UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[cp]

Seems like Starmer is the real deal, he’s not screwing around. If he takes Labour back in a more Blairist direction, I might root for them again.

He does seem like a credible leader, I prefer him to Corbyn for sure. But hopefully his policies aren't like the 2000s, but he can take a lot of the good stuff from the 2017 manifesto and be a more credible messenger for it.

That's the best case scenario. Sadly, it's highly unlikely. We'll need a new leader in order to build on the progress made in 2017.

[Alcibiades]

Seems like Starmer is the real deal, he’s not screwing around. If he takes Labour back in a more Blairist direction, I might root for them again.

He does seem like a credible leader, I prefer him to Corbyn for sure. But hopefully his policies aren't like the 2000s, but he can take a lot of the good stuff from the 2017 manifesto and be a more credible messenger for it.

That's the best case scenario. Sadly, it's highly unlikely. We'll need a new leader in order to build on the progress made in 2017.

Not a loaded question, just genuinely curious: how do you think Labour progressed under Corbyn? Obviously you think that their policies have become better and more beneficial to society, but do you actually think they’ve become more electable, and does that matter to you?

[GenerationTerrorist]

Well, I like(d) Corbyn a lot as a person, with his principled stands on things over the years like the Iraq war. However, his failure at almost every opportunity during the 2019 Election campaign to simply say "Yes, I'm sorry" when pressed regarding the (clear as mud) Anti-Semitism accusations, with him at the head of the party, were really off-putting to me.

I don't believe Corbyn is an Anti-Semite as a person. I feel the complete opposite, actually. However, he was woefully out of touch when it came to responding to these matters in a forceful and decisive manner.

Whilst I have been very impressed so far with Starmer (I voted for him as Leader), I have a nagging feeling that this could come back on him somehow, given he was in Corbyn's Cabinet for nearly the whole time the Anti-Semitism accusations were being made and seemed to do precisely nothing himself.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Starmer would be delighted for the Tory attack on him to be "5 years ago he didn't say x about Corbyn."

[cp]

Seems like Starmer is the real deal, he’s not screwing around. If he takes Labour back in a more Blairist direction, I might root for them again.

He does seem like a credible leader, I prefer him to Corbyn for sure. But hopefully his policies aren't like the 2000s, but he can take a lot of the good stuff from the 2017 manifesto and be a more credible messenger for it.

That's the best case scenario. Sadly, it's highly unlikely. We'll need a new leader in order to build on the progress made in 2017.

Not a loaded question, just genuinely curious: how do you think Labour progressed under Corbyn? Obviously you think that their policies have become better and more beneficial to society, but do you actually think they’ve become more electable, and does that matter to you?

Labour was clearly closer to government under Corbyn in 2017 than it was under Milliband in 2015 or (prospectively) Brown in 2010. Despite the propaganda at the time and afterwards, Corbyn's brand of disruptive leftist politics chimed with the electorate better than May's 'strong and steady' reactionary bullsh**t or the Labour right's apologetic neoliberal capitulation.

Corbyn's election was also a desperately needed dose of reality to the unreconstructed Blairites whose entitled attitude toward the party, and politics in general, was just as toxic as their despicable policy programme. Put another way, Corbyn reminded a lot of Labour members/MPs that after 13 years of Blairite selling out, they had to actually offer an alternative, not just promise to shave off the inequities of the Tory-New-Labour status quo.

There's no way to deny that Corbyn's gambit came up short. I'm inclined to think this was as much to do with deliberate and tacit sabotage by his ideological opponents in Labour as it was to do with its own shortcomings, but it's a moot point now. I think the party needed to jettison the assumptions of the Blair/Brown/Milliband era, and that it, and the country, are better off for it in the long run. I also think Corbyn's tenure will inoculate the party against shallow careerists, at least for a little while, though that might be a bit naive on my part.

I desperately wish there had been a Labour government this year, and in 2016, and in 2011. Politics without power is too slow for my taste. But a warmed over New Labour government would have been a chimera of progress at best (as it was in the first case), and ultimately only served the interests of the well-off and the well-connected.

[GALeftist]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

We literally had a general election last year where Labour's entire strategy was predicated on a "youthquake" surge in youth turnout that never materialised...

[Silent Hunter]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

We literally had a general election last year where Labour's entire strategy was predicated on a "youthquake" surge in youth turnout that never materialised...

It would be ironic if we have a youthquake now in the US election.

[afleitch]

BBC banning staff from Pride as it could breach impartiality rules.

[GenerationTerrorist]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

Not to generalise an entire voting block, as someone who was a first time voter (happily voting for the Lib Dems) at 21 in the 2001 Election....Man, I feel old just saying that....Much of the politics of the past 5 years or so seems to be waged on Social Media, then young people forgetting to actually vote.

[Red Velvet]

Corbyn suspended from Labour over EHRC report.

Wow. UK is truly hopeless, but Scotland could maybe have salvation one day.

[PSOL]

So is a purge or a mass desertion of Momentum from the Labor Party going to happen or not?

[EastAnglianLefty]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

We literally had a general election last year where Labour's entire strategy was predicated on a "youthquake" surge in youth turnout that never materialised...

It doesn't help that both sides of the argument seem to think it's just about getting the under-25s to vote more, when in fact the increased electoral salience of 'youth' issues is because they increasingly affect everybody under the age of about 45 (and the 25 to 34 bracket actually tends to be more strongly Labour than 18 to 24 year olds, because they're less likely to be cushioned from the full realities of the housing and labour markets.)

[Blair]

I'm not sure how big a problem it is (and obviously applies to some seats more than others) but there's a big failure in that a lot of people in politics think that 18-24 year olds & students are the same thing.

[CumbrianLefty]

So is a purge or a mass desertion of Momentum from the Labor Party going to happen or not?

At this stage, still unlikely.

Of course, if Starmer really *did* go for purging the left en masse that could change.

[Blair]

Note the fieldwork date but something no doubt that Starmers team will be pointing to...

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1309930873068945408

[CumbrianLefty]

Thought that Opinium polls came out on Saturday night for the following day's Observer?

Two other polls today have shown Labour ahead, however (including Ipsos-MORI showing them leading by 42-37, *their* biggest margin for the reds since 2014)

All taken before yesterday, though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

We literally had a general election last year where Labour's entire strategy was predicated on a "youthquake" surge in youth turnout that never materialised...

A remarkable strategy indeed in an old country (in all senses) like this one. And one made all the more remarkable by a (common, narcissistic) tendency to conflate the interests and priorities of younger professionals with 'all young and young-ish people'.

[bore]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

Not to generalise an entire voting block, as someone who was a first time voter (happily voting for the Lib Dems) at 21 in the 2001 Election....Man, I feel old just saying that....Much of the politics of the past 5 years or so seems to be waged on Social Media, then young people forgetting to actually vote.

I would hazard a guess that there is almost no overlap between young people who post about politics on social media and young people who don't vote.

[cp]

Note the fieldwork date but something no doubt that Starmers team will be pointing to...

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1309930873068945408

No doubt in a desperate attempt to distract from this ...

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1322213828600438785

[Blair]

But equally the YouGov poll found that even Labour voters approved of the decison?

[cp]

But equally the YouGov poll found that even Labour voters approved of the decison?

A function of exhaustion, groupthink, and capitulation more than conviction, I suspect. The centrist stitch up is complete.

[Estrella]

BBC banning staff from Pride as it could breach impartiality rules.

Hilariously hypocritical from a company that publishes things like this. The original version of the guidance apparently banned participation even in personal capacity (and still includes a bizarre rule against "virtue signalling"), but now they're waffling about it being allowed if it's not "politicised or contested".

I still don't understand how unconvincingly pretending that queer people don't work there would make BBC seem more impartial to right-wing chronical complainers, but I digress.

[Serenity Now]

BBC banning staff from Pride as it could breach impartiality rules.

Good grief

[Pericles]

It's long past time for this, but it's good news. Hopefully this is accurate and the situation can get under control, stay safe England.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/30/save-christmas-with-covid-lockdown-in-england-experts-say