Actions of Bernie Sanders supporters thread
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GoTfan
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« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2019, 09:07:29 PM »


Please do explain why the US can't have universal healthcare like every single other developed country in the world.

This is the kind of disingenuous argument I'm talking about.

A
The Democratic Party has been pushing universal health care since at least the Carter administration, when Kennedy and Carter battled over it.  Hillary Clinton pushed a universal health care bill in 1993.  Barack Obama wanted a public option in the ACA, and in fact this was passed by Pelosi and the house.  Hillary Clinton ran on a public option in 2016, and nearly every candidate is running on some variation of a public option (including, now, Warren).

B
Bernie likes to lie that "every single other developed country in the world" has single payer, like his M4A plan.  This is completely false.  Only the UK, Canada, Taiwan, and South Korea have single-payer systems, and these are very different from Bernie's proposed system.  When you think of countries like Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, France, etc. these have wildly different health care systems but all have some combination of public and private insurance for public and private hospitals and providers.  They vary in the degree of utilization for government services.  But they are all far more similar to the systems proposed by Biden, Buttigieg, Clinton, Obama, etc. than to what Bernie has proposed.

So yes, I want us to have universal health care similar to what the vast majority of developed nations have.  That's why I support Biden and defend Buttigieg.  A public option is universal health care.

You honestly think either of your Gods will actually do anything for a public option?

Hmm let's see.  On the one hand you have Joe Biden, who was VP in the administration that expended 100% of its political capital trying to get universal health care done, and Nancy Pelosi who passed universal health care in the House.

On the other you have a guy who's introduced the same plan every year for the last 40 years with zero effort to actually flesh it out, add any practical/financial details, or build support for it.  A guy who, when asked how he would get it passed in Congress, couldn't come up with an answer better than "a big movement to force Republicans to join us."  And a plan that even Elizabeth Warren, who is far more intelligent than Bernie, couldn't figure out how to realistically pay for -- in fact she tanked her campaign trying to do so.

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2019, 09:11:27 PM »
« Edited: December 12, 2019, 09:44:16 PM by GeneralMacArthur »

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.

Were you alive in 2009?  Do you remember what a disaster health care was before then, and how close we came to having absolutely zero reform?

Like what did you want Obama to do?
Do you understand how many lives the ACA has saved?
Do you understand that even just passing the ACA was one of the biggest fights in American history and required devastating, crippling sacrifices from the Democratic Party that we're still reeling from ten years later?

Also, comparing any contemporary politics to Richard Nixon, or any pre-Reagan GOP politician, is silly.  The Republican party lurched extremely far to the right in the 80s and 90s.  Nixon and his policies would be laughed out of the party today.  Also remember that Nixon had to work with a solid D congress and his policies often reflect that.

It's very frustrating to me, as someone who followed the Obamacare debate extremely closely, to see all the gaslighting and lying going on these days.  Like this was one of the most difficult political fights ever and the Democrats sacrificed everything to win it by the skin of their teeth, and ten years later we have this whole movement of people saying the party is awful because we didn't fight hard enough and didn't pass a good enough plan.

I mean we had 60 Senate seats in 2008, and this was such a severe fight that a year later a Republican got elected in Massachusetts on a single-issue stop-universal-health-care campaign.  And we didn't fight hard enough?  We didn't sacrifice enough?
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MAGA Maggie's Masshole Mob
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« Reply #127 on: December 13, 2019, 12:46:20 AM »

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GoTfan
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« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2019, 12:49:08 AM »

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.

Were you alive in 2009?  Do you remember what a disaster health care was before then, and how close we came to having absolutely zero reform?

Like what did you want Obama to do?
Do you understand how many lives the ACA has saved?
Do you understand that even just passing the ACA was one of the biggest fights in American history and required devastating, crippling sacrifices from the Democratic Party that we're still reeling from ten years later?

Also, comparing any contemporary politics to Richard Nixon, or any pre-Reagan GOP politician, is silly.  The Republican party lurched extremely far to the right in the 80s and 90s.  Nixon and his policies would be laughed out of the party today.  Also remember that Nixon had to work with a solid D congress and his policies often reflect that.

It's very frustrating to me, as someone who followed the Obamacare debate extremely closely, to see all the gaslighting and lying going on these days.  Like this was one of the most difficult political fights ever and the Democrats sacrificed everything to win it by the skin of their teeth, and ten years later we have this whole movement of people saying the party is awful because we didn't fight hard enough and didn't pass a good enough plan.

I mean we had 60 Senate seats in 2008, and this was such a severe fight that a year later a Republican got elected in Massachusetts on a single-issue stop-universal-health-care campaign.  And we didn't fight hard enough?  We didn't sacrifice enough?

You finished?

I noticed you didn't even address my point at all. Not that it's out of the norm.
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MAGA Maggie's Masshole Mob
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« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2019, 01:00:17 AM »

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.

Were you alive in 2009?  Do you remember what a disaster health care was before then, and how close we came to having absolutely zero reform?

Like what did you want Obama to do?
Do you understand how many lives the ACA has saved?
Do you understand that even just passing the ACA was one of the biggest fights in American history and required devastating, crippling sacrifices from the Democratic Party that we're still reeling from ten years later?

Also, comparing any contemporary politics to Richard Nixon, or any pre-Reagan GOP politician, is silly.  The Republican party lurched extremely far to the right in the 80s and 90s.  Nixon and his policies would be laughed out of the party today.  Also remember that Nixon had to work with a solid D congress and his policies often reflect that.

It's very frustrating to me, as someone who followed the Obamacare debate extremely closely, to see all the gaslighting and lying going on these days.  Like this was one of the most difficult political fights ever and the Democrats sacrificed everything to win it by the skin of their teeth, and ten years later we have this whole movement of people saying the party is awful because we didn't fight hard enough and didn't pass a good enough plan.

I mean we had 60 Senate seats in 2008, and this was such a severe fight that a year later a Republican got elected in Massachusetts on a single-issue stop-universal-health-care campaign.  And we didn't fight hard enough?  We didn't sacrifice enough?

You finished?

I noticed you didn't even address my point at all. Not that it's out of the norm.

On the bright side, MacArthur doesn't want to see people like us dead.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #130 on: December 13, 2019, 01:12:38 AM »

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.

Were you alive in 2009?  Do you remember what a disaster health care was before then, and how close we came to having absolutely zero reform?

Like what did you want Obama to do?
Do you understand how many lives the ACA has saved?
Do you understand that even just passing the ACA was one of the biggest fights in American history and required devastating, crippling sacrifices from the Democratic Party that we're still reeling from ten years later?

Also, comparing any contemporary politics to Richard Nixon, or any pre-Reagan GOP politician, is silly.  The Republican party lurched extremely far to the right in the 80s and 90s.  Nixon and his policies would be laughed out of the party today.  Also remember that Nixon had to work with a solid D congress and his policies often reflect that.

It's very frustrating to me, as someone who followed the Obamacare debate extremely closely, to see all the gaslighting and lying going on these days.  Like this was one of the most difficult political fights ever and the Democrats sacrificed everything to win it by the skin of their teeth, and ten years later we have this whole movement of people saying the party is awful because we didn't fight hard enough and didn't pass a good enough plan.

I mean we had 60 Senate seats in 2008, and this was such a severe fight that a year later a Republican got elected in Massachusetts on a single-issue stop-universal-health-care campaign.  And we didn't fight hard enough?  We didn't sacrifice enough?

You finished?

I noticed you didn't even address my point at all. Not that it's out of the norm.

Did I miss something?  I thought your point was we can't trust anyone other than Sanders to deliver on universal health care, because the last time they tried it they gave us the ACA which you're labeling as Nixoncare.
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Tartarus Sauce
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« Reply #131 on: December 13, 2019, 01:13:07 AM »

Only General MacArthur could have made a thread about a legitimately troubling trend among many hardcore Bernie supporters that ended up having us mostly focus on the problems of OP himself.

An important reminder about how the messenger can matter as much as the message, a truism that obviously applies to more than just the OP.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #132 on: December 13, 2019, 01:25:46 AM »

Only General MacArthur could have made a thread about a legitimately troubling trend among many hardcore Bernie supporters that ended up having us mostly focus on the problems of OP himself.

An important reminder about how the messenger can matter as much as the message, a truism that obviously applies to more than just the OP.

It's MacArthur derangement syndrome.  Go look through the tone and effort level of the posts I've made in this thread, and compare it to the responses I've gotten and how I've been treated.

There's a handful of posters on this board who pop up every time I want to talk about legitimately troubling things I'm seeing from the Sanders campaign -- things that, if 2016 is anything to go by, could be a serious problem for Democrats -- and crash the thread to tell everyone what a horrible scumbag I am and how I'm just some madman consumed with hatred for Sanders.  And I can't even defend myself or try to get the thread back on track because the whole board just gangs up on me like you're doing.

I know it's fun to hate on someone.  Much more fun than civil discussion.  And it's rare for anyone to bother defending me, so my harassers get the benefit of social proof.  But this board would be better if y'all didn't just automatically treat me like crap.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #133 on: December 13, 2019, 01:28:41 AM »

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.

Were you alive in 2009?  Do you remember what a disaster health care was before then, and how close we came to having absolutely zero reform?

Like what did you want Obama to do?
Do you understand how many lives the ACA has saved?
Do you understand that even just passing the ACA was one of the biggest fights in American history and required devastating, crippling sacrifices from the Democratic Party that we're still reeling from ten years later?

Also, comparing any contemporary politics to Richard Nixon, or any pre-Reagan GOP politician, is silly.  The Republican party lurched extremely far to the right in the 80s and 90s.  Nixon and his policies would be laughed out of the party today.  Also remember that Nixon had to work with a solid D congress and his policies often reflect that.

It's very frustrating to me, as someone who followed the Obamacare debate extremely closely, to see all the gaslighting and lying going on these days.  Like this was one of the most difficult political fights ever and the Democrats sacrificed everything to win it by the skin of their teeth, and ten years later we have this whole movement of people saying the party is awful because we didn't fight hard enough and didn't pass a good enough plan.

I mean we had 60 Senate seats in 2008, and this was such a severe fight that a year later a Republican got elected in Massachusetts on a single-issue stop-universal-health-care campaign.  And we didn't fight hard enough?  We didn't sacrifice enough?

You finished?

I noticed you didn't even address my point at all. Not that it's out of the norm.

Did I miss something?  I thought your point was we can't trust anyone other than Sanders to deliver on universal health care, because the last time they tried it they gave us the ACA which you're labeling as Nixoncare.

Nah.

My point, if you bothered to read, was that Obamacare was a plan adopted from Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley and I asked you to remind me what partythey were from. Then you went on some sort of tirade that didn't even bother to deny it was  Republican plan.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #134 on: December 13, 2019, 01:39:26 AM »

And then said administration proceeded to use a plan orginally proposed by Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley.

Remind me what party those three belong to.

Were you alive in 2009?  Do you remember what a disaster health care was before then, and how close we came to having absolutely zero reform?

Like what did you want Obama to do?
Do you understand how many lives the ACA has saved?
Do you understand that even just passing the ACA was one of the biggest fights in American history and required devastating, crippling sacrifices from the Democratic Party that we're still reeling from ten years later?

Also, comparing any contemporary politics to Richard Nixon, or any pre-Reagan GOP politician, is silly.  The Republican party lurched extremely far to the right in the 80s and 90s.  Nixon and his policies would be laughed out of the party today.  Also remember that Nixon had to work with a solid D congress and his policies often reflect that.

It's very frustrating to me, as someone who followed the Obamacare debate extremely closely, to see all the gaslighting and lying going on these days.  Like this was one of the most difficult political fights ever and the Democrats sacrificed everything to win it by the skin of their teeth, and ten years later we have this whole movement of people saying the party is awful because we didn't fight hard enough and didn't pass a good enough plan.

I mean we had 60 Senate seats in 2008, and this was such a severe fight that a year later a Republican got elected in Massachusetts on a single-issue stop-universal-health-care campaign.  And we didn't fight hard enough?  We didn't sacrifice enough?

You finished?

I noticed you didn't even address my point at all. Not that it's out of the norm.

Did I miss something?  I thought your point was we can't trust anyone other than Sanders to deliver on universal health care, because the last time they tried it they gave us the ACA which you're labeling as Nixoncare.

Nah.

My point, if you bothered to read, was that Obamacare was a plan adopted from Nixon, Gingrich and Grassley and I asked you to remind me what partythey were from. Then you went on some sort of tirade that didn't even bother to deny it was  Republican plan.

Obamacare is a smorgasbord of ideas, many of which have been seen in other plans, others of which are original to the ACA.

Yes, it bears some resemblance to the plans proposed by Republicans in the 70s.
It also bears resemblance to Romneycare.
It also shares many common elements with HillaryCare and the health care plans pushed by the Carter white house.

I'm not denying that.  But I assumed you had a reason for bringing that up?
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #135 on: December 13, 2019, 02:01:17 AM »

Three pages in and still not a single Sanders supporter has condemned or otherwise said that he disagrees with what these jerks did at New York.
Depressing but predictable.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #136 on: December 13, 2019, 02:07:47 AM »

Three pages in and still not a single Sanders supporter has condemned or otherwise said that he disagrees with what these jerks did at New York.
Depressing but predictable.

Alright, fine.

The original subjects of the thread are certified assclowns.  So is General MacArthur (and his "woe is me" act in this thread doesn't change that).  And so was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Satisfied?
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #137 on: December 13, 2019, 02:23:37 AM »

Three pages in and still not a single Sanders supporter has condemned or otherwise said that he disagrees with what these jerks did at New York.
Depressing but predictable.

Alright, fine.

The original subjects of the thread are certified assclowns.  So is General MacArthur (and his "woe is me" act in this thread doesn't change that).  And so was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Satisfied?

What, if anything, would you recommend the Sanders campaign do to stop these kinds of incidents?

Why is it only the Sanders campaign that consistently exhibits this kind of behavior?

My recommendation would be to:
  • Publicly ask his supporters to STOP, and condemn this kind of behavior when it becomes a story.  I don't care how he does it.  Pick out some particularly egregious incident and turn it into a Sister Soulja thing.
  • Replace the belligerent Twitter trolls running his campaign (Sirota, Gray, Turner, etc.) with professional, respectable, well-behaved staff.  They don't have to be suits, they just have to not be assholes.
  • Try to make amends with the other candidates, and the low-paid hard-working staff at the DNC, the WFP, state Democratic parties, and other liberal organizations.  It is mostly low-level people and volunteers who have to deal with abuse from his campaign and supporters.
  • Stop using us-vs-them, everyone-except-me-is-corrupt language about the Democratic party.  This only encourages his supporters to see everyone else in the primary as an enemy and treat them just as badly as the Trump supporters do.
  • When conspiracy theories featuring Sanders or his campaign pop up on the radar, come out publicly and put the kibosh on them.  He's become a useful idiot for the Republicans and the Russians because when they use him to concoct conspiracy theories to divide our party, he plays along.

If Sanders did even, like, one of these things, my respect for him would double overnight.

If he did all five he might reach Warren-tier respect levels where I think she's a good person who just has bad policy ideas and some dumb populist tactics.

I don't think he will do any of this, though, because the truth is that these kinds of incidents are the bread and butter of the Sanders "movement" and this is a feature, not a bug, of the campaign.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #138 on: December 13, 2019, 03:01:53 AM »

Three pages in and still not a single Sanders supporter has condemned or otherwise said that he disagrees with what these jerks did at New York.
Depressing but predictable.

Alright, fine.

The original subjects of the thread are certified assclowns.  So is General MacArthur (and his "woe is me" act in this thread doesn't change that).  And so was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Satisfied?

What, if anything, would you recommend the Sanders campaign do to stop these kinds of incidents?

Why is it only the Sanders campaign that consistently exhibits this kind of behavior?

My recommendation would be to:
  • Publicly ask his supporters to STOP, and condemn this kind of behavior when it becomes a story.  I don't care how he does it.  Pick out some particularly egregious incident and turn it into a Sister Soulja thing.
  • Replace the belligerent Twitter trolls running his campaign (Sirota, Gray, Turner, etc.) with professional, respectable, well-behaved staff.  They don't have to be suits, they just have to not be assholes.
  • Try to make amends with the other candidates, and the low-paid hard-working staff at the DNC, the WFP, state Democratic parties, and other liberal organizations.  It is mostly low-level people and volunteers who have to deal with abuse from his campaign and supporters.
  • Stop using us-vs-them, everyone-except-me-is-corrupt language about the Democratic party.  This only encourages his supporters to see everyone else in the primary as an enemy and treat them just as badly as the Trump supporters do.
  • When conspiracy theories featuring Sanders or his campaign pop up on the radar, come out publicly and put the kibosh on them.  He's become a useful idiot for the Republicans and the Russians because when they use him to concoct conspiracy theories to divide our party, he plays along.

If Sanders did even, like, one of these things, my respect for him would double overnight.

If he did all five he might reach Warren-tier respect levels where I think she's a good person who just has bad policy ideas and some dumb populist tactics.

I don't think he will do any of this, though, because the truth is that these kinds of incidents are the bread and butter of the Sanders "movement" and this is a feature, not a bug, of the campaign.

I'm actually not opposed to any of those ideas.  Most of the reason I jumped on the Warren train early in the cycle is that I have more faith in her to surround herself with right-minded people and not let her campaign be overshadowed by bad-faith actors.  I get the impression that Sanders is not on the up-and-up on many of the people trying to co-opt his message, Cenk Uygur being a prime example.  That is much of why I've hesitated to support Sanders outright, although barring a surprise Warren comeback I may be resigned to voting for him if the race comes down to him and Biden.

Without defending the behavior of some of Bernie's more eccentric supporters, I do believe that these people, by and large, represent a vocal minority of his base.  If you want to argue that Sanders hasn't done enough to keep his supporters in line or refocus his message to the issues that brought him to the spotlight in 2016, fine.  He has not, to my knowledge, incited these types of stunts or encouraged his supporters to go after other campaigns with violence and hostility.  There is only one candidate in this election who has a history of doing exactly that, and that is the incumbent president.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #139 on: December 13, 2019, 03:32:55 AM »

Three pages in and still not a single Sanders supporter has condemned or otherwise said that he disagrees with what these jerks did at New York.
Depressing but predictable.

Alright, fine.

The original subjects of the thread are certified assclowns.  So is General MacArthur (and his "woe is me" act in this thread doesn't change that).  And so was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Satisfied?

What, if anything, would you recommend the Sanders campaign do to stop these kinds of incidents?

Why is it only the Sanders campaign that consistently exhibits this kind of behavior?

My recommendation would be to:
  • Publicly ask his supporters to STOP, and condemn this kind of behavior when it becomes a story.  I don't care how he does it.  Pick out some particularly egregious incident and turn it into a Sister Soulja thing.
  • Replace the belligerent Twitter trolls running his campaign (Sirota, Gray, Turner, etc.) with professional, respectable, well-behaved staff.  They don't have to be suits, they just have to not be assholes.
  • Try to make amends with the other candidates, and the low-paid hard-working staff at the DNC, the WFP, state Democratic parties, and other liberal organizations.  It is mostly low-level people and volunteers who have to deal with abuse from his campaign and supporters.
  • Stop using us-vs-them, everyone-except-me-is-corrupt language about the Democratic party.  This only encourages his supporters to see everyone else in the primary as an enemy and treat them just as badly as the Trump supporters do.
  • When conspiracy theories featuring Sanders or his campaign pop up on the radar, come out publicly and put the kibosh on them.  He's become a useful idiot for the Republicans and the Russians because when they use him to concoct conspiracy theories to divide our party, he plays along.

If Sanders did even, like, one of these things, my respect for him would double overnight.

If he did all five he might reach Warren-tier respect levels where I think she's a good person who just has bad policy ideas and some dumb populist tactics.

I don't think he will do any of this, though, because the truth is that these kinds of incidents are the bread and butter of the Sanders "movement" and this is a feature, not a bug, of the campaign.

I'm actually not opposed to any of those ideas.  Most of the reason I jumped on the Warren train early in the cycle is that I have more faith in her to surround herself with right-minded people and not let her campaign be overshadowed by bad-faith actors.  I get the impression that Sanders is not on the up-and-up on many of the people trying to co-opt his message, Cenk Uygur being a prime example.  That is much of why I've hesitated to support Sanders outright, although barring a surprise Warren comeback I may be resigned to voting for him if the race comes down to him and Biden.

Without defending the behavior of some of Bernie's more eccentric supporters, I do believe that these people, by and large, represent a vocal minority of his base.  If you want to argue that Sanders hasn't done enough to keep his supporters in line or refocus his message to the issues that brought him to the spotlight in 2016, fine.  He has not, to my knowledge, incited these types of stunts or encouraged his supporters to go after other campaigns with violence and hostility.  There is only one candidate in this election who has a history of doing exactly that, and that is the incumbent president.

There are a couple of things that lead me to draw a direct line between the Bernie Bros and Sanders personally.

A
The first is that, in the 2016 campaign, for those paying attention there was a pretty clear pipeline from the internet's mouth to Bernie's ears.  By that I mean that attacks would be originated in alt-left media, Twitter, Reddit, 4chan, and tried out, and the ones that gained traction would be echoed by Sanders.  Later on in the campaign when they turned to conspiracy theories about the DNC "rigging" the election, Sanders and his campaign staff would frequently echo their complaints.

For instance, I forget which primary it was, but Sanders lost it and the Bernie Bros on Twitter made up some claim that the DNC had been rigging it in one way or another.  There was no basis for this except some inflammatory made-up stuff, but there were Bernie and his staff going to the media and complaining about "irregularities" and "wanting the process to be fair."  I apologize for the vagueness but I'm too tired to remember the primary, maybe it was Arizona?

Anyway, we've seen this again in 2020, except it's more obvious because his 2020 campaign staff spends all day on Twitter.  So you can just directly observe them retweeting and interacting with the likes of Uygur, Kulinski, Sunkara, Greenwald, etc. as well as encouraging the Bros and echoing their attack lines.

In short, the complaint is that they can't claim ignorance of what their supporters are up to because they're not only monitoring the situation but implicitly encouraging them by echoing their home-brewed conspiracy theories and talking points, among other dogwhistles.


B
There were several incidents in 2016 where the Sanders campaign directly instigated this behavior.  For instance, here is a direct quote from the complaint issued by the Nevada State Democratic Party after the Sanders delegates rioted at their convention:

Quote
The Sanders Campaign spent its time either ignoring or profiting from the chaos it did much to create and nothing to diminish or mitigate. It was clear to the NSDP that part of the approach by the Sanders Campaign was to employ these easily-incensed delegates as shock troops to sway the convention proceedings. At the very least, these delegates became a way for the Sanders Campaign to seek the advantage of disruption at any particular moment while trying to disavow any responsibility for their actions even as it was ongoing. At no time did any Sanders representative make anything more than token gestures towards peace in the hall, and at the times of most intense crisis offered little more than shrugs and smirks.

The most egregious instance of the Sanders Campaign inciting disruption — and yes, violence — came as the State Convention’s Credentials Committee completed its work. Adam Gillette, part of National Delegate Operations Team for the official Sanders Campaign, drafted and arranged for a member of that committee to attempt to deliver an incendiary, inaccurate, and wholly unauthorized “minority report” charging that the Credentials Committee had fraudulently denied 64 Sanders delegates their eligibility. The final delegate count had provided the Clinton Campaign with a 33 delegate advantage in the hall; one can imagine the rage occasioned by this inflammatory charge, tossed into the tinderbox of a tense convention hall.
 

This hasn't been a thing in 2020 yet, but again, we haven't hit fever pitch yet.  In 2016 things didn't get truly out of hand until voting started.  I continue to see signs that we're headed down the exact same road.


C
At the DNC convention in 2016, the Sanders campaign was fully aware of the behavior of its supporters, and utilized the threat of riotous behavior as blackmail to try to extract concessions from the DNC.

So not only were they aware of the behavior, but they knew it was bad -- and took advantage of that to blackmail the DNC.  In the end the DNC gave Sanders what he wanted, but his supporters crashed the DNC anyway.  You literally couldn't hear half of the speeches because they were chanting their obnoxious slogans the entire team.  The Sanders campaign obviously knew this was happening, and didn't do a damn thing to stop it.


So in conclusion, the Sanders campaign is 100% aware that this kind of thing is happening, and I'm confident they are aware of how widespread it is (since they monitor alt-left-politics Twitter/media very closely) but they
at best, do nothing to prevent it
at worst, instigate and inflame it

It's a pattern I witnessed over and over and over again in 2016, and to a lesser extent in 2017-2019 (as Sanders continued to encourage hostility towards the party), and I'm now sitting here observing the same pattern going into 2020 and wondering, are we really going to let this happen again?  Fool me once, shame on you...
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #140 on: December 13, 2019, 04:06:11 AM »

Sanders wants to have it both ways with his more ...enthusiastic supporters.
On one hand he uses them as proof that he is the only one who excites the base and can bring a revolution that will wash out the "evil" establishment.
On the other hand, every time they engage in thuggish behavior he washes his hands and declares that he can't control them.
It's a nifty trick, if you can get away with it.
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Hollywood
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« Reply #141 on: December 13, 2019, 04:37:46 AM »

When is Pete Buttigieg going to apologize for distributing for forging electronic signatures of prominent black leaders to defraud into donating funds to his Campaign?

Exactly.  He’s a criminal.  A criminal.  Some of you Dems on this thread are backing a criminal. Your encouraging a criminal, and you should apologize for facilitating his crimes.  That’s called guilt by association.  That’s what your doing. 

Bernie Sanders is obviously not responsible for a supporter who goes out on his own volition to commit a crime or bad act when such act has not been directly advocated or endorsed by the candidate.  Also, we don’t have any evidence of it ever happening the way the liars in the Buttigieg campaign claim it happened..  For all we know, it could have been an open event, and they asked those people to leave for merely exercising their First Amendment Right to protest.  There’s no audio to the video for context, and the word of man that works for a campaign with a track record of lying. 

He’s just blaming Bernie the Jew for the Reichstag fire cause a Nazi working for Buttigieg, who is gay Hitler in my inane analogy.   

Shameful.
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Hollywood
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« Reply #142 on: December 13, 2019, 04:54:34 AM »

Sanders wants to have it both ways with his more ...enthusiastic supporters.
On one hand he uses them as proof that he is the only one who excites the base and can bring a revolution that will wash out the "evil" establishment.
On the other hand, every time they engage in thuggish behavior he washes his hands and declares that he can't control them.
It's a nifty trick, if you can get away with it.

Oh I have one.

Yeah and anytime a Democrat doxxed a critic, journalist, and even child with beliefs they advocate for demonizing them as inhumane, they benefit from the act by shutting down opposing views, and then they wipe their hands of it.  Some of them even openly advocate for the doxxing of Republican supporters and donors, and dozens of their employees commit the criminal act.  Yet they've never taken any responsibility.  It's a nifty trick.

Another one.  Antifa shuts down political events with violence and fear, because they are inspired by the violent rhetoric of the Democrat party. They benefit from keeping conservatives from advocating on college campuses, and shutting down speech they don't appreciate.  They never have to apologize.   It's a nifty trick. 

Just shut up.  It's the same tired BS we see from establishment Democrats.

This thread is just more gaslighting from people that hate Bernie, and want to help Gay Hitler cause they feel bad about him not having any black friends.  What does gay Hitler expect? 
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MAGA Maggie's Masshole Mob
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« Reply #143 on: December 13, 2019, 08:29:50 AM »

weeeeeeeeeeeeew
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North Carolina Conservative
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« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2019, 09:38:08 PM »

This is eerily similar to the type of crap Trump supporters said after Charlottesville.
“Oh not all Sanders supporters...”
“Oh I don’t have to condemn that because it doesn’t apply to me...”
“But (insert name here)”

Enough is enough.
If a Buttigieg supporter did this at a Sanders event, people would be calling for blood (figuratively)

The thing you're missing is that Trump actually supports an ideology that logically calls for violence and bigotry. Sanders does not. Obviously people doing bad things in the name of Sanders or Trump are both bad--f*ing duh--but the difference is in ideology. But I guess the centrists on here don't understand "ideology" and the context that causes.

But if people want to carry on with some idiotic "horseshoe theory" narrative, sure, I can't stop you, it's a free country! (That is, unless the fascist right wins more power due to not being stopped by a left-wing movement looking for meaningful change. Hopefully not! Smiley )

When has Trump ever called for a "revolution"?
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #145 on: December 15, 2019, 10:48:05 PM »


Bruh.
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Galeel
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« Reply #146 on: December 15, 2019, 11:08:43 PM »

Bernie, Biden, Pete, and Warren would all be pretty much the same as president. Everyone getting this worked up over the primary are completely losing sight of the only thing that matters, beating Trump.
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Forumlurker
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« Reply #147 on: December 16, 2019, 01:04:36 AM »

From someone who has been on here for just a few months, that is exactly what it looks like.
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Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« Reply #148 on: December 16, 2019, 01:38:29 AM »

Same type of person as this...

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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #149 on: December 16, 2019, 02:01:11 AM »

Same type of person as this...



He seems nice.
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