UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Conservatopia]

McFall is perhaps best known for his role in the financial crash.

Alderdice came surprisingly close.  I suppose it's possible the NI situation may have helped him.  He is a former leader of the Alliance Party (Northern Ireland LD affiliate).

Hayter is from the right of Labour and according to Wikipedia:
was sacked as Shadow Brexit Minister for making what Labour called "deeply offensive" remarks at a Labour First group meeting, asserting that the party's leadership was not open to external views and comparing them to being "in a bunker" like the "last days of Hitler".

You’ve just changed your political matrix score, Conservatopia, to become even crazier

Nah I'm still your friendly neighborhood Patel-ite.

^ What did Lord McFall do in the crash?

Not a lot - that's the problem.

To be fair he wasn't really to blame but they say perception is reality.

Basically he was chair of the committee overseeing banking and some people say he didn't do a great deal before the crash to investigate what some saw as warning signs.  He was very zealous in the aftermath however.

[afleitch]

The mood of the nation.

https://twitter.com/Jimllpaintit/status/1380133270474604548

[Geoffrey Howe]

Nah I'm still your friendly neighborhood Patel-ite.

The two terms do not compute...I shouldn't move to Glos.

Not a lot - that's the problem.

To be fair he wasn't really to blame but they say perception is reality.

Basically he was chair of the committee overseeing banking and some people say he didn't do a great deal before the crash to investigate what some saw as warning signs.  He was very zealous in the aftermath however.

Ah, nothing that should disqualify him as Lord Speaker. Who did you support? Alderdice seems like a decent fellow. One wonders what makes a 'good' (Lord) Speaker.

[Conservatopia]

Nah I'm still your friendly neighborhood Patel-ite.

The two terms do not compute...I shouldn't move to Glos.

Not a lot - that's the problem.

To be fair he wasn't really to blame but they say perception is reality.

Basically he was chair of the committee overseeing banking and some people say he didn't do a great deal before the crash to investigate what some saw as warning signs.  He was very zealous in the aftermath however.

Ah, nothing that should disqualify him as Lord Speaker. Who did you support? Alderdice seems like a decent fellow. One wonders what makes a 'good' (Lord) Speaker.

You don't have to move to Glos and the West but you'd be a fool not to.

Best cider in the country, summer all year round, Welsh beaches only an hour away, picturesque villages, only one awful city (Bristol), balanced by one awesome city (Bath), home of Brunel who invented basically everything and whose visage greets you on every street, fantastic walks and scenery in the Cotswolds, the beautiful smell of manure, drystone walls, the Great Western Railway and a hilarious pirate accent.  What's not to like?

I supported McFall but unlike in the Commons Speaker election I didn't really care a great deal who won.  The Lord Speaker is even less of a political role than Commons Speaker.  No bellowing "order" and such like.  Alderdice being a Lib Dem hurt him because many in the two main parties can't countenance a Lib Dem being speaker.

[Conservatopia]

I supported McFall but unlike in the Commons Speaker election I didn't really care a great deal who won.  The Lord Speaker is even less of a political role than Commons Speaker.  No bellowing "order" and such like.  Alderdice being a Lib Dem hurt him because many in the two main parties can't countenance a Lib Dem being speaker.

Makes sense. Who did you support in the Commons speakership election? It was interesting that a Labour MP should be easily chosen in a landslide Tory House. I don't really know what the distinctions were between them all.

The Speaker election was before the general election bear in mind.

I supported Hoyle (Lab).  Many Tories backed him over Bryant (Lab) as they worried Bryant could be more inclined to be partisan.  Bryant was also a proud Remainer whilst Hoyle has never given any clues which way he voted in the referendum.  Hoyle has long been a highly respected MP and enjoyed broad support across the House.  This can be seen in the list of nominations with rightwingers such as Charles Walker, arch remainers like Joan Ryan and Brexit-curious Labourites like Caroline Flint all backing him.  After years of Bercow (a Tory) stymying them Tories weren't really too bothered to support an MP from the other side.  Leigh was the candidate of the Tory Right but I saw no sense in backing him because he clearly wasn't going to win.  Laing is also a Brexiteer Tory and came quite close but I was never too impressed with her performances as Deputy Speaker.

[Blair]

It was generally expected (although like a lot of parliamentary rules it was probably a lot newer than people thought) that the Speakers should rotate between the two main parties- this rule was broken by Michael Martin winning in 2000, where the Labour Government supported George Young but the sizeable Government backbenches wanted one of their own & elected Martin- who was rather inept.

Speaker elections tend to be very weird; the last one was made even weirder by the fact that it was done at the end of a hung parliament where a lot of MPs were not returning. The current Parliament would deliver a different vote & I actually expected that if Harman won she would have been deposed.

You also have to add in the fact that some MPs vote for their friends, others explicitly vote against others & some will just vote how the whips tell them.

Bryant was far the most qualified for the job, if qualified counts as being able to recount Erskine May from the chair or go back and forth with Rees-Mogg about the reformation. He understands Parliament & its history... which is surprising considering his early career (he was a Labour right winger who turned on Blair & was a loyal Brownite Minister... and had a rather low key but poor showing as a shadow minister)

[Torrain]

MPs state genocide is taking place in China

The House of Commons has declared for the first time that genocide is taking place against Uyghurs and others in north-west China.

More than a million people are estimated to have been detained at camps in the region of Xinjiang

The motion approved by MPs does not compel the UK to take action, but is a sign of growing discontent towards the Chinese government in Parliament.

Nice to feel proud of Parliament for once in a while.

No Nay votes either.

[Geoffrey Howe]

I supported McFall but unlike in the Commons Speaker election I didn't really care a great deal who won.  The Lord Speaker is even less of a political role than Commons Speaker.  No bellowing "order" and such like.  Alderdice being a Lib Dem hurt him because many in the two main parties can't countenance a Lib Dem being speaker.

Makes sense. Who did you support in the Commons speakership election? It was interesting that a Labour MP should be easily chosen in a landslide Tory House. I don't really know what the distinctions were between them all.

The Speaker election was before the general election bear in mind.

I supported Hoyle (Lab).  Many Tories backed him over Bryant (Lab) as they worried Bryant could be more inclined to be partisan.  Bryant was also a proud Remainer whilst Hoyle has never given any clues which way he voted in the referendum.  Hoyle has long been a highly respected MP and enjoyed broad support across the House.  This can be seen in the list of nominations with rightwingers such as Charles Walker, arch remainers like Joan Ryan and Brexit-curious Labourites like Caroline Flint all backing him.  After years of Bercow (a Tory) stymying them Tories weren't really too bothered to support an MP from the other side.  Leigh was the candidate of the Tory Right but I saw no sense in backing him because he clearly wasn't going to win.  Laing is also a Brexiteer Tory and came quite close but I was never too impressed with her performances as Deputy Speaker.

Ah yes it was before the election. This makes a lot of sense. Hoyle seems to wear a morning suit sometimes - Bercow never did? Or is this an illusion on my part?

[YL]

It was generally expected (although like a lot of parliamentary rules it was probably a lot newer than people thought) that the Speakers should rotate between the two main parties- this rule was broken by Michael Martin winning in 2000, where the Labour Government supported George Young but the sizeable Government backbenches wanted one of their own & elected Martin- who was rather inept.

It was a very young "rule" indeed in 2000.  For many years until Betty Boothroyd's election in 1992 Speakers had been members of the governing party at the time of their election, and there were four consecutive ex-Tory Speakers from 1928 until 1965.  It is perhaps becoming a more established rule now, though Bercow was very detatched from his party by the time of his election and was Labour's choice.

I think Martin was a poor choice, but some of the stick he got ("Gorbals Mick") was pretty nasty stuff.

[Geoffrey Howe]

It was generally expected (although like a lot of parliamentary rules it was probably a lot newer than people thought) that the Speakers should rotate between the two main parties- this rule was broken by Michael Martin winning in 2000, where the Labour Government supported George Young but the sizeable Government backbenches wanted one of their own & elected Martin- who was rather inept.

It was a very young "rule" indeed in 2000.  For many years until Betty Boothroyd's election in 1992 Speakers had been members of the governing party at the time of their election, and there were four consecutive ex-Tory Speakers from 1928 until 1965.  It is perhaps becoming a more established rule now, though Bercow was very detatched from his party by the time of his election and was Labour's choice.

I think Martin was a poor choice, but some of the stick he got ("Gorbals Mick") was pretty nasty stuff.

Looking back at some constituency results, it seems fairly recent that the main parties do not contest the Speaker's seat. There were some close results; the Speaker usually did as well after becoming Speaker for that party in the seat as before.

[Cassius]

CofE’s report on ‘racial justice’ has produced some decidedly... interesting suggestions for an organisation that’s currently reorganising parishes and cutting clergy from the payroll.

[YL]

Looking back at some constituency results, it seems fairly recent that the main parties do not contest the Speaker's seat. There were some close results; the Speaker usually did as well after becoming Speaker for that party in the seat as before.

The different parties have had different attitudes.  Bercow was actually the first ex-Tory speaker for some time not to have Labour opposition; they stood against Weatherill in 1987, Lloyd in 1974 and Hylton-Foster in 1964.  The Tories, though, have never put up a candidate against an ex-Labour Speaker, and indeed not since any Speaker since 1895.  (They were threatening to stand against Bercow if he stood again, though.)  Curiously the Liberals/SDP also stood against the ex-Tory speakers when Labour did, but not against the ex-Labour ones.

The Nationalist parties haven't stood down: the SNP stood against Martin in both 2001 and 2005, and Plaid also stood against George Thomas.

[CumbrianLefty]

Indeed the only opponents for Thomas in 1979 were an unholy alliance of Plaid and the NF.

[Geoffrey Howe]

Looking back at some constituency results, it seems fairly recent that the main parties do not contest the Speaker's seat. There were some close results; the Speaker usually did as well after becoming Speaker for that party in the seat as before.

The different parties have had different attitudes.  Bercow was actually the first ex-Tory speaker for some time not to have Labour opposition; they stood against Weatherill in 1987, Lloyd in 1974 and Hylton-Foster in 1964.  The Tories, though, have never put up a candidate against an ex-Labour Speaker, and indeed not since any Speaker since 1895.  (They were threatening to stand against Bercow if he stood again, though.)  Curiously the Liberals/SDP also stood against the ex-Tory speakers when Labour did, but not against the ex-Labour ones.

The Nationalist parties haven't stood down: the SNP stood against Martin in both 2001 and 2005, and Plaid also stood against George Thomas.

Ah, interesting to hear. Was there a central policy for the Tories on that? I wonder why Labour persisted.

[YL]

It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves.

Dominic Cummings today.

[Geoffrey Howe]

Unrelated to the substance of your post (sorry), how big is Mr Cummings' blog readership?

[YL]

Unrelated to the substance of your post (sorry), how big is Mr Cummings' blog readership?

I imagine a bit more than it was six hours ago.

(But that probably wasn't very high.)

[Blair]

Unrelated to the substance of your post (sorry), how big is Mr Cummings' blog readership?

Probably the only blog people still read.

I watched an old thick of it episode where they talked about political bloggers & it seemed extremely dated.

[CumbrianLefty]

There are still a few decent political blogs around, but yes its very much a niche thing these days.

[Silent Hunter]

I have a blog still.

[CumbrianLefty]

So it seems like number 10 might have been briefing against Dom.

The sort of thing that civil servants have traditionally described as "brave".

[CumbrianLefty]

And in retaliation, we have this morning's Daily Mail front page.

(and more stuff in that vein very possibly to come)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It seems that multiple sources have confirmed the 'bodies could pile high' quote, which doesn't come as a major surprise - it is an excellent example of his speaking style, especially the tendency for unnecessary little flourishes.

[Blair]

I very much think that the flat story is the one most likely to cause damage here...

[YL]

I very much think that the flat story is the one most likely to cause damage here...

It tends to be the drip-drip of repeated stories that really does the damage, but I agree that one could be bad for him, depending on what actually happened and how much gets out.

As someone who has never got the appeal of Johnson, though, I'm not in the best position to judge what will get people who like him to change their minds.