UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[EastAnglianLefty]

I’m very boring but it’s v interesting seeing how even politically engaged people seem to be angry that Bojo isn’t doing anything re the cost of living- he obviously isn’t going to make any fiscal commitments and does anyone really think him appearing on TV would help!

Besides I’m not sure what PM Raab would be doing?

The obvious answer is that the Tories should have got rid a lot earlier or made the contest shorter…

I thought the Brown line that Truss and Sunak should get together with Johnson to agree a package they could all sign up to was interesting for that reason - the longer it goes on the more uncertainty rises.

In the meantime, the fact that the government hasn't put out any messages about ways to reduce gas and electricity use is unusual - most previous governments would have started putting out messages about that months ago.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, and you might have thought Zahawi might be saying stuff along those lines as least.

What did he actually become Chancellor (however short lived it may be) *for*?

Apart from going on holiday, obviously.

[Torrain]

A perfect storm of cold weather and gas shortages could lead to a four-day blackout in January for big industries that heavily rely on energy - potentially expanding to households too.

Under the government's 'reasonable worst-case scenario' plans, Brits could face an electricity shortfall of around a sixth of demand, according to Bloomberg.

It means even with other back-ups in place - such as several coal plants being fired up - emergency measures may need to be triggered in order to conserve gas.

https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/government-plans-winter-blackouts-energy/

Obvious disclaimer that this is worst-case scenario planning, and we’re in the middle of silly season. But man do I have a gentle, but growing sense of alarm about this winter. The discussion of turning libraries and community centres into “warm banks” to keep the elderly from freezing really hasn’t helped.

[CumbrianLefty]

And if the worst happens, our FREE PRESS will still tell its captive boomer readership that trans people and "wokeness" are to blame (just look at today's ludicrous splash from the "paper of record")

There is no solution to our problems that doesn't involve burning our media to the ground, salting the earth, and starting again.

[Cassius]

Not being a ‘boomer’ I don’t have a Times subscription, but do share the article where the Times blamed the possibility of Winter blackouts on wokeness and transgender people.

[Property Representative of the Harold Holt Swimming Centre]

Not being a ‘boomer’ I don’t have a Times subscription, but do share the article where the Times blamed the possibility of Winter blackouts on wokeness and transgender people.

I'm not convinced it matters (in terms of public opinion) what any news service with a subscription model has to say about anything. Some politicians might give too much credence to them, but that's more of a problem with said politicians than with the news services in question.

[Badger]

Starmer is not doing "far" worse than Cameron, or "about as bad" as Miliband - unless, of course, you are going to do that time honoured online thing of selectively cherry picking your polls.

Yes, he is nowhere near where Blair was - but so what? I'm coming to the conclusion that mention of him in this context should be banned - he was a one off that we will likely never see again.

With respect, I'm not cherry-picking anything. The numbers above regarding the perception of how ready starmer is to form a labor government, even if to his benefit One Drops that particularly low 25% positive rating, puts him anywhere from 10 to 20 points behind David Cameron's results on that same question. And yes, his numbers are indeed close to identical, or possibly at most a point or two better on average, than what millibrands were.

 If one wishes to debate that the comparison here isn't applicable for whatever reasons, I'm all ears. But yes right now voters seem to have only about as much confidence in starmer being able to put together a labor government as they did Ed millibrands. Sorry, but them's the figures.

[gerritcole]

There was a very good program on Channel 4 about partition last night.

I don’t know what is more damning; how it’s largely airbrushed out of discussion in British politics or how it’s airbrushed out of discussion about the Attlee Government.

ive brought up this point before here and been told that the violence was inevitable/the situation was untenable/attlee had no direct involvement and blamed everything on radcliffe

[Joe Republic]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1554417700755181568

[nicholas.slaydon]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1554417700755181568

That guy is the literal embodiment of a Labour caricature of the Tories. God only knows how he ever made it onto the front bench.

[CumbrianLefty]

Not being a ‘boomer’ I don’t have a Times subscription, but do share the article where the Times blamed the possibility of Winter blackouts on wokeness and transgender people.

I'm not convinced it matters (in terms of public opinion) what any news service with a subscription model has to say about anything. Some politicians might give too much credence to them, but that's more of a problem with said politicians than with the news services in question.

I used to believe this - not least because of the way their actual dead tree sales are on an inexorable downward trend (you rarely see anybody younger than about 50 actually buying or reading a paper) But the sheer scale - and effectiveness - of the job they did on Corbyn's Labour in 2019 has made me reconsider that, unfortunately. They still have the broadcast news channels totally under their thumb, and their often both lurid and totally dishonest headlines still scream out at people from supermarkets and petrol station forecourts - and just those *do* influence many people.

Thinking back, this was always a no brainer. Why would megalomaniac plutocrats still invest so much in such apparently doomed causes, otherwise?

They know how public opinion is moulded and manipulated.

[afleitch]

It really does feel that things are collapsing doesn't it?

[YL]

Not being a ‘boomer’ I don’t have a Times subscription, but do share the article where the Times blamed the possibility of Winter blackouts on wokeness and transgender people.

I'm not convinced it matters (in terms of public opinion) what any news service with a subscription model has to say about anything. Some politicians might give too much credence to them, but that's more of a problem with said politicians than with the news services in question.

I used to believe this - not least because of the way their actual dead tree sales are on an inexorable downward trend (you rarely see anybody younger than about 50 actually buying or reading a paper) But the sheer scale - and effectiveness - of the job they did on Corbyn's Labour in 2019 has made me reconsider that, unfortunately. They still have the broadcast news channels totally under their thumb, and their often both lurid and totally dishonest headlines still scream out at people from supermarkets and petrol station forecourts - and just those *do* influence many people.

Thinking back, this was always a no brainer. Why would megalomaniac plutocrats still invest so much in such apparently doomed causes, otherwise?

They know how public opinion is moulded and manipulated.

Of course papers being mostly read by the over 50s could be related to the ridiculous age polarisation in the UK.

I think the other point is that it’s not clear how much effect the Murdoch press, with its subscription model, has compared to the Mail with its freely available and  regrettably widely read web presence.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Not being a ‘boomer’ I don’t have a Times subscription, but do share the article where the Times blamed the possibility of Winter blackouts on wokeness and transgender people.

I'm not convinced it matters (in terms of public opinion) what any news service with a subscription model has to say about anything. Some politicians might give too much credence to them, but that's more of a problem with said politicians than with the news services in question.

I used to believe this - not least because of the way their actual dead tree sales are on an inexorable downward trend (you rarely see anybody younger than about 50 actually buying or reading a paper) But the sheer scale - and effectiveness - of the job they did on Corbyn's Labour in 2019 has made me reconsider that, unfortunately. They still have the broadcast news channels totally under their thumb, and their often both lurid and totally dishonest headlines still scream out at people from supermarkets and petrol station forecourts - and just those *do* influence many people.

Thinking back, this was always a no brainer. Why would megalomaniac plutocrats still invest so much in such apparently doomed causes, otherwise?

They know how public opinion is moulded and manipulated.

My thought is that the newspaper's attitudes towards Corbyn did not substantially changed between 2017 and 2019, and in the former election the newspaper caterwauling had very little effect.

[CumbrianLefty]

Not being a ‘boomer’ I don’t have a Times subscription, but do share the article where the Times blamed the possibility of Winter blackouts on wokeness and transgender people.

I'm not convinced it matters (in terms of public opinion) what any news service with a subscription model has to say about anything. Some politicians might give too much credence to them, but that's more of a problem with said politicians than with the news services in question.

I used to believe this - not least because of the way their actual dead tree sales are on an inexorable downward trend (you rarely see anybody younger than about 50 actually buying or reading a paper) But the sheer scale - and effectiveness - of the job they did on Corbyn's Labour in 2019 has made me reconsider that, unfortunately. They still have the broadcast news channels totally under their thumb, and their often both lurid and totally dishonest headlines still scream out at people from supermarkets and petrol station forecourts - and just those *do* influence many people.

Thinking back, this was always a no brainer. Why would megalomaniac plutocrats still invest so much in such apparently doomed causes, otherwise?

They know how public opinion is moulded and manipulated.

My thought is that the newspaper's attitudes towards Corbyn did not substantially changed between 2017 and 2019, and in the former election the newspaper caterwauling had very little effect.

Yes and no - the media was just as hostile attidudinally in 2017, but with much less actual intensity. It is as if after being caught napping then, they ensured they didn't make the same mistake again.

2017 never had insanity such as blithely quoting verbatim actual alt-right websites, for example.

And it had the desired effect on the public. Whilst initially apprehensive Labour people were frequently pleasantly surprised by their actual reception in the first Corbyn GE, it was a very different story two years later. Quite apart from the actual instances of assault against party workers (almost unknown in 2017, and pretty much omerta'ed by the media who did so much to cause it) it was almost routine for canvassers to be greated with streams of invective that were quite often the latest bit of nonsense in that morning's papers almost word for word save for added expletives.

The media decided collectively (and this very much includes its "liberal" part) that a left wing Labour party had no legitimacy - and if they had anything to do with it, they would not be allowed to exist. I also think this is an underrated factor in why Starmer's version is so crushingly cautious now.

[Torrain]

Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards has had the whip restored after a long period as an independent. It was originally withdrawn after he was cautioned by the police in a substantiated incident of domestic abuse against his wife (divorce proceedings are ongoing):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-62507593

She’s understandably quite angry about this, and has denounced the party. It’s all quite ugly. I still think we have to find some way to amend the recall petition system, so those with serious character deficits can be held to account - without creating a situation where marginal MPs are triggered into by-elections on the whim of the parties.

[Coldstream]

Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards has had the whip restored after a long period as an independent. It was originally withdrawn after he was cautioned by the police in a substantiated incident of domestic abuse against his wife (divorce proceedings are ongoing):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-62507593

She’s understandably quite angry about this, and has denounced the party. It’s all quite ugly. I still think we have to find some way to amend the recall petition system, so those with serious character deficits can be held to account - without creating a situation where marginal MPs are triggered into by-elections on the whim of the parties.

From my understanding, after internal disciplinary procedures decided to readmit him to the party Plaid were worried that they’d be sued by not restoring the whip to him - which if true, suggests they need to seriously improve their constitution. Other party’s in Parliament have denied the whip to MPs that hold membership - Corbyn being the most notable recently.

[MaxQue]

Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards has had the whip restored after a long period as an independent. It was originally withdrawn after he was cautioned by the police in a substantiated incident of domestic abuse against his wife (divorce proceedings are ongoing):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-62507593

She’s understandably quite angry about this, and has denounced the party. It’s all quite ugly. I still think we have to find some way to amend the recall petition system, so those with serious character deficits can be held to account - without creating a situation where marginal MPs are triggered into by-elections on the whim of the parties.

From my understanding, after internal disciplinary procedures decided to readmit him to the party Plaid were worried that they’d be sued by not restoring the whip to him - which if true, suggests they need to seriously improve their constitution. Other party’s in Parliament have denied the whip to MPs that hold membership - Corbyn being the most notable recently.

Or get better lawyers.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I could make certain comments about both Plaid's internal structures and the quality of the sort of people they have giving them legal advice, but perhaps I'd best not. I'm easily identified and have enough going right now as it is.

[Torrain]

I could make certain comments about both Plaid's internal structures and the quality of the sort of people they have giving them legal advice, but perhaps I'd best not. I'm easily identified and have enough going right now as it is.

Ah - I hadn’t realised there was form for this kind of thing in Plaid. When I think of nationalist parties with a sex-pest problem, and a reluctance to discipline their members, my mind drifts to the north, rather than the south west of the country.

[CumbrianLefty]

Some people getting very excited that the Tories scraped a distant (and maybe never to be repeated) second place in his seat last time round. God bless

[icc]

Some people getting very excited that the Tories scraped a distant (and maybe never to be repeated) second place in his seat last time round. God bless

I mean I wouldn’t be getting excited about a potential by-election if I were them, but they did get close in 2019 - the majority is under 2,000 (only around 4%).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Long ago and far away.

[NewYorkExpress]

Scotland has become the first region in the world to mandate free menstrual products.

Menstrual products, including tampons and pads, will be made available free of charge in public facilities in Scotland from Monday, when the first law of its kind in the world came into force.

The Period Products bill was passed unanimously by Scottish lawmakers in November 2020, representing a landmark victory for the global movement against period poverty.

The new law means period products will be available to access in public buildings including schools and universities across Scotland. It will be the responsibility of local authorities and education providers to ensure the products are available free of charge.

[CumbrianLefty]

Some people getting very excited that the Tories scraped a distant (and maybe never to be repeated) second place in his seat last time round. God bless

I mean I wouldn’t be getting excited about a potential by-election if I were them, but they did get close in 2019 - the majority is under 2,000 (only around 4%).

I genuinely did not realise it was that close!

All other comments in this thread still apply, though.