UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Blair]

Labour did handle the issue awfully this week- the party seems allergic to the ability to do the bare minimum to keep its existing coalition happy. This was something David Cameron was very good at doing.

People in Grimsby would not have minded Keir doing one question of 'I served as DPP, I put people traffickers behind bars but this policy is immoral.'

But in usual THIGMOO fashion it was avoided until someone fumbled it and a clean up at Aisle 7 was needed- which was basically saying the thing they avoided saying at the first time.

[CumbrianLefty]

They maybe voted Labour when they were young in the 1960s/70s, or perhaps just once in 1997.

(some remarkably right wing people did so then, as was also anecdotally the case in 1945)

My paternal grandfather (died in 2005) voted Labour in 1945 and subsequently said "never again", although he was never a particularly right-wing Tory (had reservations about Thatcher, including her handling of the Falklands). Legend has it that he was a radical leftie in the 1930s, however.

1997 saw Labour get the endorsements of some celebrities with generally unpleasant views - John McCririck (the now deceased horse racing bloke) and Michael Caine come to mind.

One of the most prolific posters in a certain other psephological discussion site is both eyewateringly right wing and voted Labour in 1997 (something they are still quite unabashed about)

[EastAnglianLefty]

It's basically people who would never (and largely have never, except maybe in 1997 or thereabouts) vote Labour and a much smaller group of people who somehow always or nearly always vote Labour anyway, despite that.

Plus a much smaller amount of people in east Kent and environs who are actually directly affected by the issue.

They maybe voted Labour when they were young in the 1960s/70s, or perhaps just once in 1997.

(some remarkably right wing people did so then, as was also anecdotally the case in 1945)

My paternal grandfather (died in 2005) voted Labour in 1945 and subsequently said "never again", although he was never a particularly right-wing Tory (had reservations about Thatcher, including her handling of the Falklands). Legend has it that he was a radical leftie in the 1930s, however.

1997 saw Labour get the endorsements of some celebrities with generally unpleasant views - John McCririck (the now deceased horse racing bloke) and Michael Caine come to mind.

My paternal grandfather voted Labour in 1945 and spent the last fifty odd years of his life as an extremely partisan Tory. Though to be fair, that conversion may have been less a landslide effect and more that a) my grandmother was incredibly right-wing and b) he had to deal with the DMU when he was involved in the building of Newton Aycliffe. He never forgave them for shooting down his plan for district heating.

[Estrella]

It's basically people who would never (and largely have never, except maybe in 1997 or thereabouts) vote Labour and a much smaller group of people who somehow always or nearly always vote Labour anyway, despite that.

Plus a much smaller amount of people in east Kent and environs who are actually directly affected by the issue.

They maybe voted Labour when they were young in the 1960s/70s, or perhaps just once in 1997.

(some remarkably right wing people did so then, as was also anecdotally the case in 1945)

My paternal grandfather (died in 2005) voted Labour in 1945 and subsequently said "never again", although he was never a particularly right-wing Tory (had reservations about Thatcher, including her handling of the Falklands). Legend has it that he was a radical leftie in the 1930s, however.

1997 saw Labour get the endorsements of some celebrities with generally unpleasant views - John McCririck (the now deceased horse racing bloke) and Michael Caine come to mind.

My paternal grandfather voted Labour in 1945 and spent the last fifty odd years of his life as an extremely partisan Tory. Though to be fair, that conversion may have been less a landslide effect and more that a) my grandmother was incredibly right-wing and b) he had to deal with the DMU when he was involved in the building of Newton Aycliffe. He never forgave them for shooting down his plan for district heating.

Do you know more about her politics? I wonder what "incredibly right-wing" meant in 50s/60s/70s for people who weren't Enoch Powell.

[Blair]

In the case of my grandmother it was a belief the Mau Mau should be shot, Ian Smith should have had a peerage and the nation ‘couldn’t afford an NHS’.

She also to this day believes the 1945 election was stolen.

But in a bizarre and actually quite widespread view she loved Ernie Bevin (she always said ‘Bevin- not Bevan’ in case someone thought she liked the other one).

She said she would have voted Labour if he was leader because he ‘was a real salt of the earth’ man.

I’m probably quite common in having a paternal line of ardent imperialists (with a military background) and a maternal line of communists and Marxists- one of whom allegedly fought in Spain.

[EastAnglianLefty]

It's basically people who would never (and largely have never, except maybe in 1997 or thereabouts) vote Labour and a much smaller group of people who somehow always or nearly always vote Labour anyway, despite that.

Plus a much smaller amount of people in east Kent and environs who are actually directly affected by the issue.

They maybe voted Labour when they were young in the 1960s/70s, or perhaps just once in 1997.

(some remarkably right wing people did so then, as was also anecdotally the case in 1945)

My paternal grandfather (died in 2005) voted Labour in 1945 and subsequently said "never again", although he was never a particularly right-wing Tory (had reservations about Thatcher, including her handling of the Falklands). Legend has it that he was a radical leftie in the 1930s, however.

1997 saw Labour get the endorsements of some celebrities with generally unpleasant views - John McCririck (the now deceased horse racing bloke) and Michael Caine come to mind.

My paternal grandfather voted Labour in 1945 and spent the last fifty odd years of his life as an extremely partisan Tory. Though to be fair, that conversion may have been less a landslide effect and more that a) my grandmother was incredibly right-wing and b) he had to deal with the DMU when he was involved in the building of Newton Aycliffe. He never forgave them for shooting down his plan for district heating.

Do you know more about her politics? I wonder what "incredibly right-wing" meant in 50s/60s/70s for people who weren't Enoch Powell.

I'm not sure. I would have placed her on the right wing of the Conservative Party, but the manifestation I saw of that was primarily visceral anti-Labour feeling rather than any particular issue positions.

[Conservatopia]

I was surprised today that nothing had been bungled or gone horribly wrong for a few hours.

The PM spent this morning under general anesthetic.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

If the SNP does go ahead with it's "advisory referendum", then would the unionist response be to boycott it ?

[YL]

So, why did the Times drop That Story so apparently easily?  There's no injunction, the journalist who wrote it stands by it, and the gist of it was already in the public domain thanks to Lord Ashcroft.

[Blair]

So, why did the Times drop That Story so apparently easily?  There's no injunction, the journalist who wrote it stands by it, and the gist of it was already in the public domain thanks to Lord Ashcroft.

If you rule out an injunction, or a D-Notice (lol!) the only conclusion is that phone calls were made to someone higher up the food chain than the reporter who wrote the piece- No10 admitted as much in the lobby briefing yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/20/no-10-confirms-asked-the-times-drop-carrie-johnson-story?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Blair]

Tories really seem to be running with ‘Labour strikes’- one of the larger dunces on the backbenches tweeted ‘this is what Labour Britain looks like’ which is er well interesting.

I’m curious how people think the attacks will go over- it has the smell of something Westminster types will write up as a genius attack when in reality most people will probably just be mildly annoyed.

It is fascinating how much anti trade union culture is engrained into British society- especially among low paid staff.

[YL]

So, why did the Times drop That Story so apparently easily?  There's no injunction, the journalist who wrote it stands by it, and the gist of it was already in the public domain thanks to Lord Ashcroft.

If you rule out an injunction, or a D-Notice (lol!) the only conclusion is that phone calls were made to someone higher up the food chain than the reporter who wrote the piece- No10 admitted as much in the lobby briefing yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/20/no-10-confirms-asked-the-times-drop-carrie-johnson-story?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Yes.  It just seems remarkably timid of them to pull it in those circumstances.

[CumbrianLefty]

If the SNP does go ahead with it's "advisory referendum", then would the unionist response be to boycott it ?

Yes, of course.

I'm sure it will go every bit as well as the Catalan one did.

[Zinneke]

If the SNP does go ahead with it's "advisory referendum", then would the unionist response be to boycott it ?

Yes, of course.

I'm sure it will go every bit as well as the Catalan one did.

The Spanish government response was to beat up people putting pieces of paper in boxes. I imagine the police in Scotland are more civilized.

Can imagine a scenario where Johnson makes the most of it though by stripping Scotland of devolution.

[CumbrianLefty]

Well you could perhaps see him being stupid and vain enough to fantasise about that actually being a possibility, but even many Tories wouldn't buy it (and pretty much none of the Scottish party would)

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

My great grandfather was a Tory who basically came from the pages of Remains of the Day, given he was a footman of some sort who strongly identified with the house he represented. His wife was a radical leftist who forced him to resign to take up a respectable working mans job in a factory, to which he did, but he would always show up to work in the spats etc that he did in service. For her part, although she was involved in radicalism, his wife apparently never voted either because she didn't care about electoralism or even because she was ambivalent to women's suffrage.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I’m probably quite common in having a paternal line of ardent imperialists (with a military background) and a maternal line of communists and Marxists- one of whom allegedly fought in Spain.

This might be one of the most British things posted on here.

[afleitch]

If the SNP does go ahead with it's "advisory referendum", then would the unionist response be to boycott it ?

Yes, of course.

I'm sure it will go every bit as well as the Catalan one did.

The Spanish government response was to beat up people putting pieces of paper in boxes. I imagine the police in Scotland are more civilized.

Can imagine a scenario where Johnson makes the most of it though by stripping Scotland of devolution.

I'd love to see him try. Absolutely love it.

[brucejoel99]

If the SNP does go ahead with it's "advisory referendum", then would the unionist response be to boycott it ?

Yes, of course.

I'm sure it will go every bit as well as the Catalan one did.

The Spanish government response was to beat up people putting pieces of paper in boxes. I imagine the police in Scotland are more civilized.

Can imagine a scenario where Johnson makes the most of it though by stripping Scotland of devolution.

I'd love to see him try. Absolutely love it.

"As the Minister for the Union, among my portfolios, I've done all I can to win Scotland over. Now, the only option I have left to fulfill my mandate to maintain the Union is to use my Brit powers to regenerate Dr. Who-style into Mariano Rajoy."

[Torrain]

Been a pretty standard PMQs, with a couple of lively moments:

Johnson has deflected allegations he pushed for Carrie Johnson to get a job with charities run by the Royal Family, and the Foreign Office. He seems a bit low-energy on the whole. Using new material on the strikes, but just seems tired. Guess he’s still in recovery from surgery.

Starmer on stronger form this afternoon. Drew a nice contrast between the Tory Wakefield candidate and Johnson, both of whom have faced confidence votes, and now look electorally shaky. Some stronger lines on Johnson’s inaction on the strikes, and using some embarrassing civil service quotes about workers pay against the government.

Grant Shapps is on the frontbench - and looks shattered. Man looks like he hasn’t slept in a week.

Ian Blackford audibly heckled as he stood up for the first time. Blackford’s reception in the chamber is rarely warm, but seems particularly poor today. Hopefully, he’s facing some pushback for his defence of Patrick Grady.

[CumbrianLefty]

Criticism of Starmer over the strikes may have been a tad overdone, given that polling now appears to show he is close to median public opinion on the issue.

[afleitch]

Criticism of Starmer over the strikes may have been a tad overdone, given that polling now appears to show he is close to median public opinion on the issue.

Yeah, the working age public seem pretty supportive.

[afleitch]

Also polio has been detected in London sewerage. So there's one for the bingo card.

[Alcibiades]

My great grandfather was a Tory who basically came from the pages of Remains of the Day, given he was a footman of some sort who strongly identified with the house he represented. His wife was a radical leftist who forced him to resign to take up a respectable working mans job in a factory, to which he did, but he would always show up to work in the spats etc that he did in service. For her part, although she was involved in radicalism, his wife apparently never voted either because she didn't care about electoralism or even because she was ambivalent to women's suffrage.

There was supposedly a tale in my family (which originally hails from a very humble Staffordshire background) that a female ancestor of mine, while working as a lowly domestic servant to some great family, had been impregnated by the lord (naturally he would never have acknowledged such a baby, lending the story its unfalsifiable allure) and that consequently we were of aristocratic blood. The rumour is highly unlikely to be true, but despite its scurrilous nature was flaunted with great pride by a number of individuals in the family! Certainly goes to show the complex nature of such class identities.

I actually know disappointingly little about the English side of my family’s politics, despite them coming from one of the 20th century’s most politically infamous towns (no points for guessing which based on the county mentioned above!).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I actually know disappointingly little about the English side of my family’s politics, despite them coming from one of the 20th century’s most politically infamous towns (no points for guessing which based on the county mentioned above!).

Very much a place to stress the links to one of the greatest cricketers to have ever lived - S.F. Barnes - rather than its unique and special place in political history.