UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[OSR stands with Israel]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Lol at that being news , anyway the real monarch of the UK now is Boris Johnson, just like how it was Blair from 1997-2005 and Thatcher was in the 1980s

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Lol at that being news , anyway the real monarch of the UK now is Boris Johnson, just like how it was Blair from 1997-2005 and Thatcher was in the 1980s

Well...yeah, a British PM with a strong majority can do to the country essentially whatever the hell he or she likes, to a point that even US Presidents with pronounced authoritarian leanings like FDR or Trump could only dream of, but to say that that constitutes being "the real monarch" shows a pretty off-base understanding of what the British monarchy is (ostensibly) there for.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Lol at that being news , anyway the real monarch of the UK now is Boris Johnson, just like how it was Blair from 1997-2005 and Thatcher was in the 1980s

Well...yeah, a British PM with a strong majority can do to the country essentially whatever the hell he or she likes, to a point that even US Presidents with pronounced authoritarian leanings like FDR or Trump could only dream of, but to say that that constitutes being "the real monarch" shows a pretty off-base understanding of what the British monarchy is (ostensibly) there for.

The Queen has almost no actual power now, other than symbolic power .

[afleitch]

"Scottish Labour is considering backing a second independence referendum in a dramatic reversal of policy by the party leader, Richard Leonard.

Party sources have told the Guardian that Leonard will raise that possibility at Labour’s Scottish executive committee on Saturday, where it could also discuss demands for it to split formally from the UK Labour party."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/scottish-labour-could-back-independence-referendum-indyref2

This surely can't have majority support in what remains of Scottish Labour, can it?

The party is probably still split, but I would say there is a loud faction who's identity is Unionist first, Labour second who won't be too enthusiastic.

[CumbrianLefty]

The point is, some in SLab may have noted that the strident pro-unionist approach might work OK for Ian Murray - but rather less well for everybody else. There are no obvious or easy ways back to relevance, but a willingness to consider different tactics can't be bad in itself.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Lol at that being news , anyway the real monarch of the UK now is Boris Johnson, just like how it was Blair from 1997-2005 and Thatcher was in the 1980s

Might only become relevant if Meghan decides to run for office in the U.S one day.

The idea of Prince Harry becoming First Gentlemen of California or even the United States has something hilarious.

[DaWN]

Scottish Labour have been turning political incompetence into an art form for years now, this shouldn't be much of a surprise

[CumbrianLefty]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Major upheavals coming for the British monarchy in the next few years, almost inevitably. At a time of more general instability, even some not enthusiastic about the institution will view that with some concern.

[The Mikado]

Boris is already proving to be the best Tory PM since Thatcher

He's objectively the worst PM in modern history, let alone since Thatcher.

Callaghan was clearly worse and objectively so were Brown and May . He still is behind Thatcher and Blair no doubt but Major barely got anything done and Cameron undermined his own legacy.

"Greatest" or "worst" are often too colored by partisan views, but Boris is certainly set up to be the most consequential Conservative PM since Thatcher

I'm not sure how you can give him "most consequential" when Cameron got the ball rolling on so many things. He allowed the first Scottish Independence Referendum, which revealed that independence sentiment is way stronger than many gave it credit for before (sure, it went down towards the end, but if you told someone in 2013 that Scotland in 2014 would only vote to stay in the UK 55-45, that'd be seen as far lower than anyone would expect). He allowed the Brexit referendum, and without a referendum Brexit never would have happened.

[PSOL]

Samira Ahmed wins sex discrimination equal pay claim against BBC

Samira Ahmed has won a sex discrimination pay claim against the BBC in a landmark case that leaves the BBC facing the prospect of a huge bill for similar claims.

In a judgment published on Friday, after the tribunal ended in early November, judges were damning of the broadcaster’s argument that Ahmed’s job as presenter of the audience feedback show Newswatch was significantly different to Jeremy Vine’s as a presenter of Points of View.

Ahmed had argued she was owed almost £700,000 in back pay because of the difference between her £440-an-episode rate and the £3,000 an episode Vine received.

The judges dismissed the BBC’s argument that Points of View required a “cheeky” presenter with a “glint in the eye”, concluding that there were only “minor differences” on the work the pair did presenting the two comparable programmes.

[Silent Hunter]

With no leverage in Westminster anymore, the DUP had to go back to Stormont.

[afleitch]

With no leverage in Westminster anymore, the DUP had to go back to Stormont.

Not having to power share with Cath... I mean Sinn Fein and pulling the strings in a direct rule government suited them to a tee. It's what they openly want. Then they lost big on the gays and the women and so really have nothing else to do but go crawling back to Stormont.

[Lechasseur]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Lol at that being news , anyway the real monarch of the UK now is Boris Johnson, just like how it was Blair from 1997-2005 and Thatcher was in the 1980s

Well...yeah, a British PM with a strong majority can do to the country essentially whatever the hell he or she likes, to a point that even US Presidents with pronounced authoritarian leanings like FDR or Trump could only dream of, but to say that that constitutes being "the real monarch" shows a pretty off-base understanding of what the British monarchy is (ostensibly) there for.

Exactly

[Lechasseur]

"Scottish Labour is considering backing a second independence referendum in a dramatic reversal of policy by the party leader, Richard Leonard.

Party sources have told the Guardian that Leonard will raise that possibility at Labour’s Scottish executive committee on Saturday, where it could also discuss demands for it to split formally from the UK Labour party."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/scottish-labour-could-back-independence-referendum-indyref2

This surely can't have majority support in what remains of Scottish Labour, can it?

The party is probably still split, but I would say there is a loud faction who's identity is Unionist first, Labour second who won't be too enthusiastic.

Sounds like political suicide to me

Like what do they have to gain by becoming an SNP clone? If anything I imagine you have more left wing voters in Scotland than pro independance voters.

If they become pro independance they may as well dissolve and merge with the SNP because I dont see how they'd be relevant in the slightest

They'd probably lose whatever votes they still have to the SNP (left-wingers first) and Tories (unionists first)

[Lechasseur]

Bad move the independence vote is for the SNP regardless while English voters will react badly to Labour' position here (and even if Labour gains votes in Scotland it is not worth losing votes in marginals against the Tories in England).

Exactly

But like I said above, I think they lose their votes in Scotland too at that point.

This makes zero sense for them to do

[Lechasseur]

Good. This is the SNP's price, and Labour must be ready to pay it.

Tbh I think people knowing that was one of the factors that caused labour to suffer it's worst defeat since the 1930s

[Lechasseur]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Major upheavals coming for the British monarchy in the next few years, almost inevitably. At a time of more general instability, even some not enthusiastic about the institution will view that with some concern.

Which type of upheavals are you thinking of?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good. This is the SNP's price, and Labour must be ready to pay it.

Tbh I think people knowing that was one of the factors that caused labour to suffer it's worst defeat since the 1930s

You can make that claim for 2015, but I really don't think it played a major role in either 2017 or 2019. Especially since Brexit seems to have heightened English identity to the point of making them willing to jettison the rest of the UK.

[Lord Halifax]

"Scottish Labour is considering backing a second independence referendum in a dramatic reversal of policy by the party leader, Richard Leonard.

Party sources have told the Guardian that Leonard will raise that possibility at Labour’s Scottish executive committee on Saturday, where it could also discuss demands for it to split formally from the UK Labour party."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/scottish-labour-could-back-independence-referendum-indyref2

This surely can't have majority support in what remains of Scottish Labour, can it?

The party is probably still split, but I would say there is a loud faction who's identity is Unionist first, Labour second who won't be too enthusiastic.

Sounds like political suicide to me

Like what do they have to gain by becoming an SNP clone? If anything I imagine you have more left wing voters in Scotland than pro independance voters.

If they become pro independance they may as well dissolve and merge with the SNP because I dont see how they'd be relevant in the slightest

They'd probably lose whatever votes they still have to the SNP (left-wingers first) and Tories (unionists first)

The SNP is a broad tent centrist party with a heterogenous voter coalition, if Labour becomes neutral on independence they can hope to get a lot of the left wingers that have defected to the SNP back.

[Lechasseur]

"Scottish Labour is considering backing a second independence referendum in a dramatic reversal of policy by the party leader, Richard Leonard.

Party sources have told the Guardian that Leonard will raise that possibility at Labour’s Scottish executive committee on Saturday, where it could also discuss demands for it to split formally from the UK Labour party."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/scottish-labour-could-back-independence-referendum-indyref2

This surely can't have majority support in what remains of Scottish Labour, can it?

The party is probably still split, but I would say there is a loud faction who's identity is Unionist first, Labour second who won't be too enthusiastic.

Sounds like political suicide to me

Like what do they have to gain by becoming an SNP clone? If anything I imagine you have more left wing voters in Scotland than pro independance voters.

If they become pro independance they may as well dissolve and merge with the SNP because I dont see how they'd be relevant in the slightest

They'd probably lose whatever votes they still have to the SNP (left-wingers first) and Tories (unionists first)

The SNP is a broad tent centrist party with a heterogenous voter coalition, if Labour becomes neutral on independence they can hope to get a lot of the left wingers that have defected to the SNP back.

The SNP strikes me as pretty left-wing already, not sure how much further to the left Labour could go to break SNP dominance.

[Lord Halifax]

"Scottish Labour is considering backing a second independence referendum in a dramatic reversal of policy by the party leader, Richard Leonard.

Party sources have told the Guardian that Leonard will raise that possibility at Labour’s Scottish executive committee on Saturday, where it could also discuss demands for it to split formally from the UK Labour party."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/scottish-labour-could-back-independence-referendum-indyref2

This surely can't have majority support in what remains of Scottish Labour, can it?

The party is probably still split, but I would say there is a loud faction who's identity is Unionist first, Labour second who won't be too enthusiastic.

Sounds like political suicide to me

Like what do they have to gain by becoming an SNP clone? If anything I imagine you have more left wing voters in Scotland than pro independance voters.

If they become pro independance they may as well dissolve and merge with the SNP because I dont see how they'd be relevant in the slightest

They'd probably lose whatever votes they still have to the SNP (left-wingers first) and Tories (unionists first)

The SNP is a broad tent centrist party with a heterogenous voter coalition, if Labour becomes neutral on independence they can hope to get a lot of the left wingers that have defected to the SNP back.

The SNP strikes me as pretty left-wing already, not sure how much further to the left Labour could go to break SNP dominance.

The SNP is rhetorically centre-left, but far less so in practice where it mainly delivers welfare to the middle class and serves business interests. It's a populist catch-all party fairly similar to Fianna Fail in Ireland and there is plenty of space to the left of SNP. They have also hollowed out local government and centralized excessively and that's an area where Labour could attack them.

[afleitch]

"Scottish Labour is considering backing a second independence referendum in a dramatic reversal of policy by the party leader, Richard Leonard.

Party sources have told the Guardian that Leonard will raise that possibility at Labour’s Scottish executive committee on Saturday, where it could also discuss demands for it to split formally from the UK Labour party."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/09/scottish-labour-could-back-independence-referendum-indyref2

This surely can't have majority support in what remains of Scottish Labour, can it?

The party is probably still split, but I would say there is a loud faction who's identity is Unionist first, Labour second who won't be too enthusiastic.

Sounds like political suicide to me

Like what do they have to gain by becoming an SNP clone? If anything I imagine you have more left wing voters in Scotland than pro independance voters.

If they become pro independance they may as well dissolve and merge with the SNP because I dont see how they'd be relevant in the slightest

They'd probably lose whatever votes they still have to the SNP (left-wingers first) and Tories (unionists first)

The SNP is a broad tent centrist party with a heterogenous voter coalition, if Labour becomes neutral on independence they can hope to get a lot of the left wingers that have defected to the SNP back.

The SNP strikes me as pretty left-wing already, not sure how much further to the left Labour could go to break SNP dominance.

The SNP is rhetorically centre-left, but far less so in practice where it mainly delivers welfare to the middle class and serves business interests. It's a populist catch-all party fairly similar to Fianna Fail in Ireland and there is plenty of space to the left of SNP. They have also hollowed out local government and centralized excessively and that's an area where Labour could attack them.

I think you could have argued that point under Salmond but not so much under Sturgeon. And of course Labour before that in Scotland were notoriously technocratic. Indeed, Scottish Labour since 2015 have found themselves arguing for the same petty bourgeois local causes as the Tories including opposing tax rises, parking charges and a local income tax (rather than based on property value.)

[CumbrianLefty]

Harry and Meaghan?

Hello.

Major upheavals coming for the British monarchy in the next few years, almost inevitably. At a time of more general instability, even some not enthusiastic about the institution will view that with some concern.

Which type of upheavals are you thinking of?

Well to put it at its most obvious the Queen turns 94 this year and her consort (who is clearly not in great health these days) 99 - even if she outlives her mother, the talk of formally moving to a regency in the next few years is growing. And her heir is widely reported to have plans to seriously streamline and "modernise" the monarchy (this may partly be in response to the evidence that he is not as popular as his mum) He also has *much* more of a tendency to actually express identifiable views on topics that are actually controversial with the public - at a time of general volatility, how would that go down?

[Silent Hunter]

Even then, there is only a limited number of royals to go round for all the engagements. Anne isn't exactly enough young herself, Andrew is in disgrace, Edward isn't exactly hugely charismatic and a lot of the new generation are still children:

The current tree

You've also got the Queen's cousins down the line of George, Duke of Kent, but again, many of those are getting old.

[Lord Halifax]

https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr/status/1217134724713537542?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw...