UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Conservatopia]

Bronz, if you must post here at least talk sense.  No stupid nonsense about "commoners" and "nobles" and the political leaning of athletes or your dumb race obsession.

[Suburbia]

Bronz, if you must post here at least talk sense.  No stupid nonsense about "commoners" and "nobles" and the political leaning of athletes or your dumb race obsession.

Its a political discussion. Gary Neville was on GMB discussing politics so I decided to discuss it here....

[Angel of Death]

What is the British version of the Internal Revenue Service, the American taxman and is it reviled by the British commoners and taxpayers like how Americans hate paying taxes?

The U.S. Revolutionary War was created also because of King George's taxes.....

HM Revenue and Customs. Can't say it's reviled.

Not reviled… but not respected either.

If you want reviled, try the Department for Work and Pensions.

[gerritcole]

the state of uk politics mirrors its decline as a relevant power

[CumbrianLefty]

It’s v interesting how much the coverage differs between Tory and Labour conference.

Indeed, but that is partly down to the differing nature of the two events.

Johnson's speech today though - strikingly empty?

Certainly no big "rabbit out of the hat", despite that being widely trailed.

The difference being Boris is happy to bang on about 'redistributing wealth' despite it being a con, but such words would never leave Starmer's month even if he intends to do it.

Labour has a wonk when it needs bluster.

There is a lot to criticise Starmer for, but frankly trying to out-Johnson Johnson is a futile exercise.

If people truly tire of him, they will want something different.

As has almost always been the case in the past.

[beesley]

the state of uk politics mirrors its decline as a relevant power

I don't dispute that the UK has declined as a global power, but explain the link? If you think Brexit was a reason for that you would have to argue the state of UK politics has changed a lot more than psephologically.

[beesley]

Sad news about the death of James Brokenshire. A minister who was very well-regarded despite having tricky files, both as a dedicated minister and a family man. It must've been very hard to juggle lung cancer treatment with his duty but he evidently strived to do so and to do so well.

[CumbrianLefty]

the state of uk politics mirrors its decline as a relevant power

I don't dispute that the UK has declined as a global power, but explain the link? If you think Brexit was a reason for that you would have to argue the state of UK politics has changed a lot more than psephologically.

Oh, pro-imperial nostalgia is a definite factor driving pro-Brexit sentiment.

(along with many other things, obviously)

[beesley]

the state of uk politics mirrors its decline as a relevant power

I don't dispute that the UK has declined as a global power, but explain the link? If you think Brexit was a reason for that you would have to argue the state of UK politics has changed a lot more than psephologically.

Oh, pro-imperial nostalgia is a definite factor driving pro-Brexit sentiment.

(along with many other things, obviously)

I don't think that's what he was referring to, but fair enough.

[Geoffrey Howe]

In today's Times:

Sir, The prime minister tells us that it is necessary to restrict immigration to raise wages, skills and productivity (reports and leading article, Oct 7). In that case, our competitors such as Germany that have higher levels of wages, skills and productivity should have lower levels of immigration. The opposite is the case: the level of immigration in Germany is at least twice as high as our own. Somebody has to take on the low-paid, low-skilled jobs. Immigration releases the local workforce to raise its skills and productivity. Like the prime minister I am a Classicist, not an economist, but even Aristotle could have told him that his syllogism was flawed.
Professor Andrew Wallace-Hadrill
Cambridge

[Cassius]

Well he is a Classicist, so he’s familiar with an economy based upon importing large numbers of foreigners to work in the fields and the salt mines (and brothels, don’t forget them).

[rc18]

In today's Times:

Sir, The prime minister tells us that it is necessary to restrict immigration to raise wages, skills and productivity (reports and leading article, Oct 7). In that case, our competitors such as Germany that have higher levels of wages, skills and productivity should have lower levels of immigration. The opposite is the case: the level of immigration in Germany is at least twice as high as our own. Somebody has to take on the low-paid, low-skilled jobs. Immigration releases the local workforce to raise its skills and productivity. Like the prime minister I am a Classicist, not an economist, but even Aristotle could have told him that his syllogism was flawed.
Professor Andrew Wallace-Hadrill
Cambridge

Germany has a very different economy to ours, predominantly based on high-tech goods export rather than service-based. Provided you have a steady supply of customers, such an industrial focus artificially boosts wages, skills and productivity anyway.

Historically the immigration to Germany was in the form of skilled labour; their jobs were relatively high value, a net boost to the economy. Unskilled Labour is a boost to the employers bottom-line, but it does not add large amounts of value to the economy. It still adds to the costs however; services/healthcare etc etc.

The glut of unskilled migration from the eastern members meant that our industries held off on measures that would increase productivity, particularly mechanisation, in areas like agriculture and logistics. E.g. I know of one local logistics company that decided to buy-in a sorting machine after the EU referendum vote.

Maybe Professor Andrew Wallace-Hadrill should stick to classics?

[GenerationTerrorist]

Sad news about the death of James Brokenshire. A minister who was very well-regarded despite having tricky files, both as a dedicated minister and a family man. It must've been very hard to juggle lung cancer treatment with his duty but he evidently strived to do so and to do so well.

I was very sad to hear of his passing. Always came across as a very decent human being.

[Geoffrey Howe]

The above was posted more for its amusing end than its economic analysis, although how it might have backfired is rather entertaining given its faux humility.

[Blair]

It’s v interesting how much the coverage differs between Tory and Labour conference.

Indeed, but that is partly down to the differing nature of the two events.

Johnson's speech today though - strikingly empty?

Certainly no big "rabbit out of the hat", despite that being widely trailed.

Part of it is is being in opposition but the other part is just Labours deeply unhealthy internal culture- I read at least 3 stories about how annoyed Andy Burnham was for not having a speech at conference (it's a yearly event- one year it was anger at JC re Sadiq not speaking)

Yet how many stories were there about Ben Houchen or Andy Street not having a big speech? None!

People use to criticise New Labour for side-lining conference but honestly I don't know how anyone can look at the difference in coverage and wonder which one is better!

I mean Labour have it so that there is an NEC meeting every day for 4 days in a row! Why do we hate ourselves so much. It's very church of England vibes at time.

[Blair]

An interesting piece on a party's internal culture that isn't THIGMOO or the Tories; ignoring the part about the German Greens it's quite good at showing why the party is quite hard to lead.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2021/10/why-the-greens-are-missing-their-moment

[afleitch]

An interesting piece on a party's internal culture that isn't THIGMOO or the Tories; ignoring the part about the German Greens it's quite good at showing why the party is quite hard to lead.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2021/10/why-the-greens-are-missing-their-moment

It's amazing how many protracted articles the New Statesman will publish that are excuses to be anti-trans puff pieces

https://mobile.twitter.com/hughster/status/1443541782218805255

It also references/dismisses the Scottish Greens who have had enormous success because of 'culture war' issues.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I know this is a stale take, but my God what is in the water in the UK that their center-left is so vitriolic in its transphobia? Or is it that the rest of the Anglophone world is so influenced by the US on that issue?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

It also references/dismisses the Scottish Greens who have had enormous success because of 'culture war' issues.

I don't know whether it's culture war issues specifically. They merely have a captive market for pro-indy voters who think the SNP government isn't radical enough on a whole host of issues.

But yeah, while I agree it's silly to give so much space in your article to trans issues on the premise that that is why the England and Wales Greens haven't broken through, the gist of it that trying to be to the left of Labour on everything will mean vanishingly small electoral opportunities, especially under FPTP, is sound. At least until Labour have been in government for a while.

[afleitch]

I know this is a stale take, but my God what is in the water in the UK that their center-left is so vitriolic in its transphobia? Or is it that the rest of the Anglophone world is so influenced by the US on that issue?

It's a very sinister middle class obsession by the same journalists, usually white, usually middle class, predominantly middle aged, almost exclusively cis who all attend the same functions and know each other and don't want to be disinvited to the big social gatherings (and I'm really not being flippant about this.) For those who are otherwise on the 'liberal-left' there is a combination of their own views being frozen in place some 10 or 20 years ago, coupled with the need to find something (which has become 'someone') to scapegoat for why Labour are a shambles and why they can't win like they did 10 or 20 years ago.

It's made the Guardian, the Observer and the Staggers pretty much unreadable now.

There are almost daily articles on this issue in nearly every newspaper. Sometimes multiple pieces a day.

[CumbrianLefty]

A prime example was Catherine Bennett using last week's Observer to somehow conflate trans rights activists with Sarah Everard's rape and murder.

But *the* epicentre of this is the Times - which carries pretty much daily trans-hate pieces.

[Blair]

It’s also remarkable how mainstream it has become; including within parts of Labour so quickly.

A change in the law to allow Self ID would have passed the commons in 2018 (when it was first expected) and likely would have got quite strong support- I think it would struggle to get more than 60% of the PLP now.

Puberty blockers and HRT have been common for many years yet are now attacked and very nearly got struck out in the courts for under-16 year olds.

In terms of the people behind it I do very much think it’s coming out of wanting a campaign and wanting an issue where you can believe (wrongly in my view) that you’re heroically fighting against the odds.

[CumbrianLefty]

And as so often, having almost the entire mainstream media at your beck and call does not stop you seeing yourself as "fighting heroically against the odds". Its approaching a pathology at this point.

[Blair]

On the above the latest target is a rather tame John Lewis advert that seems to have got a lot of people very angry.

British Twitter really is like a sh**t version of the old Mass Observation Survey.

[afleitch]

On the above the latest target is a rather tame John Lewis advert that seems to have got a lot of people very angry.

British Twitter really is like a sh**t version of the old Mass Observation Survey.

It's terrible. On twitter and Prosecco Storefront people are legitimately saying 'if that was me I'd smack him up and down.'

A very misandrist feminism is bring given a platform and it's utterly sickening.