UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[DaWN]

Scottish Labour have been turning political incompetence into an art form for years now, this shouldn't be much of a surprise

[DaWN]

And now for the spectacle of it all going horrendously wrong

[DaWN]

It's time to start the rejoin campaign today.

At what point and under what circumstances is the British body politic allowed to start focusing on other issues?

When my side unequivocally wins.

So, never.

He has a point though. Brexit is an issue is not going to magically disappear, nor are the people who have become attached to either side going to detach that now that Brexit itself has happened. Remainers are angry, betrayed and no longer in the mood to compromise with the bigoted masses, while Leavers are triumphant, empowered and equally no longer in the mood to compromise with the metropolitan elite. The ideas and issues surrounding Brexit are now here to stay and going back to the old ways. Now I don't agree with Rejoin as a philosophy or a policy but the ideas that were behind the Remain campaign over the last few years are not going to disappear. Leavers underestimate those forces at their peril and the left (including Labour) underestimate its importance to the opposition to their government at their peril.

[DaWN]

It won't go away as an issue - much as it didn't after the 1970s! - but there's a fundamental difference between 'not going away' and 'absolutely dominating'.

I think you misunderstand somewhat - I don't mean the issue itself will dominate, I mean the divisions and cleavages that have been created by the issue will dominate. Even if Leave and Remain is not what is being argued, the two 'political camps' that have been created by the issue will be centre to whatever other issues are in the road ahead.

The intelligent thing for those in favour of British membership of the EU to do now would be to scale back and let the argument make itself. Much as it did fifty years ago.

This I absolutely agree with.

[DaWN]

Ignoring everything else, he's showing rather staggering ignorance regarding the British electorate. The number of people who voted Leave so we could be more neoliberal is probably in the single digits.

[DaWN]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?

The sooner Labour moves on from the Corbyn aberration the better.

So it will never be better then

[DaWN]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?

The sooner Labour moves on from the Corbyn aberration the better.

In historical terms, I suspect Blairism (or more specifically, the pro-war pro-privatisation late period version that people like you are so strangely fond of) will prove to be the real aberration.

And the "success" of Change UK shows how much appetite exists for it in the UK now.

There wasn't much of an appetite for Corbyn's Labour either. He was toxic. Pretty terrible when County Durham returns more Conservative MPs than Labour. Downright depressing in fact.

The logical conclusion to therefore draw is that neither approach is a successful one.

[DaWN]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

It was indeed terrible news for Ed Miliband when the SNP colluded with the Tories to make sure he lost.

And am I the only one who thinks it only being a tiny majority in favour of independence is actually not a good thing for the independence movement? After all the Brexit crap the numbers are only slightly higher than what they've been since like December 2014 or so? I don't see that pointing to inevitable victory.

[DaWN]

HS2 is certainly not a vanity project. It's a vital project in order to create capacity on a rail network that is stretched thin and increase regional connectivity. It is unfortunate the cost has spiralled out of control like it has but that is the way it is with British rail projects and it has been partially caused by the endless delay to construction caused by all the moaning anyway. I'm far from its biggest fan but I'm glad it's underway.

[DaWN]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51709639

'Raging egotists' refusal to promptly resign is going to leave the new Leader of the Opposition with less time than it takes to get really good results from teeth whitening strips to establish him/herself before a major set of local elections'

Discuss

[DaWN]

Does it matter in the slightest what the polls are saying now?

No but that hasn't stopped most online Conservatives wetting themselves with glee over them

[DaWN]

https://twitter.com/ldnyounglabour/status/1257728205022277632?s=21

This party are never winning again... are they

Perhaps all is not quite yet lost?

No, all is indeed apparently lost

[DaWN]

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1265301021552713734

This is insanity.

[DaWN]

There is also a survey in the Daily Mail with damning findings for the government over Cummings. Don't appear to be any VI figures though.

I suspect you've answered your own question there, presuming they're similar to the YouGuv ones from last night.

[DaWN]

It's just so nice to have a proper Leader of the Opposition and not... well, what we had before, right?

[DaWN]

Or it could just be that Corbyn was sh!t

[DaWN]

Three new polls tonight, all of which show a Tory lead in the region of 2/3 points. The tide has clearly shifted from a few weeks ago - will it shift any further?

[DaWN]

It also must be said that the election is in nearly a year's time, there's no telling what state the economy or the job market will be in and how much of that is perceived to be Holyrood's fault, never mind the fact that a strong campaign by either of Labour or the Tories could change things within weeks. There's also the fact that the only time since 2015 Labour have done well in Scotland was 2017, was when they were seen as credibly and seriously challenging for power nationwide. If Labour have a healthy lead in the national polls by then, who knows what could happen.

Also, am I the only one who thinks its really pathetic for Yes that despite everything that's happened, Brexit, Corbyn, Boris, etc. that they can only manage a 4-point lead? I think if indyref2 did happen it would have serious potential to backfire quite significantly on the SNP. We can only hope.

[DaWN]

Such a Labour party that it colluded with the Tories in 2015 to prevent the actual Labour party from winning! Give me a break.

[DaWN]

To be perfectly frank they are just playing the same role they've always played - attacking and undermining sensible strategy so they can pontificate and mouth off on Twitter about how awful everyone else is. Only now the leadership doesn't do the same thing, they stand out much more.

Luckily for Labour they are utterly irrelevant and every time they attack Starmer people like me like him even more.

[DaWN]

The current size of the majority is irrelevant for 2024. If the government is unpopular enough to lose, they will lose. If Labour is seen as credible enough to win, they will win. This was true even before voting patterns destabilised to the extent they have.

Will Labour be seen as credible enough to win is another question entirely but no non-time travellers know the answer to that so there isn't much point dwelling on it.

[DaWN]

That is precisely what I mean. Obsessing over swings and parliamentary arithmetic is pointless. If the government is unpopular enough and Labour credible enough, then Labour win. And that includes a decent performance in Scotland because it does not vote in a vacuum - see 2017 when most of the central belt was very competitive despite Labour being nowhere near a majority.

[DaWN]

Scottish Labour might be a party in a wretched state led by a man who would inspire more confidence as a toll booth operator, but even they aren't quite stupid enough to try that plan.

[DaWN]

Labour can put on 20 points tomorrow by committing to a second referendum and lose only 5 in response. They know that. But they can't do it. They are completely inert and this easily goes back twenty years.

I really don't understand this. Scottish Labour is supposed to be the Scottish part of a UK-wide left of centre movement - if it were to support independence it would completely lose this purpose. Unless you mean support a referendum but still support No... well I'm sure David Cameron can attest to what a great idea that is.

I might be alone here, but I think SLab's salvation (or return to enough relevance to provide UK Labour with enough seats to contribute to a nationwide majority, which should be the goal at this point) is completely independent (ha ha) of the constitutional question.

[DaWN]

An unfortunate no-win scenario for Starmer - he obviously had no choice but to sack her, but it's going to reopen quite a lot of wounds. The last thing Labour needs right now is the left growing an even bigger victim complex.