessions prices, you're damn right people are gonna choose a film that they know will be entertaining. And who could blame them?

Advertising also has a lot to do with this, but it's for the same reasons. Advertising costs a s**t ton of money. Getting the trailer in front of the biggest releases months before the movie is released, countless TV spots, product placement (buy a pack of Dr. Pepper, why can't I hold all of these Marvel characters!?), internet space (go to IMDB.com & the background will surely be an elaborate ad for the newest big-budget film), & so on & so forth. It's all for the same reason. The studios are gonna advertise a movie that they know advertises itself. Spending all that money on advertising a philosophical film wouldn't pay off the same as advertising the new Star Wars.

"Hey, average movie-goer! I heard Tree of Life is great! And by heard it's great, I mean it has been pumped into my brain everywhere I look for the past month."

"Oh, hey other average movie-goer. I saw it. It was confusing, long, & I have no sense of beauty outside explosions, so I didn't enjoy it. Ignore all millions of dollars worth of advertising they pumped into you & go see the new Deadpool movie. It has dick jokes in it."

So, yeah, voting with their wallets. I realize this is less of a voting process & more of a mathematical process for the studio. If we get handsome & well-known actor & actress X & Y to do a sequel to ABC, even though there's no artistic need for a sequel, & if we then spend N on advertising, then we'll make all of those letters back plus the rest of the alphabet too. But we still do technically vote with our wallets. I would've never seen a Twilight movie in theaters, but millions of people did. Just like millions of people voted for Trump in 2016. Which means that Twilight made a s**t ton of money, & Trump became president. It doesn't matter if I voted for them; it matters what the masses did. Sometimes, I'm a part of those masses, & sometimes, I'm not. This year I went and saw Knives Out in theaters. Then I went and saw The Rise of Skywalker. In one situation, I was the masses; in the other, I was not. Both were great movies in their own right. Only one has the potential to break any box-office records.

So, is all of this a bad thing? Not really. Hollywood has perfected a money making formula. That money goes a lot of places. To the studios, who make more big-budget movies & make more money. To the actors, who now have the financial freedom to perfect their art. Look at Shia LaBeouf. He made a TON of money doing Micheal Bay movies, & then he was done. He's spent his time doing artistic indie movies, the kind of "original films" that you wanna see. And because of his name, they'd get more attention than they would've otherwise. Or Ryan Gosling. Gosling made a s**t ton of money because he did big budget movies & I, as a straight male, wanna have sex with him. Now, he gets to write scripts of his own. These are the "original movies" you wanna see, made possible by big-budget movies. Also, for every incredibly successful super box-office hit, a studio has the freedom to greenlight a couple of original works that may be a slightly bigger gamble as well as make the next big thing. Kind of like that idea that, if a popular director does a big-budget movie, the studio then lets them do whatever movie they want to make next in return for having made them such assloads of money, a-la Inception.

[Lumine]

Went in expecting a godawful disaster, found myself actually liking the movie. A few plot holes and an understandably frantic pacing, but a reasonably satisfactory conclusion in light of the very difficult challenge posed by Episode VIII. That it didn't thoroughly betray and/or ruin a beloved character like The Last Jedi did to Luke also helped.

I can see why the critics won't like it - there's plenty of valid criticism to make there - and a few things were missing (context mostly, all three of the movies have been bad at world-building) but I really hope it doesn't prove as divisive as VIII,

[7,052,770]

So is Palpatine really dead this time, or will he come back again in the next trilogy?

[Morgan Kingsley]

So is Palpatine really dead this time

I sure hope so

[Morgan Kingsley]

I will say it was cool to see a yellow lightsaber

[Trump Is A Maoist]

A few scenes REALLY worked. Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver were great. Overall very disappointing but the stuff I liked I REALLY REALLY liked.

[Frodo]

I think the best option is to enter the movie theater with (very) low expectations, and be as pleasantly surprised as some here seem to be. 

[Devout Centrist]

Not as good as The Last Jedi, but I had a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

I hope this movie massively underperforms at the box office (I've got my fingers crossed for a total gross under a billion). Only then will audiences have sent Disney the message it deserves.

If you want to 'send Disney a message', you'll vote for politicians (and judges) that support strict anti-trust jurisprudence.

[Mr. Smith]

Not as good as The Last Jedi, but I had a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

I hope this movie massively underperforms at the box office (I've got my fingers crossed for a total gross under a billion). Only then will audiences have sent Disney the message it deserves.

If you want to 'send Disney a message', you'll vote for politicians (and judges) that support strict anti-trust jurisprudence.

Well f&*k, if that's true, I'm doomed tomorrow. Absolutely doomed.

[brucejoel99]

So is Palpatine really dead this time, or will he come back again in the next trilogy?

"No one's ever really gone."

Not as good as The Last Jedi, but I had a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

I hope this movie massively underperforms at the box office (I've got my fingers crossed for a total gross under a billion). Only then will audiences have sent Disney the message it deserves.

If you want to 'send Disney a message', you'll vote for politicians (and judges) that support strict anti-trust jurisprudence.

Well f&*k, if that's true, I'm doomed tomorrow. Absolutely doomed.

Technically, he's right, in that it's "[n]ot as good as The Last Jedi." It's better.

[Sestak]

So I actually think that - GIVEN THE RIDICULOUS POSITION IN CANON THIS FILM WAS PUT IN BY THE PREVIOUS TWO - This film did fine.

I will also note, regarding the inevitable comparison to  the prequels, I will note that the current trilogy (bar maybe The Last Jedi) were actually engaging films that at least did the emotional drama properly. Sure, in terms of lore the prequels hold up quite a bit better, but as actual films at least the first two completely bland and emotionless affairs, with absolutely no reason for you to be engaged. And ultimately, Star Wars is a film series and the episodes need to be judged first as films, not just as puzzle pieces in the lore. So ultimately, this very clearly places TFA and TROS over I and II. Will have to think on it for a bit to evaluate the others, but at the very least these films were able to tell a story properly.