UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some people are saying that Gary Sambrook MP 'eats big dinners', I understand.

[Conservatopia]

Many in the party really dislike the job Milling is doing.  Her ham-fisted attempts to land blows on Starmer are a joke and just make things worse for us (the Tories).  Keir Starmer (I hate to say it) is hitting all the right buttons with his messaging and overall temperament.  We are hitting all the wrong buttons and it seems the only reason we remain ahead in the polls is Labour's still shot brand.

So much of the daily crises for the Tories are a result of terrible PR and messaging.  It's also blatantly clear that Boris is still suffering from some kind of long Covid meaning we have all the drawbacks of Boris with none of the (admittedly overhyped) benefits.

I think he has lost a huge amount of support here on the right/far-right of the party that he will really struggle to regain and that his support in the centre won't make up for.  The mood is such that I think the outcome of next year's local and devolved elections will determine the number of letters a certain MP for Altrincham has in his possession...

The problem is of course that there aren't any very credible contenders to replace him.  That being said a couple of members/supporters on the right are thinking Patel or Raab might do a good job.  Of course it's all rather academic while the pandemic is in full swing.

[afleitch]

Some people are saying that Gary Sambrook MP 'eats big dinners', I understand.

cockpisspartridge.jpeg

[DaWN]

Starmer is clearly playing the long game but if Labour can't advance from 'narrowly behind' to 'narrowly ahead' after the school meals debacle you have to wonder if the party's brand has been damaged on a more permanent basis than we thought

[Blair]

Many in the party really dislike the job Milling is doing.  Her ham-fisted attempts to land blows on Starmer are a joke and just make things worse for us (the Tories). Keir Starmer (I hate to say it) is hitting all the right buttons with his messaging and overall temperament.  We are hitting all the wrong buttons and it seems the only reason we remain ahead in the polls is Labour's still shot brand.

So much of the daily crises for the Tories are a result of terrible PR and messaging.  It's also blatantly clear that Boris is still suffering from some kind of long Covid meaning we have all the drawbacks of Boris with none of the (admittedly overhyped) benefits.

I think he has lost a huge amount of support here on the right/far-right of the party that he will really struggle to regain and that his support in the centre won't make up for.  The mood is such that I think the outcome of next year's local and devolved elections will determine the number of letters a certain MP for Altrincham has in his possession...

The problem is of course that there aren't any very credible contenders to replace him.  That being said a couple of members/supporters on the right are thinking Patel or Raab might do a good job.  Of course it's all rather academic while the pandemic is in full swing.

Interesting to hear the other side. I think Millings problem is that she (or most likely her staff) don't seem to know they need to change the copy & pasted attacked lines they get; it's fine when lobby fodder MPs share it but it just means that you don't really take any attack seriously. It's like sure the Tory Chairwomen is going to call Keir a sh**t aren't they?

I think the fact that even I seen Raab as the safe pair of hands in the Cabinet really does show a lot about the state it's in.

Theresa May's cabinet had the problem of having people who were disliked in the party & were either middle managers who'd floated into the top job (brokenshire, Clarke, Cairns), old hands doing a last round (Fox, Fallon, Hammond) or the incompetent sycophants (Grayling, Bradley etc).

It meant that the party had a cabinet that was pretty much just a holding pattern; Boris did to his credit dispatch them but he seemed to follow the advice of political twitter* and attempt to skip a generation of talent; providing that talent A.) Supported Brexit B.) Supported Boris C.) Didn't have any ideas about opposing him.

This cabinet could have survived an ordinary year but during a pandemic its been painfully out of it's depth; I mean there's a reason we're seeing Nicky Morgan on Question Time!

We know that both Grant Shapps & Gavin Williamson got jobs purely because they got Boris the numbers in his leadership bid; Shapps has actually been a lot stronger than I expected (perhaps because he is a product of the Cameron years) while Williamson has been even worse than he was at Defence.

He's responsible for the two biggest cocks up that the Government has had; he should have been sacked for the A-Levels fiasco. I don't say this in a 'oh why don't Ministers quit over minor mistake x' I mean this was a ministerial error on every level. I honestly think that books will be written over how much of a failure that was.

The funny thing I've noticed is that the golden goose of Rishi seems to be cracking; I've always actually thought his best route to power is either covid or Boris Johnson going away by April. His opinon ratings are only going to go down & he appears to have misplayed his hand a few times recently.





*please see the alternative for Labour which called for Yvette Cooper, Jess Phillips & Lord Miliband to be on Keirs frontbench- advice he rightly ignored.

[Blair]

Starmer is clearly playing the long game but if Labour can't advance from 'narrowly behind' to 'narrowly ahead' after the school meals debacle you have to wonder if the party's brand has been damaged on a more permanent basis than we thought

FWIW Labour were leading by +2 in one poll over the weekend & tied in another. With the non-election pace of decent high quality polling I think it's generally hard to find a constant ticking reaction to this stuff in public polls.

I'm also generally scared by this approach as I remember the joy when Ed M had 'won' some random debate over Energy prices, got a +3 boost in the polls and lured people like me into thinking he's won.

I'll be generally more than happy for Keir to remain between 38-42% as long as he can keep leading on Leadership & take some of the shine off the lead the Tories have on the economy.

[Blair]

Apologies for triple posting but this is actually much longer & more interesting than I thought it would be.

Basically there's an old fashioned fight between the DofE & Treasury over who is to blame for this; naturally the answer is the Prime Minister!


https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/marcus-rashford-boris-johnson-tory-revolt-johnsonism_uk_5f96d22ac5b6f077523596d3

[EastAnglianLefty]

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the Treasury didn't turn down a request from Williamson for more money, because neither he nor Sunak wants it; but also that HMT probably did tell DoE civil servants on the quiet that they shouldn't try to persuade Williamson to ask for more money because it wouldn't work and they'd lose friends in Downing Street if they tried it.

[CumbrianLefty]

Starmer is clearly playing the long game but if Labour can't advance from 'narrowly behind' to 'narrowly ahead' after the school meals debacle you have to wonder if the party's brand has been damaged on a more permanent basis than we thought

FWIW Labour were leading by +2 in one poll over the weekend & tied in another. With the non-election pace of decent high quality polling I think it's generally hard to find a constant ticking reaction to this stuff in public polls.

I'm also generally scared by this approach as I remember the joy when Ed M had 'won' some random debate over Energy prices, got a +3 boost in the polls and lured people like me into thinking he's won.

I'll be generally more than happy for Keir to remain between 38-42% as long as he can keep leading on Leadership & take some of the shine off the lead the Tories have on the economy.

And the poll claiming to show the Tories still leading 42-39 also says they are ahead in Scotland (!) and London (!!)

(the most recent London-only poll, to put that in context, had Labour ahead by 53-26 for a GE)

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Re: Labour's polling, I suspect the popularity of Sunak and the free pass his economic measures are getting in the press is what's keeping the Conservatives ahead.

As long as voters trust the Conservatives to run the economy (and Labour are seen as an unknown risk on that issue) I think they'll be fine.

[CumbrianLefty]

Sunak's scores are dropping slowly, Labour's ratings on the economy are also gradually rising.

Looking at polling internals there may be an argument that whilst Tory headline scores remain good, their support is gradually being "hollowed out" in the same way New Labour's was over time. There might be only Brexit that is really holding most of that 40% together now, which of course raises the question of what happens when that is finally (?) "done" next year.

[Angel of Death]

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1321111401323208704

The only thing that might save the Union.
However, if such a change ever were to be seriously considered (which I'd only expect from a minority Labour government), let alone be put to a referendum, I'd fully expect the Tories, the tabloids, Cambridge Analytica and what have you to go all World War 3 against proportional representation.
A bit like how Catherine the Great took the new liberal Polish-Lithuanian constitution as a threat.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Sunak's scores are dropping slowly, Labour's ratings on the economy are also gradually rising.

Looking at polling internals there may be an argument that whilst Tory headline scores remain good, their support is gradually being "hollowed out" in the same way New Labour's was over time. There might be only Brexit that is really holding most of that 40% together now, which of course raises the question of what happens when that is finally (?) "done" next year.

You'll remember - horribly well! - how Labour's poll ratings were remarkably good for almost a year after the 2005 election: quite often higher than polled during that election and so in a very tight two-way contest with the newly invigorated Conservatives. This despite increasingly poor approval ratings and then by-elections; national and local. Turned out to be so much of nothingness.

[Silent Hunter]

Labour's going to have a difficult day or two; the ECHR report is out tomorrow.

[Conservatopia]

Corbyn suspended from Labour over EHRC report.

[Blair]

Corbyn suspended from Labour over EHRC report.

Specifically for his comments in response to them.

[Ferguson97]

Wow Corbyn was suspended.

[Former President tack50]

When was the last time a former party leader was suspended?

[CumbrianLefty]

Corbyn suspended from Labour over EHRC report.

FWIW this is inaccurate, the suspension is because of his reaction to it.

[Conservatopia]

Corbyn suspended from Labour over EHRC report.

FWIW this is inaccurate, the suspension is because of his reaction to it.

You are correct yes sorry.

I wonder what impact this has on the Labour NEC elections?

[Blair]

Corbyn suspended from Labour over EHRC report.

FWIW this is inaccurate, the suspension is because of his reaction to it.

You are correct yes sorry.

I wonder what impact this has on the Labour NEC elections?

In all fairness I might have jumped the gun as it still appears vague despite the comments by the Labour spokesperson.

[jaymichaud]

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1321111401323208704

The only thing that might save the Union.
However, if such a change ever were to be seriously considered (which I'd only expect from a minority Labour government), let alone be put to a referendum, I'd fully expect the Tories, the tabloids, Cambridge Analytica and what have you to go all World War 3 against proportional representation.
A bit like how Catherine the Great took the new liberal Polish-Lithuanian constitution as a threat.

I guess Labour would need to win Scotland, but reasons would a center-left voter there have to vote for them though? Unless they want Brexit of course.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Labour's going to have a difficult day or two; the ECHR report is out tomorrow.

Just read it. It's such a blatant wash that I was almost tempted to call it comical although the matter is serious even if it's mostly a political fabrication.

[Alben Barkley]

Seems like Starmer is the real deal, he’s not screwing around. If he takes Labour back in a more Blairist direction, I might root for them again.

[Pericles]

Seems like Starmer is the real deal, he’s not screwing around. If he takes Labour back in a more Blairist direction, I might root for them again.

He does seem like a credible leader, I prefer him to Corbyn for sure. But hopefully his policies aren't like the 2000s, but he can take a lot of the good stuff from the 2017 manifesto and be a more credible messenger for it.