UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[MillennialModerate]

Okay well how about a more far reaching arrangement where the parties never run in the same seat unless it’s a Lab/Lib seat.

[Blair]

Okay well how about a more far reaching arrangement where the parties never run in the same seat unless it’s a Lab/Lib seat.

The parties already have a semi official policy of not running serious campaigns if they're far behind in third place- see the recent by-elections where the parties pulled out resources to give others a fair shot.

We don't need these sort of changes to enable tactical voting- we just need Labour & the Liberal Democrats to run competent campaigns.

[Blair]

It should be noted that the Liberal Democrats are already a merger between a liberal party & a social democratic one; and this was a complex & painful process for the party which was still causing issues 20 years later.

[Estrella]

Which followed this little exchange. Can someone just lock Fabricant in a cupboard until Boris is forced out? The man's a national embarrassment at this point.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1485242385768529921

https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1485000638232674304

Compare and contrast:

[Estrella]

It should be noted that the Liberal Democrats are already a merger between a liberal party & a social democratic one; and this was a complex & painful process for the party which was still causing issues 20 years later.

I'm not very familiar with the history of Lib Dems, but didn't most SDP people slowly return to Labour during Kinnock's leadership?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Okay well how about a more far reaching arrangement where the parties never run in the same seat unless it’s a Lab/Lib seat.

Tactical voting is an integral part of the political culture here. The sort of residual vote for one of the 'progressive' parties after a squeeze in a Tory marginal would be more likely to stay at home or vote Conservative if their party wasn't on the ballot.

[beesley]

On a more moral note I take issue with the whole premise. If somebody wants to vote for the policies and values of the Labour Party then where they live shouldn't be a barrier (which I realise contradicts my dismissal of problems with voting in the Speaker's seat).

[YL]

It should be noted that the Liberal Democrats are already a merger between a liberal party & a social democratic one; and this was a complex & painful process for the party which was still causing issues 20 years later.

I'm not very familiar with the history of Lib Dems, but didn't most SDP people slowly return to Labour during Kinnock's leadership?

Well, the SDP were a bit of a mixed bag, but in general those who were less of a natural fit with the Liberals either drifted back to Labour in the Nineties or otherwise didn't remain in the Lib Dems, and of course some of their most high profile figures never joined the Lib Dems in the first place.  So I think that the Lib Dems are essentially the continuation of the old Liberal Party and that ideological tensions in the party aren't to do with the merger.

[MaxQue]

Okay well how about a more far reaching arrangement where the parties never run in the same seat unless it’s a Lab/Lib seat.

That is likely to benefit Conservatives, actually, given the number of LDs voters who would never vote Labour and the number of Labour voters who would never vote for a Liberal Democrat MP.

[MillennialModerate]

Okay well how about a more far reaching arrangement where the parties never run in the same seat unless it’s a Lab/Lib seat.

That is likely to benefit Conservatives, actually, given the number of LDs voters who would never vote Labour and the number of Labour voters who would never vote for a Liberal Democrat MP.

I can see a LibDem voter not voting Labour. But why would a Labour voter rather go Tory than LibDem?

Another question - did that dynamic change under New Labour? Didn’t New Labour in the Blair years kind of invade the center ground territory that LibDems had? Weren’t LibDems to the left of Labour at some points

[Sestak]

I think I preferred bronz in this thread

[MaxQue]

Okay well how about a more far reaching arrangement where the parties never run in the same seat unless it’s a Lab/Lib seat.

That is likely to benefit Conservatives, actually, given the number of LDs voters who would never vote Labour and the number of Labour voters who would never vote for a Liberal Democrat MP.

I can see a LibDem voter not voting Labour. But why would a Labour voter rather go Tory than LibDem?

Just think of, in US terms, of a Reagan Democrat or someone compelled by Trump-like populism. Pro-union, quite socially conservative.

[Torrain]

I can see a LibDem voter not voting Labour. But why would a Labour voter rather go Tory than LibDem?

Another question - did that dynamic change under New Labour? Didn’t New Labour in the Blair years kind of invade the center ground territory that LibDems had? Weren’t LibDems to the left of Labour at some points

The Lib Dems were staunchly against the Iraq War, in contrast to the main two parties, whose leaders were broadly supportive, and whose members were split. Their opposition to both Labour’s foreign policy, and the Conservatives general disorder (they were burning through leaders every few years and had scarce few MPs) helped them to carve out a distinct position, and serve as a protest vote in by-elections for typically safe seats for both parties.

If you want a rundown of the party’s history, especially in the past 20 years, they’ve published a short essay on the subject - which will hopefully answer most of your Lib Dem questions. It’s a fairly frank view of the party, shortcomings included, but obviously a tad biased: https://www.libdems.org.uk/history

[Torrain]

https://mobile.twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1485612894431625222?ref_src=tw...

[CumbrianLefty]

It should be noted that the Liberal Democrats are already a merger between a liberal party & a social democratic one; and this was a complex & painful process for the party which was still causing issues 20 years later.

I'm not very familiar with the history of Lib Dems, but didn't most SDP people slowly return to Labour during Kinnock's leadership?

A few did go back then, though more returned in the 1990s.

But several remain influential in the "merged" party to this day.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A lot also started to support and vote for the party again, but never rejoined it. For the most part those who remained in the LibDems after, say, 1992 or so were those whose commitment to social democracy had become pretty loose and who fitted better into a liberal party anyway and those who would have found it very difficult to go back because of all the bridges burned but felt a need to remain in a political party almost out of habit. A small number also became Conservatives - this was mostly a thing with young people who had joined the SDP without previous political activism or Labour membership,* but also included John Horam, the MP for Gateshead West 1970-83 and then (as a Conservative) for Orpington 1992-2010. He's now in the House of Lords and has become increasingly weird in his old age.

_{*Including several future Cameron-era cabinet ministers.}

[TheTide]

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1485649813379362816?s=20

[Silent Hunter]

Mark Spencer confirmed as the worst Chief Whip in history. No, not because of the accusation, which is horrible but would not in itself reflect on competence in that job. No. For the brain-dead tweets about it - literally the opposite of what someone in that post is supposed to do.

Well, he didn't give someone lethally strong cocaine or throw a journalist off a roof. That we know of.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Out of Downing Street, always something new...

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1485677107556540424

If this is f[inks]ing true...

Edit: beaten to the punch by Filuwaúrdjan - same ITV story.

[KaiserDave]

[TheTide]

His body language over recent days has suggested that he knows it's over. As he should as someone who's been playing the politics game at a high level for a long time.

[Sestak]

PLEASE can there be a photograph of this one

[TheTide]

Even Richard Burgon can get in a zinger over this.

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1485682681148895232?s=20

[Torrain]

Presented with as little comment as possible:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1241348429546217475