Matt Bevin's pardonpalooza--rapist and murders galore

[QAnonKelly]

What a dick

[Yoda]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

[Fuzzy Bear]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election. 

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

[Yoda]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election. 

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

Agreed.

But none of anything you said applies to the Bevin pardons we're discussing here. I'm finding it hard to understand how pardoning a monster whose family raised money for your reelection campaign is an example of a "legitimate" pardon.

[Fuzzy Bear]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election. 

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

Agreed.

But none of anything you said applies to the Bevin pardons we're discussing here. I'm finding it hard to understand how pardoning a monster whose family raised money for your reelection campaign is an example of a "legitimate" pardon.

The pardon power is legitimate if it is given by the Governor in Kentucky.  Period.  That it involved someone's donor or BFF is irrelelvant.  That these people had "connections" to the Governor is irrelevant to the legitimacy of the pardon.  If there is bribery, or selling of pardons, that is a crime, but it should NEVER undo the Pardon granted.  (If the pardoned person gets out of jail and was the one offering the bribe, let them go back to jail on a new offense.)

The ranting and railing against Bevin by Democrats is my issue.  Democrats, perhaps unwittingly, are undermining the ability of the Governor in Kentucky to issue pardons to make wrongs right.  We need MORE pardons, not fewer, in general.  We're tough enough on crime.  But the "tough on crime" crowd is likely to seize on Democrats' rants against Bevin to "reform" the pardon process to where it becomes easier to reject a pardon and/or harder to grant one.

[Pericles]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election. 

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

Agreed.

But none of anything you said applies to the Bevin pardons we're discussing here. I'm finding it hard to understand how pardoning a monster whose family raised money for your reelection campaign is an example of a "legitimate" pardon.

The pardon power is legitimate if it is given by the Governor in Kentucky.  Period.  That it involved someone's donor or BFF is irrelelvant.  That these people had "connections" to the Governor is irrelevant to the legitimacy of the pardon.  If there is bribery, or selling of pardons, that is a crime, but it should NEVER undo the Pardon granted.  (If the pardoned person gets out of jail and was the one offering the bribe, let them go back to jail on a new offense.)

The ranting and railing against Bevin by Democrats is my issue.  Democrats, perhaps unwittingly, are undermining the ability of the Governor in Kentucky to issue pardons to make wrongs right.  We need MORE pardons, not fewer, in general.  We're tough enough on crime.  But the "tough on crime" crowd is likely to seize on Democrats' rants against Bevin to "reform" the pardon process to where it becomes easier to reject a pardon and/or harder to grant one.

Pardoning seems like an archaic semi-monarchical process. If sentences are unfair (which often they are tbh) the justice system should be reformed so there is fairer sentencing. I think overall the criminal justice system should be focused more on rehabilitation. However arbitrary pardons distort the course of justice and Bevin's decision is the one that encourages the BS 'tough on crime' people. And Democrats are right to criticize him, what kind of democracy would exist if people can't criticize the bad decisions of their leaders?

[Fuzzy Bear]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election. 

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

Agreed.

But none of anything you said applies to the Bevin pardons we're discussing here. I'm finding it hard to understand how pardoning a monster whose family raised money for your reelection campaign is an example of a "legitimate" pardon.

The pardon power is legitimate if it is given by the Governor in Kentucky.  Period.  That it involved someone's donor or BFF is irrelelvant.  That these people had "connections" to the Governor is irrelevant to the legitimacy of the pardon.  If there is bribery, or selling of pardons, that is a crime, but it should NEVER undo the Pardon granted.  (If the pardoned person gets out of jail and was the one offering the bribe, let them go back to jail on a new offense.)

The ranting and railing against Bevin by Democrats is my issue.  Democrats, perhaps unwittingly, are undermining the ability of the Governor in Kentucky to issue pardons to make wrongs right.  We need MORE pardons, not fewer, in general.  We're tough enough on crime.  But the "tough on crime" crowd is likely to seize on Democrats' rants against Bevin to "reform" the pardon process to where it becomes easier to reject a pardon and/or harder to grant one.

Pardoning seems like an archaic semi-monarchical process. If sentences are unfair (which often they are tbh) the justice system should be reformed so there is fairer sentencing. I think overall the criminal justice system should be focused more on rehabilitation. However arbitrary pardons distort the course of justice and Bevin's decision is the one that encourages the BS 'tough on crime' people. And Democrats are right to criticize him, what kind of democracy would exist if people can't criticize the bad decisions of their leaders?

The Democrats have every right to criticize Bevin, but openly criticizing a Governor (now an ex-Governor) on this issue has the potential to invite LESS relief for the unjustly imprisoned by cutting back on the privilege, making it a "team decision" or limiting criteria.  As I have said before in this thread:  When it comes to appeals in sentencing, after a certain time period, innocence is not a ground for appeal.  It's fine to talk about equity in sentencing, sentencing reform, etc., but those issues are only relevant going forward, and resolving them does nothing for those who have been given Draconian sentences right now. 

Many of the imprisoned today were sentenced under sentencing laws and codes that strip judges of discretion and will not benefit from sentencing reform because those reforms often do not apply retroactively.  A Governor, acting alone. is often the only means by which justice or mercy can occur.  Is it really necessary to wake the sleeping giants that would use this "crisis" to cut back on the pardon power?  Is that "liberal"?  It's not always wise to "speak up" and "have your voice heard", even when you have every right to do so, and this is one of those times.  Let Bevin fade into obscurity.  It's happening before our very eyes.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Pardons probably shouldn't be granted without 2/3 majority approval from a non-partisan board of career civil servants evenly split between members appointed by the current and previous administrations.

[Yoda]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election.  

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

Agreed.

But none of anything you said applies to the Bevin pardons we're discussing here. I'm finding it hard to understand how pardoning a monster whose family raised money for your reelection campaign is an example of a "legitimate" pardon.

The pardon power is legitimate if it is given by the Governor in Kentucky.  Period.

Please point out to me where I stated that the pardon power itself is illegitimate. You're trying to equate "warranted" with "legitimate". If you didn't know, they're not the same thing. You're putting words in my mouth and arguing against those words, not what I'm saying. Read what I'm saying and argue with that if you want, but stop the strawman BS.

[Fuzzy Bear]

At least we can safely assume this POS plans on never running for office again. Pardoning a child rapist is way beyond the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

On a side note, just once I'd like to see a governor have the balls to make these types of insane, self-serving, unbelievably corrupt pardons before an election. Pinnacle of cowardice.

We are such an unforgiving and vindictive nation these days that we would begrudge a Governor from making a LEGITIMATE pardon before the election.  

That someone is GUILTY doesn't mean that they shouldn't be PARDONED.  That includes people who are convicted, but politically affiliated or politically connected.  The use of the pardon power should be exercised far more frequently than it is currently exercised.  That Bevin used it questionably does not alter that belief, IMO.  America is harmed more by unnecessarily Draconian sentencing and the unnecessary lifelong stigmatization of a criminal record than it is by a few ill-advised pardons by a HP who even Mitch McConnell doesn't like.

Agreed.

But none of anything you said applies to the Bevin pardons we're discussing here. I'm finding it hard to understand how pardoning a monster whose family raised money for your reelection campaign is an example of a "legitimate" pardon.

The pardon power is legitimate if it is given by the Governor in Kentucky.  Period.

Please point out to me where I stated that the pardon power itself is illegitimate. You're trying to equate "warranted" with "legitimate". If you didn't know, they're not the same thing. You're putting words in my mouth and arguing against those words, not what I'm saying. Read what I'm saying and argue with that if you want, but stop the strawman BS.

I would say that he Pardon power, vested in one executive, is warranted as well.

I also wholeheartedly oppose your proposal of a non-partisan board voting on pardons, with a 2/3 majority required.  How many times would some Hamlet hem and haw while a person rots in prison, sometimes due to a wrongful conviction.

I'm not defending Bevin, but I'm questioning the response to him.  The making noise about pardons in an environment where the response may well be to cut back the Pardon power completely.  That, to me is not an improvement.  I don't consider your proposal an improvement, either, because it would, IMO, result in more people staying in prison longer than is just.  A few cheesy pardons and sentence reductions is nowhere near the problem that being unable to immediately free a wrongfully imprisoned person is.