UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[YL]

Chris Grayling has lost his bid to become the next chair of the Intelligience and Security Committee.

He was offered this plum job in exchange for keeping quiet & was rightly seen as a lackey for No.10 on a committee which is usually extremely non-political & vital in overseeing MI5 & MI6 (there's a fascinating comparison in oversight of the CIA & MI6)

He lost to the Conservative MP Julian Lewis, who is himself a character. But he is at least qualified & independently minded.

This is notable because the Russia report is expected to come out & because No.10 spent the last 3 months trying to find suitable backbenchers to put on here who they could trust would vote for Grayling; a serious blow for the Whips Office & No.10

And then in a characteristic display of petulance the Government has removed the whip from Julian Lewis.

[Cassius]

Of course, Julian Lewis has past form with political espionage and skulduggery, so his outwitting the government whips on this one isn’t unexpected.

[Blair]

It's now quite worrying to read the Tories might try and force a vote to remove him from the committee; it was reported this was not possible because of the committee having seperate legislative standing... but I'm not an expert.

I'm not actually sure there would be the votes for this; unless they do it on the last day before recess when they hope to cash in on MPs not physically being in Westminster. MPs are always the most likely to rebel on issues like these...

Baffling to do this all over a chairmanship of a committee. The biggest takeaway is that it's now possible to claim that all MPs, not just those on the payroll, are bound to vote in line with the whips in Select Committee elctions... we use to at least let them be free contests!

Of course, Julian Lewis has past form with political espionage and skulduggery, so his outwitting the government whips on this one isn’t unexpected.

Does he- what's he done before?

[Silent Hunter]

I suspect the report itself will be pretty deeply embarrassing to the Government, but the central charge made by many that Putin is bankrolling the Conservative Party won't be backed up.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Of course, Julian Lewis has past form with political espionage and skulduggery, so his outwitting the government whips on this one isn’t unexpected.

Allowing him to be the potential critical vote (on a committee that also counts Kevan Jones as a member...) is serious 'I never thought the leopards would eat MY face' territory, incredible.

[Cassius]

It's now quite worrying to read the Tories might try and force a vote to remove him from the committee; it was reported this was not possible because of the committee having seperate legislative standing... but I'm not an expert.

I'm not actually sure there would be the votes for this; unless they do it on the last day before recess when they hope to cash in on MPs not physically being in Westminster. MPs are always the most likely to rebel on issues like these...

Baffling to do this all over a chairmanship of a committee. The biggest takeaway is that it's now possible to claim that all MPs, not just those on the payroll, are bound to vote in line with the whips in Select Committee elctions... we use to at least let them be free contests!

Of course, Julian Lewis has past form with political espionage and skulduggery, so his outwitting the government whips on this one isn’t unexpected.

Does he- what's he done before?

Basically, back in the 1970’s, he posed as a Labour moderate in order to infiltrate the Newham North East branch of the Labour Party (which itself had been infiltrated by the Militant Tendency) in order to try and overturn the deselection of right-wing Labour minister Reg Prentice. He did briefly manage to wield some influence in the CLP, although he failed to overturn Prentice’s deselection, so the latter crossed the floor to the Conservatives and wound up serving as a junior minister in the first Thatcher government.

I’m not sure how much is true, but it’s a nice little anecdote.

[Blair]

It's baffling though why so much energy is being wasted on this position.

It's not as if there's a massive split within the party about intelligience issues & the committee is already relatively constrained by the PM.

The Russia Report isn't likely to be groundbreaking based on what's been briefed. There will be little new news in terms of the Tory Party.

The funny thing is that yes it was a joke to give it to Grayling but they're burning a lot of bridges on something that makes very little difference regardless of who is chair; it's just another way of scaring the new Tory MPs & weakening the scrunity of Prime Minister Rayner in 2027

[CumbrianLefty]

And the committee have now said - unanimously - that they intend to publish the Russia report before parliament rises for its summer recess next week.

Another "galaxy brain" move from Cummings gone wrong?

[Silent Hunter]

When I heard of the defection of Prentice, it made a certain character from Roger Moore's James Bond movies a bit less implausible.

[Alcibiades]

And the committee have now said - unanimously - that they intend to publish the Russia report before parliament rises for its summer recess next week.

Another "galaxy brain" move from Cummings gone wrong?

It is Trumpian petulance. Cummings may or may not be a “genius”, first and foremost he is a man (like Boris) who is not tolerant of not getting his own way.

[CumbrianLefty]

It's now quite worrying to read the Tories might try and force a vote to remove him from the committee; it was reported this was not possible because of the committee having seperate legislative standing... but I'm not an expert.

I'm not actually sure there would be the votes for this; unless they do it on the last day before recess when they hope to cash in on MPs not physically being in Westminster. MPs are always the most likely to rebel on issues like these...

Baffling to do this all over a chairmanship of a committee. The biggest takeaway is that it's now possible to claim that all MPs, not just those on the payroll, are bound to vote in line with the whips in Select Committee elctions... we use to at least let them be free contests!

Of course, Julian Lewis has past form with political espionage and skulduggery, so his outwitting the government whips on this one isn’t unexpected.

Does he- what's he done before?

Basically, back in the 1970’s, he posed as a Labour moderate in order to infiltrate the Newham North East branch of the Labour Party (which itself had been infiltrated by the Militant Tendency) in order to try and overturn the deselection of right-wing Labour minister Reg Prentice. He did briefly manage to wield some influence in the CLP, although he failed to overturn Prentice’s deselection, so the latter crossed the floor to the Conservatives and wound up serving as a junior minister in the first Thatcher government.

I’m not sure how much is true, but it’s a nice little anecdote.

Its all pretty well documented, the Prentice business was a real cause celebre at the time (and his defection was a serious blow to the Labour right as it "confirmed" left wing folk myths about them)

[DaWN]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

[Cassius]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

Yes, there were a few rather rum coves swept into parliament on the back of the Tories good performance in Wales at the last election.

Meanwhile, the long awaited (longer awaited than the arrival of the Messiah probably) Russia report by the Intelligence and Security Committee has been published... and it’s basically a a bland summation of things that everybody with a vague interest in Russia knew about already (with the caveat that, as an ISC report, it has been heavily redacted). Nonetheless many of the usual suspects are trying to make a feast out of this very thin gruel.

http://isc.independent.gov.uk/committee-reports

Not actually sure why the government bothered to hold back its publication for so long.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

If it happens, only the second in a Tory-Labour marginal since 2010.

[DaWN]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

If it happens, only the second in a Tory-Labour marginal since 2010.

Fourth surely? Corby, Copeland and Peterborough?

[Zinneke]

So. Russia Report.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

If it happens, only the second in a Tory-Labour marginal since 2010.

Fourth surely? Corby, Copeland and Peterborough?

Note the order......

(ie Copeland and Peterborough were *Labour-Tory* marginals)

[DaWN]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

If it happens, only the second in a Tory-Labour marginal since 2010.

Fourth surely? Corby, Copeland and Peterborough?

Note the order......

(ie Copeland and Peterborough were *Labour-Tory* marginals)

Oh I see

On a wider point, if this does go ahead, it will be a make-or-break momeent for Labour

[Blair]

It would be interesting as you'd have an extremely credible argument for the writ to be delayed; it's not safe currently to carry out elections & both parties would hate it.

My best guess is that this goes through the new all singing & dancing complaints process & he's forced to apologise & go on some sort of training; this also isn't exactly new information for those who read Guido either but it's digusting. Baffling of course how he hasn't lost the whip.

Labour would be favoured in a by-election; Dave Hanson losing was one of the bigger shocks & Welsh Labour are very well organised.

[Blair]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

Yes, there were a few rather rum coves swept into parliament on the back of the Tories good performance in Wales at the last election.

Meanwhile, the long awaited (longer awaited than the arrival of the Messiah probably) Russia report by the Intelligence and Security Committee has been published... and it’s basically a a bland summation of things that everybody with a vague interest in Russia knew about already (with the caveat that, as an ISC report, it has been heavily redacted). Nonetheless many of the usual suspects are trying to make a feast out of this very thin gruel.

http://isc.independent.gov.uk/committee-reports

Not actually sure why the government bothered to hold back its publication for so long.

I skimmed it this morning & there wasn't anything that shocking; beyond the reports about how slow MI5 are to pick up on Russian intelligience work in London.

This of course is the natural extension of politicians spending 20 years telling them they need to stop the next 9/11; and frankly the number of recent cases show they're not exactly on top of that.

The most concerning part of this for me wasn't Brexit but rather the influence culture & money laundering that exists across London; this has been an open & discussed secret and I imagine hands from all sides would be burnt if anything was done to examine this.

[CumbrianLefty]

It would be interesting as you'd have an extremely credible argument for the writ to be delayed; it's not safe currently to carry out elections & both parties would hate it.

My best guess is that this goes through the new all singing & dancing complaints process & he's forced to apologise & go on some sort of training; this also isn't exactly new information for those who read Guido either but it's digusting. Baffling of course how he hasn't lost the whip.

Labour would be favoured in a by-election; Dave Hanson losing was one of the bigger shocks & Welsh Labour are very well organised.

Well the default position for Tories/government under Johnson seems to be "brazen it out no matter how damning the actual evidence", so I'm not getting my hopes up about anything happening. Unless even more stuff comes out, perhaps......

[Blair]

It would be interesting as you'd have an extremely credible argument for the writ to be delayed; it's not safe currently to carry out elections & both parties would hate it.

My best guess is that this goes through the new all singing & dancing complaints process & he's forced to apologise & go on some sort of training; this also isn't exactly new information for those who read Guido either but it's digusting. Baffling of course how he hasn't lost the whip.

Labour would be favoured in a by-election; Dave Hanson losing was one of the bigger shocks & Welsh Labour are very well organised.

Well the default position for Tories/government under Johnson seems to be "brazen it out no matter how damning the actual evidence", so I'm not getting my hopes up about anything happening. Unless even more stuff comes out, perhaps......

Honestly with such a large majority it's almost worth less hassle to the party whips...

[Cassius]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53472289

I suspect we may have a candidate for first by-election of the new parliament

Yes, there were a few rather rum coves swept into parliament on the back of the Tories good performance in Wales at the last election.

Meanwhile, the long awaited (longer awaited than the arrival of the Messiah probably) Russia report by the Intelligence and Security Committee has been published... and it’s basically a a bland summation of things that everybody with a vague interest in Russia knew about already (with the caveat that, as an ISC report, it has been heavily redacted). Nonetheless many of the usual suspects are trying to make a feast out of this very thin gruel.

http://isc.independent.gov.uk/committee-reports

Not actually sure why the government bothered to hold back its publication for so long.

I skimmed it this morning & there wasn't anything that shocking; beyond the reports about how slow MI5 are to pick up on Russian intelligience work in London.

This of course is the natural extension of politicians spending 20 years telling them they need to stop the next 9/11; and frankly the number of recent cases show they're not exactly on top of that.

The most concerning part of this for me wasn't Brexit but rather the influence culture & money laundering that exists across London; this has been an open & discussed secret and I imagine hands from all sides would be burnt if anything was done to examine this.

Agreed, that is probably the aspect of the report with the most substance - however, it’s possibly a little dated, as Russian investment in London has actually been declining for several years due to the new anti-money laundering regulations (UWO’s et al) brought in by the government and the increasingly hostile attitude of the British government towards Russia (particularly post Skripal). I think it would be the Blair, Brown and Cameron governments that would come off the worst in any investigation into Russian money laundering in this country.

[Silent Hunter]

The failure to order an investigation into the Brexit referendum is the big takeaway there. I don't know why Cameron and May, both Remainers, didn't order one though. Fear of a backlash from Leavers?

[EastAnglianLefty]

I think the failure to investigate alleged Russian attempts to influence the independence referendum are more striking. The alleged attempts were for the losing side, so they couldn't be accused of having influenced the result, and any backlash would have been from people who were unlikely to vote Conservative anyway, so that one seems like it would have been more of a freebie.