Can nationalism and popularism be defeated in 2020 or is Trump inevitable?

[Queen Isuelt]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Trump isnt destined to win just because he wins the upper midwest again. Unlike in 2016, AZ and TX are more Democratic friendly than the upper midwest and a scenario in which a 1976 election instead of a 2016 election can play put. That was the last time, Dems won TX, Biden is tied with Trump in TX, and Trump wont win again.  Hilary was a female and the country is more likely to vote for a female Veep in Sally Yates than for Prez. Due to terrorism and 911

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

With all due respect, Scarlett, but didn't you say you would vote for Trump (or Klobuchar) if the election was held today? Why the concern if you don't believe that the Democrats can win no matter who they nominate?

In that context, this feels more like a pre-emptive "nothing you can do about it, lefties" post.  


And sorry, Cory Booker, Texas may be closer than 2016 and there's a definite trend there, but it's just not going to flip in 2020.

[Queen Isuelt]

With all due respect, Scarlett, but didn't you say you would vote for Trump (or Klobuchar) if the election was held today? Why the concern if you don't believe that the Democrats can win no matter who they nominate?

In that context, this feels more like a pre-emptive "nothing you can do about it, lefties" post.  


And sorry, Cory Booker, Texas may be closer than 2016 and there's a definite trend there, but it's just not going to flip in 2020.

Correct. I will be voting for Trump if Klobuchar is not the nominee. I'm not voting for Trump because I like him but I don't have a choice compared to what is being offered.

My concern is the "noise" from both far left and far right. In 2018, a message was sent to democrats that if they put rational people in the ballot like Elissa Slotkin, Kendra Horn, Abigail Spanberger, Elaine Luria, Cindy Axne then voters will vote for it. Instead the democrats think we want AOC, Ilhan Omar and Bernie Sanders.

The country has serious economic/social problems. The jobs aren't coming back to many communities but the lack of hope and trust is extremely worrying and democrats. I'm probably a John Kasich kind of republican. 

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

With all due respect, Scarlett, but didn't you say you would vote for Trump (or Klobuchar) if the election was held today? Why the concern if you don't believe that the Democrats can win no matter who they nominate?

In that context, this feels more like a pre-emptive "nothing you can do about it, lefties" post.  


And sorry, Cory Booker, Texas may be closer than 2016 and there's a definite trend there, but it's just not going to flip in 2020.

Correct. I will be voting for Trump if Klobuchar is not the nominee. I'm not voting for Trump because I like him but I don't have a choice compared to what is being offered.

My concern is the "noise" from both far left and far right. In 2018, a message was sent to democrats that if they put rational people in the ballot like Elissa Slotkin, Kendra Horn, Abigail Spanberger, Elaine Luria, Cindy Axne then voters will vote for it. Instead the democrats think we want AOC, Ilhan Omar and Bernie Sanders.

The country has serious economic/social problems. The jobs aren't coming back to many communities but the lack of hope and trust is extremely worrying and democrats. I'm probably a John Kasich kind of republican. 

But the nation doesn't have a completely uniform political landscape.  An AOC works in New York City.  But a Kendra Horn may have been viewed as TOO conservative. 

I personally like that AOC is a young-WOC (not much older than myself) in Congress.  But her policies are just much too liberal for me.  Ditto for Bernie, though I'd gladly shake his hand bc he just seems like a super pleasant guy.  Haven't quite made up my mind on Omar, yet.  I think there are times when she just needs to stop talking. 

I view myself in the Lisa Murkowski mould of a Republican, though some of her environmental policies have disappointed me.  I think it would be a mistake for the Democrats to nominate a Warren or a Sanders.  My vote would be for Biden.  There will never ever be a scenario where I''ll vote for Trump.  But a full-bore surge to the left isn't the answer for 2020.  Not yet, anyway. 

[SuperCow]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

Maybe if the left would denounce communism (or socialism or progressivism or whatever they want to call it these days) they would stand a chance with that demographic.

I am reminded of the fictional show "House of Cards" (US version), where Frank Underwood is giving his speech to promote his jobs act. And though his character was a slimy worst-case type of politician, that speech he gave (despite coming from a Democrat) would have certainly got my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E&feature=youtu.be

[Hindsight was 2020]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

Maybe if the left would denounce communism (or socialism or progressivism or whatever they want to call it these days) they would stand a chance with that demographic.

I am reminded of the fictional show "House of Cards" (US version), where Frank Underwood is giving his speech to promote his jobs act. And though his character was a slimy worst-case type of politician, that speech he gave (despite coming from a Democrat) would have certainly got my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E&feature=youtu.be

The fact you think those terms are interchangeable for the same idea shows how politically uninformed you are

[SuperCow]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

Maybe if the left would denounce communism (or socialism or progressivism or whatever they want to call it these days) they would stand a chance with that demographic.

I am reminded of the fictional show "House of Cards" (US version), where Frank Underwood is giving his speech to promote his jobs act. And though his character was a slimy worst-case type of politician, that speech he gave (despite coming from a Democrat) would have certainly got my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E&feature=youtu.be

The fact you think those terms are interchangeable for the same idea shows how politically uninformed you are

They are all stepping stones to communism, whether they go all the way there or not is irrelevant. Every step towards is detrimental to success.

[BlueSwan]

I think the answer is fairly easy. If the democrats are perceived to believe in open borders and no restrictions to immigration, then they lose. This is certain. It should be feasible to have a platform with tough restrictions on immigration, but treating people who have actually immigrated in a dignified manner.

In Denmark, the social democrats regained power in an emphatic manner this year by embracing hardline restrictions on immigration, so that for the first time in decades it is now the right wing parties who are scratching their heads as to how to possibly beat the combination of hardline immigration policies and welfare populism. As much as I pesonally dislike this political platform, I do believe that it is currently the only feasible way for center-left parties to gain power in the west. The white working class everywhere in the west will simply not tolerate large scale immigration from third world countries anymore and they will vote against their own economic interests to prevent this.

[Queen Isuelt]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

Maybe if the left would denounce communism (or socialism or progressivism or whatever they want to call it these days) they would stand a chance with that demographic.

I am reminded of the fictional show "House of Cards" (US version), where Frank Underwood is giving his speech to promote his jobs act. And though his character was a slimy worst-case type of politician, that speech he gave (despite coming from a Democrat) would have certainly got my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E&feature=youtu.be

The fact you think those terms are interchangeable for the same idea shows how politically uninformed you are

Bernie is a socialist though however I have never heard him answer the question if he thinks people have a right to private property. Bernie does believe that the central government should be responsible for providing basic necessities from housing, healthcare and education. My understanding of Bernie is that he wants to pass socialist policies through the democratic process. The problem with democratic socialism is once they get power they act like communists. Socialism only developed as a consequence of the industrial revolution. We are facing difficult economic/social challenges today and this is why we are seeing the emergence of sanders.

a vote for bernie is a vote for socialism which could lead to communism.  

[Agonized-Statism]

a vote for bernie is a vote for socialism which could lead to communism.  

Ok boomer

[Sir Mohamed]

The UK election and next year's presidential election are hardly comparable in many ways. Electorate, voting system and interest groups are vastly different in both countries, just as the two main parties are hardly comparable. Labour ran a bad campaign with unclear positions on main issues such as Brexit. Labour never had a polling advatage throught the campaign and before.

So essentially you're comparing apples an oranges.

[Sir Mohamed]

Trump isnt destined to win just because he wins the upper midwest again. Unlike in 2016, AZ and TX are more Democratic friendly than the upper midwest and a scenario in which a 1976 election instead of a 2016 election can play put. That was the last time, Dems won TX, Biden is tied with Trump in TX, and Trump wont win again.  Hilary was a female and the country is more likely to vote for a female Veep in Sally Yates than for Prez. Due to terrorism and 911

Dems aren't destined to win just because they win southern states again. Unlike in 2008, MI, PA and WI are much more GOP friendly than the Sun Belt and a scenrio which is like 2000 election instead of a 2008 election can play put. That was the last time, GOP won NH, Trump is almost tied with Dems in NH, and Dems wont win again.  McCain was an establishment hack and the country is more likely to vote for a Evangelical Veep like Pence than for Prez. Due to SSM and Benghazi 😎

[Frenchrepublican]

What you should understand (I'm talking here to the OP) is that the British Conservatives won ''only'' 45% of the vote, which is basically the same share that the GOP won last year in the US ; the Conservatives won big because the left bloc was fractured between the Labour, the LibDems, the SNP and the Greens, which is not the case in the US where the left is largely unified behind one party, you should not worry, the UK elections mean nothing for the next presidential election, and I would bet my shirt that even a communist like Sanders would be able to 48% of the American vote.

[GoTfan]

Why do people insist on calling Sanders a communist when actual communists have attacked him for not being left-wing enough?

[Strudelcutie4427]

Why do people insist on calling Sanders a communist when actual communists have attacked him for not being left-wing enough?

Stalin would have called Khrushchev soft but that doesn’t change who he was

[redeagleofficial]

Populist nationalism is the only thing saving this country from the brink of collapse, and as much as dems push social engineering to alter the demography of this nation, it isn't going to go away.

[Middle-aged Europe]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

Maybe if the left would denounce communism (or socialism or progressivism or whatever they want to call it these days) they would stand a chance with that demographic.

I am reminded of the fictional show "House of Cards" (US version), where Frank Underwood is giving his speech to promote his jobs act. And though his character was a slimy worst-case type of politician, that speech he gave (despite coming from a Democrat) would have certainly got my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E&feature=youtu.be

The fact you think those terms are interchangeable for the same idea shows how politically uninformed you are

They are all stepping stones to communism, whether they go all the way there or not is irrelevant. Every step towards is detrimental to success.

Going by that definition anything short of full-blown anarcho-capitalism could be considered a "stepping stone to communism"... for one thing, Donald Trump's anti-free trade stance led to the most Soviet Union-like U.S. trade policy since the end of WWII.

[redeagleofficial]

the UK election is very complicated but its very similar to a Michigan, Pennslyvania and Wisconsin.

The combination of white economic popularism and hidden nationalism is an impossible combination to beat.

I don't actually know how you defeat economic nationalism in this current climate? We have a social media platform in facebook that allows any perception to be created whether true or false. We have a distrust in the media and we have a system where voters only want to listen to people with their views.

We are literally having a realignment of uneducated poor people voting for a party that solely fights for the interests of the rich and uses culture wars to pick up votes compared to a left that panders to what is right or wrong.

The left continues to be defeated and they continue to make the same mistakes because they have no answers to address white working class people.

If the left chooses Biden we have a re-run of 2016 and if the left chooses Sanders we have a massacre. The left needs to find answers fast to defeat this toxic mix of white economic nationalism and popularism because if it doesn't then Trump will win in 2020.
 

Maybe if the left would denounce communism (or socialism or progressivism or whatever they want to call it these days) they would stand a chance with that demographic.

I am reminded of the fictional show "House of Cards" (US version), where Frank Underwood is giving his speech to promote his jobs act. And though his character was a slimy worst-case type of politician, that speech he gave (despite coming from a Democrat) would have certainly got my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUyPjguq6E&feature=youtu.be

The fact you think those terms are interchangeable for the same idea shows how politically uninformed you are

They are all stepping stones to communism, whether they go all the way there or not is irrelevant. Every step towards is detrimental to success.

Going by that definition anything short of full-blown anarcho-capitalism could be considered a "stepping stone to communism"... for one thing, Donald Trump's anti-free trade stance led to the most Soviet Union-like U.S. trade policy since the end of WWII.

I agree Trump is left on Trade and Bernie is too

[GoTfan]

Why do people insist on calling Sanders a communist when actual communists have attacked him for not being left-wing enough?

Stalin would have called Khrushchev soft but that doesn’t change who he was

Please do explain how Sanders is a communist, because I've never heard him call for the abolition of private property or for workers to sieze the means of production.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Trump is as inevitable as he is guaranteed to lose.

But whether Trumpism is defeated or not will depend on what direction the Republican Party decides to take if they lose the Presidency, or even the Senate, next year.

[W]

let us dispel this idea that populism is the bad thing here, trump's nativist rhetoric is the important thing to put in the sand here.

[SuperCow]

Going by that definition anything short of full-blown anarcho-capitalism could be considered a "stepping stone to communism"... for one thing, Donald Trump's anti-free trade stance led to the most Soviet Union-like U.S. trade policy since the end of WWII.

If the US was currently anarcho-capitalist, then you would be correct, but it is not. As an example, China has moved right since the 80's and earlier, therefore their push into fascism is a short stepping stone to capitalism, even though they are still far left compared to the US.