Why Right Leaning Posters on this forum should not support Trump in 2020

[SuperCow]

The fact that Bush 43 turned a generation against the GOP supports OSR’s argument.

Bush 43 turned Republicans and conservative independents agains the GOP by totally abandoning the agenda he promised us in the 2004 primary convention, following it up by bungling Iraq, losing the messaging war on Katrina, and violated conservative principles in 2008. No GOP could have won after that.

The long-term argument is BS. I believed that crap in 2008 and didn’t care about McCain’s loss. (I wasn’t eligible to vote back then yet anyway.) Then Romney campaigned like a wimp and we got the worst 8 years since I moved to this country. Trump won because we were tired of Obama, and we were tired of conservatives always giving in to the Democrats, and we were tired of people thinking that Bush, McCain, Romney and Kasich are conservative. We wanted someone who would make everyone mad and fight for what they believed in, regardless of his total lack of political niceties.

He will win again because he hasn’t stopped fighting, and the best he can do is keep fighting for four more years, and the next GOP has a better chance in this scenario, because people will be ready for someone who is more politically sensitive, but won’t feel like they have to give up their principles to win.

Trump needs to win for these reasons:

He needs to outlast Ginsburg and flip more circuit courts.
We can’t let the Dems dictate immigration policy, until the problem is fixed.
If we do have a recession, we don’t want a president thinking he can spend his way out of it. Even if it happened after Trump left office, he would still get blamed for it in the media, so that argument is DOA.
We can’t let the Dems dictate military policy, since every one who’s been president since FDR has been incompetent at it.

I wish someone would cut spending, but since everyone goes ape-@#$% whenever someone tries, it has become a non-issue to me, because they always give up.
I was hesitant on his trade policies, but they seem to be close to success, and it is another example of him not giving up due to backlash.
I’d hate to see corporate taxes go up again, even after it’s the main reason the economy hasn’t failed.

[SuperCow]

There likely will be a recession in 2022 so if Trump wins and say Republicans have 52-53 seats they will lose : PA, WI, IA, GA, AZ(if McSally wins) for sure and OH probably too since recessions hit states like OH very badly compared to the rest of the nation  . So that means they lose 6 and that drops Republicans down to 47 seats. Then in 2024 they probably lose TX, FL and some other surprise race and that drops them to 44. Ok so thats 56-44 and Dems probably then may well wipe the filibuster out and other than Manchin, Sinema , Tester well that passes and with a far left president well then so many things will get passed.

If there is a recession in 2022, Trump will get blamed regardless.
If there is a recession in 2022, it only hurts his 2024 chances if there is a horrible long recovery like 2008. Reagan had a long recession in 1982 and it was his recovery that everyone remembered into 1984, not the recession. Reagan avoided a potential recession in 1987, which helped Bush 41 the next year get elected, though he screwed up his own reelection a few years later.
If there is a recession in 2022, it will be over by 2024 in any scenario and Trump will take credit. In that scenario some seats may be lost in 2022, but it won't hurt 2024.

In any event, you have no idea whether the next recession will be 2022, 2020, or 2030, so basing your vote on the timing of a variably cyclical event of the future is beyond foolish.

[SuperCow]

Right wingers always have historically chosen fascism even against the most milquetoast leftists (just see them voting for Nazi Bolsonaro over Blairite Haddad in Brazil). Not worth it, you'll get 5 of them to vote for Joe Biden and no one else.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Fascism is a left-wing ideology. (And I don't care about the bull-#### definition from Wikipedia.) Mussolini was a communist and accepted fascism for practical purposes, but was still ideologically far left. Just because Hitler attacked communist Stalin does not make him right wing. The Democrats have always been more aligned with these ideologies than Republicans.

Three main ideologies that make up the Democrat party. (All the conservatives have been purged from the party years ago.)

Fascism is an authoritarian government controlling business. Therefore every time a new regulation is created or a new oversight division is added, that makes the government more fascist. Donald Trump's elimination of regulations and weakening of cabinet administrative powers is the opposite of fascism. Democrats have always pushed for more regulations which makes them more fascist. (along with some of George W. Bush's policies sadly) This includes people like Joe Biden and Barack Obama.

Communism is an authoritarian government controlling peoples well-being and livelihood. Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez policies, for instance. Nobody on the right aligns with these policies.

Socialism and progressivism is the same as communism with one key difference. The communists are honest about what they are trying to achieve. The socialists try to mask it with doublespeak so as not to offend people's natural tendencies towards freedom. This would be someone like Elizabeth Warren.

Nationalism is separate from any of these ideologies, but could be combined with any of them as they were in WW2 with practically every country that was involved in the war regardless of their other policies. You can associate this currently with Republicans to a greater extent than Democrats.

Imperialism is controlling and imposing your ideals and will on other nations. This is also a separate ideological class that could be combined with any of the first three, and to certain extent has existed in both major parties. Libertarians would be an example of a party that is opposed to any kind of Imperialism, except maybe in self-defense.

[SuperCow]

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

These are the 14 characteristics of fascism. Tell me which of these describe Democrats.

While I reject his premise that most of these are fascist, but rather totalitarianism (which is both left-wing and right-wing), I will take a bite from your list based on the current state of the parties:

Democrats - #2, #3, #6, #13, #14 for sure.
Republicans - #1, #4,
Both - #7, #8, #9
Neither - #5, #10, #11, #12

[SuperCow]

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

These are the 14 characteristics of fascism. Tell me which of these describe Democrats.

While I reject his premise that most of these are fascist, but rather totalitarianism (which is both left-wing and right-wing), I will take a bite from your list based on the current state of the parties:

Democrats - #2, #3, #6, #13, #14 for sure.
Republicans - #1, #4,
Both - #7, #8, #9
Neither - #5, #10, #11, #12

How do the Democrats disdain human rights?

By going after and attacking people for their religious beliefs; trying to force them to be punished if they do not go against their religious beliefs. Fortunately the Supreme Court at least recognizes this for now.

ie. Sisters of Mercy, Jack Phillips (baker)

Organizing boycotts of Christian businesses and organizations or businesses who donated to a conservative politician.

ie. Chick-Fil-A

Organizing campaigns to get people fired for having an opposing viewpoint.

What scapegoats do the Democrats have?

Russia, any GOP politician, anyone wearing a MAGA hat, any black conservative spokesperson.

How do the Democrats control the media

Pretty much every media outlet except for Fox News, talk radio and a few internet sites.

What rampant cronyism and corruption occur under Democrats?

Frenchrepublican already answered this.

What fraudulent elections have occurred under the Democrats?

Voter fraud - Opposing Real ID act, opposing removing dead people from voter roles, voting twice across precinct or state lines. Voter intimidation (Black Panthers, and going back in history, southern Democrats, KKK)

[SuperCow]

If all those things make Democrats fascist, then surely, you agree that, through the anti-Semetic and Islamophobic rhetoric, advocation of torture, proposed stripping US citizens of their rights, using Hispanics and Muslims as scapegoats, criticism of the free press, cronyism and corruption of the Trump administration, voter suppression, and voter fraud, that the GOP is fascist.

First off, I didn't agree that those things made you fascist. That was your list. In fact I think that the only items on that list at all related to fascism are #2, #6, #8, #9, & #13. The other 9 are symptoms of society that are the eventual result of the implementation of fascism.

1.) I have seen no evidence that the GOP or Trump is anti-Semetic. If anything he is the opposite.
2.) It is not Islamophobic or anti-Hispanic to want to enforce the border.
3.) What rights have been stripped from US citizens? It is the Democrats that want to strip the right of free speech (unless it fits with their dogma), the right to bear arms (unless it's to protect a congressman), the right to free practice of religion (unless it doesn't offend a liberal).
4.) Criticism of a free press is free speech, just like the press is free to criticize the president and people who support him at every turn.
5.) What corruption? Do you mean investigating the corruption that Biden admitted to on camera, which is what they are criticizing Trump for, which is the definition of a scapegoat?
6.) What voter suppression? Do you mean restricting the rights of non-citizens to vote based on the constitution, or creating laws so people don't vote twice or in other people's name?
7.) I'll give you cronyism item. That's a figment of every party and every person who's ever been elected to office.
8.) Everyone I've ever seen be arrested for voter fraud in my lifetime has been a Democrat.
9.) The GOP is not fascist. They attempt to remove barriers to freedom. The Democrats seek to add them.