UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[cp]

-snip-

I'm sure you're aware, but there is a Vice Chair, usually an MP, in CCHQ responsible for running the candidate selection process, to the point of timetabling selection meetings in constituencies.

There used to, and there may still be an unconscious tradition of 'rewarding' Conservative candidates who had stood in unwinnable seats or narrowly missed out on marginals previously over new candidates even when the latter are more local. I get the sense many candidates know this and therefore do so. Part of this is due to new openings and presumably long-time candidates snapping them up. A few examples might illustrate this:

-Theresa May, elected MP for Maidenhead in 1997, stood in North West Durham against Tim Farron (neither are from the area) in 1992.
-Jacob Rees-Mogg, elected MP for North East Somerset in 2010, stood in The Wrekin (it was Labour then) in 2001 and Central Fife or whatever the seat was called then in 1997. NE Somerset is his home seat.
-Bim Afolami, elected MP for Hitchin and Harpenden in 2017, stood in Lewisham Deptford in 2015.
-Paul Bristow, elected MP for Peterborough in 2019, stood in Middlesbrough South in 2010 - though in this case Peterborough is his home seat.
-Jonathan Gullis, elected MP for Stoke on Trent North in 2019, stood in Washington and Sunderland West in 2017.

Of course this happens in the other parties too (e.g. Ian Blackford is from Edinburgh and stood in Ayr previously) but far more prominently in the Tories. For all the furore that (justifiably) ensued when Paul Nuttall bought a flat in Stoke last minute during the by-election and slept on a mattress in it once or whatever, nobody makes a big deal when the Tories do it.

That could be an epigraph for all UK politics

[Filuwaúrdjan]

My favourite is alma-mater (shudder) Gerry Malone who lost in Hillhead in 1982, won Aberdeen South in 1983, lost it in 1987, won Winchester in 1992 lost it in 1997 by two votes, won a legal challenge and got hammered in the by-election

It was a long time ago when things were very different, but the list of constituencies that Leslie Haden-Guest* ran in is genuinely impressive in its range as well: the ones I remember offhand are Southwark North, Wycombe, Brecon & Radnor, and Islington North, but there might have been a few others - don't have access to a copy of Craig 1918-49 with its useful index right now.

_{*Labour's first Jewish MP (and parliamentary candidate, actually), later a member of the Lords. Grandfather of Christopher Guest who he looked pretty much exactly like.}

[IceAgeComing]

My favourite is alma-mater (shudder) Gerry Malone who lost in Hillhead in 1982, won Aberdeen South in 1983, lost it in 1987, won Winchester in 1992 lost it in 1997 by two votes, won a legal challenge and got hammered in the by-election

It was a long time ago when things were very different, but the list of constituencies that Leslie Haden-Guest* ran in is genuinely impressive in its range as well: the ones I remember offhand are Southwark North, Wycombe, Brecon & Radnor, and Islington North, but there might have been a few others - don't have access to a copy of Craig 1918-49 with its useful index right now.

_{*Labour's first Jewish MP (and parliamentary candidate, actually), later a member of the Lords. Grandfather of Christopher Guest who he looked pretty much exactly like.}

Luckily for you I own the complete run from 1832-1974 (went through a period of checking Amazon semi-regularly over a period of years and when someone was trying to sell at a reasonable price I bought): it says he contested Southwark Central for Labour in 1918, unsuccessfully contested Southwark North in 1922, winning it in 1923, holding it in 1924 before losing it in a March 1927 election after resigning from the Labour Party (over them sending troops to China apparently) and seeking re-election under a Constitutionalist label with support from local Conservatives (finished third behind the Liberals and Labour, which probably isn't that surprising for a candidate that left his party over a foreign policy issue before seeking re-election with the support of a party that was never strong in the constituency), contested Salford North for the Conservatives in 1929 (although Wikipedia states his party label as being "Unionist" which makes a lot more sense considering the area and the person; Craig doesn't differentiate between the two post-1910 since there's no practical difference), Wycombe for Labour in 1931 (probably one of a small handful of people that supported the Conservatives in 1929 but Labour in 1931), Breconshire and Radnorshire in 1935 and then he was elected MP for Islington North in an October 1937 by-election, then retaining it at the General before before going to the House of Lords before Parliament was dissolved in 1950.  I had a brief look at Craig 1885-1918 to see if there was anything pre-war but he is not in the index. So I guess he was only successful when he stood in London!

That far back is a different time though; while transport and communications links were rapidly improving I suspect that there was still an expectation that your MP would have to primarily live in London to get the job done and that having a local man was not an essential part of things.  Now while you'd think because of those improvements it might be easier for someone to be a genuinely good local MP while working remotely the expectations have heavily shifted and that local presence is a lot more part of the job: if anything it feels like the responsibilities of an MP have broadened significantly in recent decades.

[Blair]

I also hate the word red wall and this seat shows why- the Lib Dem’s almost won the by-election in 2004!

By the way - are Tory MPs who were able to kick out Labour from constituencies considered as Red Wall ones somehow different in terms of political views and used narratives compared to the rest of Conservatives?

There's generally three groups; the usual lobby fodder (a mix of former councillors, lobbyists, lawyers etc) the ones who do a lot to sell themselves & the idea that only they know the red wall and finally the 'oh god did they actually win'.

There's not a huge difference in ideology; but I don't know the internal dynamics of the Tory Party as well as Labour. It's also hard to tell as new MPs are less rebellious & more inclined to take the whip.

[Blair]

There's also the fundamental fact imo that every Tory MP welcomes Government money into their seat; regardless of their ideological views.

So while its admittedly true that they favour more intervention in the economy it does seem that the Red wall Tories always want taxes to go up on someone else, while the spending decisions benefit their seats. But that's pretty close to saying water is wet.

 

I don’t know a lot about how the selection process works in the Labour Party, but one thing you have to bear in mind about the Conservative party selection process is that it is incredibly centralised; in order to get round to applying to be the candidate in a particular seat, you need to pass the parliamentary assessment board (PAB), which to all intents and purposes functions much like a corporate interview process (with much of the same mindless crap playing a key role), and is managed centrally. If you pass this, that gets you onto a long list of approved candidates who are then eligible to apply to local constituency associations for selection. This does mean that aspiring candidates have to criss cross the country in order to find a winnable nomination (although this has always been a feature of candidate selection).

This process in and of itself is subject to intensive meddling by CCHQ; the shortlist will often consist of three candidates, one of which has to be a woman and another an ethnic minority. This is a legacy of the Cameron era in which the selection process was dramatically centralised to stop local associations constantly selecting white male barristers/bankers/local businessmen/farmers, as that was apparently insufficiently representative. The result of this has been that the Conservative party has dramatically diversified over the last fifteen years, not just in terms of gender and race, but also in terms of schooling and general social background (whilst a large number of Conservative MP’s continue to have been privately educated, that figure has fallen precipitously from what it used to be). A lot of the so-called Red Wall MP’s do come from very atypical backgrounds for a Conservative MP (although there are also some from traditional Tory backgrounds).

The selection process is essentially designed to produce candidates who, firstly, ‘look like modern Britain’ (whatever the hell that means) and, secondly, aren’t likely to rock the boat (and I think this discourages some more accomplished professional people from applying). This is good for publicity and party discipline but often produces dud local MP’s.

I read that John Bercow hired a helicopter so that he could attend different selection meetings in one day... and it paid off. 
 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Luckily for you I own the complete run from 1832-1974 (went through a period of checking Amazon semi-regularly over a period of years and when someone was trying to sell at a reasonable price I bought): it says he contested Southwark Central for Labour in 1918, unsuccessfully contested Southwark North in 1922, winning it in 1923, holding it in 1924 before losing it in a March 1927 election after resigning from the Labour Party (over them sending troops to China apparently) and seeking re-election under a Constitutionalist label with support from local Conservatives (finished third behind the Liberals and Labour, which probably isn't that surprising for a candidate that left his party over a foreign policy issue before seeking re-election with the support of a party that was never strong in the constituency), contested Salford North for the Conservatives in 1929 (although Wikipedia states his party label as being "Unionist" which makes a lot more sense considering the area and the person; Craig doesn't differentiate between the two post-1910 since there's no practical difference), Wycombe for Labour in 1931 (probably one of a small handful of people that supported the Conservatives in 1929 but Labour in 1931), Breconshire and Radnorshire in 1935 and then he was elected MP for Islington North in an October 1937 by-election, then retaining it at the General before before going to the House of Lords before Parliament was dissolved in 1950.  I had a brief look at Craig 1885-1918 to see if there was anything pre-war but he is not in the index. So I guess he was only successful when he stood in London!

What an absolute Legend.

[CumbrianLefty]

Funny we were discussing "Red Wall" Tory MPs - one of them has just "distinguished" themselves by suggesting anyone unhappy with compulsory flag worship should leave the country.

[YL]

Funny we were discussing "Red Wall" Tory MPs - one of them has just "distinguished" themselves by suggesting anyone unhappy with compulsory flag worship should leave the country.

It may soon be time to remove the cordon sanitaire around the word "fascist" when discussing some of these people.

[Cassius]

‘Kill the Bill’ demonstrators showcase their commitment to peaceful protest:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/22/twelve-police-officers-injured-in-bristol-kill-the-bill-protests

[CumbrianLefty]

More accurately perhaps, perfectly peaceful protest hijacked by trustifarian dicks?

[beesley]

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1374037808017506308?s=20

[Cassius]

More accurately perhaps, perfectly peaceful protest hijacked by trustifarian dicks?

Well possibly, but there were rather a lot of people involved and these types of protests do have a habit of being hijacked by ‘outsiders’ don’t they?

[EastAnglianLefty]

It's Bristol, so a lot of those trustafarian dicks will be local anyway.

[Blair]

The most baffling thing for me was that people were justifying it by saying ‘oh the government are outlawing protest’ but surely that argument gives the anti lockdown people the right to smash up a police van too?

[CumbrianLefty]

Well, there is also the small fact that vandalising/burning police vans is already illegal.

[Conservatopia]

More accurately perhaps, perfectly peaceful protest hijacked by trustifarian dicks?

Well possibly, but there were rather a lot of people involved and these types of protests do have a habit of being hijacked by ‘outsiders’ don’t they?

https://twitter.com/GeoffNorcott/status/1373922545402056706

It's Bristol, so a lot of those trustafarian dicks will be local anyway.

It's the limestone in the water that makes them behave like that.  Calcifies the mind.

[jaymichaud]

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375159513301590020

I seriously can't believe Britain is having fleg drama

[njwes]

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375159513301590020
I seriously can't believe Britain is having fleg drama

But which direction can't you believe it in?

[vileplume]

It's Bristol, so a lot of those trustafarian dicks will be local anyway.

Doubtful. I lived in Bristol for a number of years and over that time it became obvious that Bristol's 'radical' reputation is caused primarily by non-native-Bristolians of a left-wing disposition moving to the city. The 'homegrown' population is far, far less left wing.

Honestly I would be pretty shocked if a large majority of these people weren't originally from the middle class parts of London or the Tory Shires.

[beesley]

It's Bristol, so a lot of those trustafarian dicks will be local anyway.

Doubtful. I lived in Bristol for a number of years and over that time it became obvious that Bristol's 'radical' reputation is caused primarily by non-native-Bristolians of a left-wing disposition moving to the city. The 'homegrown' population is far, far less left wing.

They still live in Bristol though, which is a bit more relevant. Same goes for Brighton and Hove. I agree that it's not the same as Liverpool though.

[Blair]

For all the bed wetting (including from me!) these are rather good numbers for Labour on the economy and immigration!


https://mobile.twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1375371951481319425

[GenerationTerrorist]

RE the Flags on Buildings thing....I really can't see how it would affect me, either way.
Usually, I tend to look where I am going. Not up at a roof of a building to admire a flag. Lest I walk into a lamp post or fall down an open pub cellar.

[CumbrianLefty]

Some previous hot takes on the police and protests not looking so clever right now.

[Pericles]

Boris is lying-

Johnson also gave more information about the decisions behind the tier system of restrictions, saying that discovering the Kent variant of Covid-19, also known as B117, led to the system being dropped.

“That was an incredibly important moment, because we were then able to work out what was happening, because we could see that B117 was basically transmitting considerably faster,” he said.

“With that we were able to understand why the tiering system that had been basically working for much of the autumn just wasn’t going to work any more.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/27/data-still-supports-lifting-covid-19-restrictions-insists-boris-johnson

There was a second lockdown because the tiered system was not working! There was no point where the tiered system was working, the old one failed against the old variant, while the new upgraded tiered system got quickly overwhelmed by the new variant. The best that can be said is that hypothetically, the new tiered system would have worked against the old variant in December, but that's impossible to know for sure. Plus, Christmas easing probably would have been greater then and there would have been a third surge anyway.

[CumbrianLefty]

An utterly ludicrous and insulting to the intelligence, indeed all but actually gaslighting, "review" of police behaviour during the recent women's safety vigil in London has been published. Complete with genuinely Orwellian demands that people "apologise" for impugning their integrity.

Who is this actually meant to convince?