UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero
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  UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero
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Author Topic: UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero  (Read 283621 times)
Blair
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« Reply #425 on: May 25, 2020, 05:27:24 AM »

More Tory MPs are coming out against Cummings; one MP apparantly had 250 emails about it.

Never underestimate this & the fact that MPs know generally from records who the people are; a lot of MPs are shaped by their mailbag.

The front page of the Daily Mail for tomorrow is deeply bad for the government. When you've lost *them* as a Tory, you're toast.

I read a Blair era rule was that if the Guardian & Mail agreed on an issue you'd lost.

On that subject Boris has lost the clergy, with several bishops coming out against it... I can't remember the last time we had this happen over a political row.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #426 on: May 25, 2020, 06:47:38 AM »

Although there has been one senior BBC reporter who has managed to debase themselves even further...

Can't possibly imagine who you are referring to here, no sirree Roll Eyes Tongue
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Blair
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« Reply #427 on: May 25, 2020, 07:22:12 AM »

Although there has been one senior BBC reporter who has managed to debase themselves even further...

Can't possibly imagine who you are referring to here, no sirree Roll Eyes Tongue

It's quite funny because before the election I always generally cut her a lot of slack & thought she just faced the same abuse that Nick Robinson & co faced (there's problems with how the BBC do news but Humphreys aside none of the presenters were much of an issue for me)

However how she didn't get sacked for fasely reporting that Labour activists attacked the health secretary was remarkable. It wasn't even the shoddy sourcing that angered me but the fact that she changed an entire newscycle through tweeting.

And once again she did the same thing this time; and in an even more sh**tty move did so by trying to cut the legs off a colleagues story.... I never really understand journo beef but I imagine she's not exactly popular.

EDIT: I posted vaguely in the hope I wouldn't rant. I have failed.
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Blair
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« Reply #428 on: May 25, 2020, 07:36:25 AM »

To give an update Cummings is apparantly doing a statement & taking questions- I assume like most of his past comments it will be him in tracksuits calling the press idiots for getting Brexit 'wrong' & saying normal people don't care.

It's a sign of either how broken the political radar of No.10 is, or the degree they're willing to go to defend cummings that 3 days of solid news coverage, a Prime Ministerial Statement & three ministerial interviews aren't enough to close this... I can't see how more questions is going to help.

I've seen some people hint that there might be more in terms of family specifics around health issues; but the problem is that during a pandemic where people are dying alone it won't really change much for people.

It must be embarrasing to be a cabinet member in this Government knowing you'd have been sacked on Saturday but if you're an advisor (paid through the public purse) you keep your job....
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #429 on: May 25, 2020, 08:53:11 AM »

Never underestimate this & the fact that MPs know generally from records who the people are; a lot of MPs are shaped by their mailbag.

I did spot that one of the first to change his tune - and to even apologise for 'getting it wrong' on Saturday - was Halfron, who is known to be particularly attentive to such things.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #430 on: May 25, 2020, 10:16:29 AM »

Although there has been one senior BBC reporter who has managed to debase themselves even further...

Can't possibly imagine who you are referring to here, no sirree Roll Eyes Tongue

It's quite funny because before the election I always generally cut her a lot of slack & thought she just faced the same abuse that Nick Robinson & co faced (there's problems with how the BBC do news but Humphreys aside none of the presenters were much of an issue for me)

However how she didn't get sacked for fasely reporting that Labour activists attacked the health secretary was remarkable. It wasn't even the shoddy sourcing that angered me but the fact that she changed an entire newscycle through tweeting.

And once again she did the same thing this time; and in an even more sh**tty move did so by trying to cut the legs off a colleagues story.... I never really understand journo beef but I imagine she's not exactly popular.

EDIT: I posted vaguely in the hope I wouldn't rant. I have failed.

That still genuinely makes me rage, one of *the* most disgraceful episodes in recent years. Though lets not forget that her partner in crime Bobby Pesto was at least as culpable there.

(the Gleiwitz incident of our time was actually "on" one of Hancock's aides, not that that alters things)
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Granite City
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« Reply #431 on: May 25, 2020, 11:47:51 AM »

I expected Cummings to be more abrasive today, not sure whether he is genuinely concerned at how this is going down or is acting up for sympathy. I would guess the former given the timeline of Downing Street's response.

The Barnard Castle excursion is indefensible, not that I expect that to stop people.

Firstly, the DVLA pretty clearly does not allow you to drive to test your ability to drive

https://www.gov.uk/driving-eyesight-rules

but more importantly, if we have to excuse his behaviour because it was all within good judgement, I'm concerned about the judgment of keeping your wife and child in the car for a test of your ability to drive.

I imagine the defence will be that he had them in the car so as to not waste time travelling back to his parents' house and then back to London which might be legitimate if going to the Castle was directly on the way but it appears to have been something of a detour.

The defence of driving to Durham was slightly more convincing but if he can justify a symptomatic family driving 260 miles why couldn't the asymptomatic people in Durham who had volunteered themselves for childcare drive down to London? I believe he mentioned a 20 year old who you could presume can drive - maybe not but he should at least answer the question.

Pretty horrific excuses all round and a shame that the journalists were not more forensic.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #432 on: May 25, 2020, 11:58:48 AM »

The headlines should be "Cummings confesses to dangerous driving with child in the car."
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #433 on: May 25, 2020, 12:09:52 PM »

Maybe this will look silly in 24 hours, but I don't think he has "closed this down".
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jaymichaud
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« Reply #434 on: May 25, 2020, 12:24:57 PM »

This entire ordeal is a f**king PR disaster for the Tories.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #435 on: May 25, 2020, 12:28:39 PM »

Maybe this will look silly in 24 hours, but I don't think he has "closed this down".

It looks to have been enough to get the more monotonously partisan Tories to fall in line, but it's not going to convince anybody else. The question then becomes whether they're a majority of the parliamentary party and what people are and aren't willing to do when he keeps refusing to resign.
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Blair
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« Reply #436 on: May 25, 2020, 12:45:34 PM »

Maybe this will look silly in 24 hours, but I don't think he has "closed this down".

It looks to have been enough to get the more monotonously partisan Tories to fall in line, but it's not going to convince anybody else. The question then becomes whether they're a majority of the parliamentary party and what people are and aren't willing to do when he keeps refusing to resign.

Yeah I love seeing cabinet members who defended him on saturday (before they knew about the second trip!) now say 'oh great it's all been cleared up'. If I was really bored I'd try & get a sheet of those who have kept quiet, especially in the new intake & those in junior jobs. The responses to constituents emails will shine a light on this too. 

The tipping point this weekend was the reaction of Tory MPs; my focus will now be on the public & there's a danger this becomes to the Government what 'Brown sold the gold' was.

But yeah this just seems to have have solidified opinion; there wasn't the game changer attempt of an excuse I expected or the apology/remorse.

The part about the eyetest is rubbish & will fall apart- and has caught the public imagination.

It also seems that the Mail are really going for the Government over this; already Government MPs are doing the whole 'he's answered questions...let's just focus on the great work we're doing etc'' and I expect we won't see many more Tory MPs calling for him to be sacked now that it's obviouis he won't be.

But this has done the Government a great deal of damage & most importantly has seriously weakened the Governments credibility to enforce public health decisonns.

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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #437 on: May 25, 2020, 03:08:28 PM »

Yes, I think its a stalemate situation for now unless something new and (even more) damning emerges.

Though the fact Cummings didn't go today (as some confidently predicted he would last night) shows perhaps that Starmer was right not to explicitly demand that - saying he would have sacked DC in the same position as Johnson was perhaps the smarter move.
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Blair
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« Reply #438 on: May 25, 2020, 03:52:56 PM »

One of the most enjoyable things in politics is knowing that the opposition are having to esentially lie through their teeth; god knows the Labour Party did a good amount over the last four years but the only ray of sunshine to come from this is the amount of Tory MPs & Ministers who know cummings is awful, who know he did wrong, who know he should be sacked yet they still have to lie to themselves, lie to their consittuents and to the public.
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Blair
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« Reply #439 on: May 26, 2020, 07:51:38 AM »

Despite my prediction it hasn't stopped & has actually got worse with a junior Scottish Minister Douglas Ross resigning (who is iirc is quite a big brexiteer- but there's also Scottish Tory Politics going on in this decision)

Added the former chief whip Mark Harper has just called for him to go citing the impact that this is having on the party & it's message- MPs will listen to this.

I wouldn't be surprised if we reach 30 by the end of the day & with the polling I'm actually edging towards thinking he resigns on Wednesday/Thursday as a 'I did nothing wrong but....'.
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Blair
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« Reply #440 on: May 26, 2020, 07:54:22 AM »

Despite my prediction it hasn't stopped & has actually got worse with a junior Scottish Minister Douglas Ross resigning (who is iirc is quite a big brexiteer- but there's also Scottish Tory Politics going on in this decision)

Added the former chief whip Mark Harper has just called for him to go citing the impact that this is having on the party & it's message- MPs will listen to this.

I wouldn't be surprised if we reach 30 by the end of the day & with the polling I'm actually edging towards thinking he resigns on Wednesday/Thursday as a 'I did nothing wrong but....'.

My best ideas are stolen but Stephen Bush pointed out that the rebels/disgruntled backbenchers so far in the Bojo reign have been white male MPs from the 2010/2015 intake who are seeing the chance of serving in Government slipping away & thus are happy to put the boot in- I say this because Stephen Hammond (majority of 500 odd) has just called for him to quit.

If more from the 2019 intake start coming forward I would worry for the whips...
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #441 on: May 26, 2020, 09:50:17 AM »

MPs will know, even in present socially distanced conditions, how this is playing with the voters - and the answer to that is "extremely badly" with most of them (as snap polling is bearing out)
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DaWN
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« Reply #442 on: May 26, 2020, 12:37:36 PM »



This is insanity.
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urutzizu
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« Reply #443 on: May 26, 2020, 01:14:49 PM »

We have seen the same in Continental Europe in Countries where the Public has seen the Government handling as negative, often even more negative than in the UK, Spain for instance.

A Surge in Government disapproval of the Virus response does not have to mean massive changes in its general election polling fortunes, especially if the opposition where it is in Government (i.e. Wales), does not handle the Crisis significantly better. On certain issues, testing chiefly, they have actually handled it worse.

Additionally that Poll also had Boris Approval at 51-34, which is quite a bit better then what we have seen elsewhere with Polls that were conducted entirely after the recent revelations.  
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #444 on: May 26, 2020, 01:26:36 PM »

The polling was largely conducted before Sunday evening, which is when this business turned into A Scandal.
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Blair
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« Reply #445 on: May 26, 2020, 01:40:14 PM »

In a week of low bars Hancock has committed to look into the issue of everyone who was fined for travelling with children.

True banana republic sh**t to retrospectively change the law to allow a Government aide to get away without resigning.

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Cassius
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« Reply #446 on: May 26, 2020, 03:16:39 PM »

Mark Drakeford and Llafur Cymru may as well be the captain and crew of the Special Boat Squadron as far as the UK (indeed much of the Welsh) electorate are concerned. The Welsh Parliament is essentially a minuscule dot on the face of UK political reporting, the focus of which will very much be on Johnson and the government getting their nuts roasted by Keir Starmer and feet shot by... themselves. Regardless of the performance of the devolved governments in this crisis (and they will, as always, seek to nationalise their failures whilst localising their, few, successes), the focus in the media will be very much on the UK government’s handling of the pandemic.
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afleitch
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« Reply #447 on: May 26, 2020, 03:56:36 PM »

On that note;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52795997?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland_politics&link_location=live-reporting-story

A total of 82% of respondents said Ms Sturgeon had handled the outbreak "fairly" or "very" well, to 8% "fairly" or "very" badly, giving her a net approval rating of +74. The Scottish government's score was +67.

Meanwhile 30% of those who took part said the prime minister was handling the outbreak "fairly" or "very" well, compared to 55% "fairly" or "very" badly - a net approval rating of -25. The UK government's overall rating was -17.
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Cassius
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« Reply #448 on: May 26, 2020, 04:07:48 PM »

On that note;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52795997?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland_politics&link_location=live-reporting-story

A total of 82% of respondents said Ms Sturgeon had handled the outbreak "fairly" or "very" well, to 8% "fairly" or "very" badly, giving her a net approval rating of +74. The Scottish government's score was +67.

Meanwhile 30% of those who took part said the prime minister was handling the outbreak "fairly" or "very" well, compared to 55% "fairly" or "very" badly - a net approval rating of -25. The UK government's overall rating was -17.

I mean, I was referring specifically to the Welsh government (aside from the little ‘nationalise their failures and localise their successes’ dig, which funnily enough was also mentioned by Curtice in that article), in response to Urutzizu’s comment about places where the opposition is in government... and if you look at the (rare) polling of Welsh politics, there’s little to indicate the Welsh electorate itself is switched on to devolved politics, never mind the English electorate.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #449 on: May 26, 2020, 04:21:57 PM »

In a week of low bars Hancock has committed to look into the issue of everyone who was fined for travelling with children.

True banana republic sh**t to retrospectively change the law to allow a Government aide to get away without resigning.

Although he was then contradicted by a government source within half an hour. It's a mark of how chaotic things are that that isn't a bigger story.

Meanwhile, the Times have a YouGov poll saying the Tory lead has been cut to 6 points (from 15 points last time.) The headline figures haven't been announced, but if that's replicated then there is going to be some serious nervousness in the Cabinet.
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