NH Saint anselm: Buttigieg +10

[izixs]

What the hell are people seeing in him? We deserve to lose if we nominate him

The more I see him the more I realize he's of the same overall vibe of someone like Sen. Grassley. A lot of golly gee I'm a home town American boy styling with questionable substance under the hood.

As for the college percent there, almost half the state has a college degree, so having a high level for Dem primary voters does kind of make sense. Though it might be a little high even then.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Buttigieg is a Vet and has natl security experience like Biden does. WC males like Buttigieg as well as Biden as we see Warren and Sanders fade, due to being socialistic

[izixs]

Buttigieg is a Vet and has natl security experience like Biden does. WC males like Buttigieg as well as Biden as we see Warren and Sanders fade, due to being socialistic

But what -is- national security experience? I've seen people claim it is all sorts of things. In this case being a soldier. In other cases it means being some sort of diplomat who worked on terrorism issues. Or being a general who oversaw such and such operations. Or having served on the foreign relations committee in congress. Heck, I've seen someone say having a big business means you have this experience, somehow.

But these diverge quite a bit in terms of their connection to actual foreign policy and national security decision making. Heck, I could claim I have as much or more national security experience than a good number of politicians from my work experience alone. And I'm none of these things I or you have listed.

So again, what exactly does it mean for someone to have actual national security experience? What is the standard, the metric for which one can declare this to be true of someone but not another?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The only problem for Buttigieg is that there is no bounce for him, like in other yrs, when Iowa was Jan 3rd, Super Tuesday early vote will be happening the same day Iowa caucus, Cali and Southern Primariesare favored towards Biden; as a result, Buttigieg will get a dead cat bounce from wins in IA and NH.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

What the hell are people seeing in him? We deserve to lose if we nominate him

I don't get why people like Buttigieg beyond surface-level reasons. He's a panderer with no principles but can string together sentences nicely. He's basically the successful version of what Beto was. Particularly now, I don't see why he's surging in Iowa, was it the debate or is it just ground game late effect? Everybody campaigns in Iowa and this race has otherwise been very stable so it's quite puzzling to me.

The thing is that Mayor Pete's not just an empty suit, he's the real deal.  Also, while he's had some good debates before (and not a single bad one thus far), he basically took all comers to the woodshed (including Warren, he absolutely wiped the floor with her during their exchanges on healthcare) during the last debate.  He was the clear winner by a country mile and he's got the best temperament, debating skills, the most charisma, understanding of public policy (well, that one may be a tie with Warren), and has been more effective at communicating a brighter vision for the future than anyone else running.  He's also clearly one of the smartest guys in the race; I mean, the man has a truly remarkable grasp of the issues whatever one thinks of him.  

Frankly, for a self-declared ideas candidate, I think Warren has been very dishonest - and I say that as someone who generally really likes her - about healthcare, certainly far more so than Buttigieg.  Every time someone asks her how she's gonna pay for it, she obfuscates and dissembles like a middle schooler caught in a lie.  And she still can't answer Buttigieg's question about why she opposes a Medicare for all who want it approach.  And speaking as someone who'd choose to stay on private insurance despite supporting the creation of a public option available to all Americans, that's a question I want answered.  I think everyone is entitled to basic healthcare at the very least, but I also like my current healthcare just fine, thank you very much, and I don't want some Senator with an ideological axe to grind taking it away from me.

Is Buttigieg being honest about everything?  I'm sure he's not, but he's no worse than anyone except Sanders in that respect (Sanders, it must be said, is at least being significantly more honest about healthcare than Warren).  What folks on Atlas have to remember is that Atlas mainstream is still well to the left of the Democratic primary electorate.  There's still a significant market for a reliably liberal/progressive/whatever candidate who is 1) not a socialist, 2) not in their 70s, and 3) generally comes across as being pretty reasonable.

TL;DR: Buttigieg's like a liberal version of what Reagan did in 1980 with Morning in America and there are many Americans - myself among them - who think that sounds pretty d*** good after the anarchy of the Trump administration.  You may or may not like it and folks supporting other candidates clearly don't like it, but many people consider that a compelling vision for the future and not because we're stupid, but because we have a different assessment of him than you do.  You look at him and see a phony panderer.  Fair enough.  But Buttigieg supporters look at him and see a guy who talks like a preacher because he goes to church every Sunday, if you see what I mean.  Unlike Beto, Mayor Pete is the real deal; the substance is there as much as it is with any other serious candidate in the race.

[SN2903]

What the hell are people seeing in him? We deserve to lose if we nominate him

I don't get why people like Buttigieg beyond surface-level reasons. He's a panderer with no principles but can string together sentences nicely. He's basically the successful version of what Beto was. Particularly now, I don't see why he's surging in Iowa, was it the debate or is it just ground game late effect? Everybody campaigns in Iowa and this race has otherwise been very stable so it's quite puzzling to me.

The thing is that Mayor Pete's not just an empty suit, he's the real deal.  Also, while he's had some good debates before (and not a single bad one thus far), he basically took all comers to the woodshed (including Warren, he absolutely wiped the floor with her during their exchanges on healthcare) during the last debate.  He was the clear winner by a country mile and he's got the best temperament, debating skills, the most charisma, understanding of public policy (well, that one may be a tie with Warren), and has been more effective at communicating a brighter vision for the future than anyone else running.  He's also clearly one of the smartest guys in the race; I mean, the man has a truly remarkable grasp of the issues whatever one thinks of him.  

Frankly, for a self-declared ideas candidate, I think Warren has been very dishonest - and I say that as someone who generally really likes her - about healthcare, certainly far more so than Buttigieg.  Every time someone asks her how she's gonna pay for it, she obfuscates and dissembles like a middle schooler caught in a lie.  And she still can't answer Buttigieg's question about why she opposes a Medicare for all who want it approach.  And speaking as someone who'd choose to stay on private insurance despite supporting the creation of a public option available to all Americans, that's a question I want answered.  I think everyone is entitled to basic healthcare at the very least, but I also like my current healthcare just fine, thank you very much, and I don't want some Senator with an ideological axe to grind taking it away from me.

Is Buttigieg being honest about everything?  I'm sure he's not, but he's no worse than anyone except Sanders in that respect (Sanders, it must be said, is at least being significantly more honest about healthcare than Warren).  What folks on Atlas have to remember is that Atlas mainstream is still well to the left of the Democratic primary electorate.  There's still a significant market for a reliably liberal/progressive/whatever candidate who is 1) not a socialist, 2) not in their 70s, and 3) generally comes across as being pretty reasonable.

TL;DR: Buttigieg's like a liberal version of what Reagan did in 1980 with Morning in America and there are many Americans - myself among them - who think that sounds pretty d*** good after the anarchy of the Trump administration.  You may or may not like it and folks supporting other candidates clearly don't like it, but many people consider that a compelling vision for the future and not because we're stupid, but because we have a different assessment of him than you do.  You look at him and see a phony panderer.  Fair enough.  But Buttigieg supporters look at him and see a guy who talks like a preacher because he goes to church every Sunday, if you see what I mean.  Unlike Beto, Mayor Pete is the real deal; the substance is there as much as it is with any other serious candidate in the race.

Are you serious? Trump would beat Pete by 5-6 pts easily in general election. Pete can't turn out the minority vote and he comes across as too smug.

[eric82oslo]

the most charisma

It's funny, cause he literally has absolute zero charisma. Unless you consider having a deep voice as enough to be labelled having charisma? And being young and pretty, do you count that as having charisma as well? And speaking seven languages, is that another one of your criterias?

Charisma is a Greek word which means "gift of grace". In Christian theology, the term means an extraordinary power given by the Holy Spirit. Pete has neither any extraordinary power, nor does he have any gift of grace. He quite literally has next to zero charisma.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

If Pete does indeed win IA and NH, he does Biden a big favor in knocking out Warren

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

What the hell are people seeing in him? We deserve to lose if we nominate him

I don't get why people like Buttigieg beyond surface-level reasons. He's a panderer with no principles but can string together sentences nicely. He's basically the successful version of what Beto was. Particularly now, I don't see why he's surging in Iowa, was it the debate or is it just ground game late effect? Everybody campaigns in Iowa and this race has otherwise been very stable so it's quite puzzling to me.

The thing is that Mayor Pete's not just an empty suit, he's the real deal.  Also, while he's had some good debates before (and not a single bad one thus far), he basically took all comers to the woodshed (including Warren, he absolutely wiped the floor with her during their exchanges on healthcare) during the last debate.  He was the clear winner by a country mile and he's got the best temperament, debating skills, the most charisma, understanding of public policy (well, that one may be a tie with Warren), and has been more effective at communicating a brighter vision for the future than anyone else running.  He's also clearly one of the smartest guys in the race; I mean, the man has a truly remarkable grasp of the issues whatever one thinks of him.  

Frankly, for a self-declared ideas candidate, I think Warren has been very dishonest - and I say that as someone who generally really likes her - about healthcare, certainly far more so than Buttigieg.  Every time someone asks her how she's gonna pay for it, she obfuscates and dissembles like a middle schooler caught in a lie.  And she still can't answer Buttigieg's question about why she opposes a Medicare for all who want it approach.  And speaking as someone who'd choose to stay on private insurance despite supporting the creation of a public option available to all Americans, that's a question I want answered.  I think everyone is entitled to basic healthcare at the very least, but I also like my current healthcare just fine, thank you very much, and I don't want some Senator with an ideological axe to grind taking it away from me.

Is Buttigieg being honest about everything?  I'm sure he's not, but he's no worse than anyone except Sanders in that respect (Sanders, it must be said, is at least being significantly more honest about healthcare than Warren).  What folks on Atlas have to remember is that Atlas mainstream is still well to the left of the Democratic primary electorate.  There's still a significant market for a reliably liberal/progressive/whatever candidate who is 1) not a socialist, 2) not in their 70s, and 3) generally comes across as being pretty reasonable.

TL;DR: Buttigieg's like a liberal version of what Reagan did in 1980 with Morning in America and there are many Americans - myself among them - who think that sounds pretty d*** good after the anarchy of the Trump administration.  You may or may not like it and folks supporting other candidates clearly don't like it, but many people consider that a compelling vision for the future and not because we're stupid, but because we have a different assessment of him than you do.  You look at him and see a phony panderer.  Fair enough.  But Buttigieg supporters look at him and see a guy who talks like a preacher because he goes to church every Sunday, if you see what I mean.  Unlike Beto, Mayor Pete is the real deal; the substance is there as much as it is with any other serious candidate in the race.

Are you serious? Trump would beat Pete by 5-6 pts easily in general election. Pete can't turn out the minority vote and he comes across as too smug.

I think I'll pass on GE predictions from a Republican who thinks the Democrats should nominate a Trumpist DINO like Tulsi Gabbard, thanks   Anyway, Pete's the most electable Democrat running by a country mile.

the most charisma

It's funny, cause he literally has absolute zero charisma. Unless you consider having a deep voice as enough to be labelled having charisma? And being young and pretty, do you count that as having charisma as well? And speaking seven languages, is that another one of your criterias?

Charisma is a Greek word which means "gift of grace". In Christian theology, the term means an extraordinary power given by the Holy Spirit. Pete has neither any extraordinary power, nor does he have any gift of grace. He quite literally has next to zero charisma.

Says the guy who supports Andrew Yang

[SN2903]

What the hell are people seeing in him? We deserve to lose if we nominate him

I don't get why people like Buttigieg beyond surface-level reasons. He's a panderer with no principles but can string together sentences nicely. He's basically the successful version of what Beto was. Particularly now, I don't see why he's surging in Iowa, was it the debate or is it just ground game late effect? Everybody campaigns in Iowa and this race has otherwise been very stable so it's quite puzzling to me.

The thing is that Mayor Pete's not just an empty suit, he's the real deal.  Also, while he's had some good debates before (and not a single bad one thus far), he basically took all comers to the woodshed (including Warren, he absolutely wiped the floor with her during their exchanges on healthcare) during the last debate.  He was the clear winner by a country mile and he's got the best temperament, debating skills, the most charisma, understanding of public policy (well, that one may be a tie with Warren), and has been more effective at communicating a brighter vision for the future than anyone else running.  He's also clearly one of the smartest guys in the race; I mean, the man has a truly remarkable grasp of the issues whatever one thinks of him.  

Frankly, for a self-declared ideas candidate, I think Warren has been very dishonest - and I say that as someone who generally really likes her - about healthcare, certainly far more so than Buttigieg.  Every time someone asks her how she's gonna pay for it, she obfuscates and dissembles like a middle schooler caught in a lie.  And she still can't answer Buttigieg's question about why she opposes a Medicare for all who want it approach.  And speaking as someone who'd choose to stay on private insurance despite supporting the creation of a public option available to all Americans, that's a question I want answered.  I think everyone is entitled to basic healthcare at the very least, but I also like my current healthcare just fine, thank you very much, and I don't want some Senator with an ideological axe to grind taking it away from me.

Is Buttigieg being honest about everything?  I'm sure he's not, but he's no worse than anyone except Sanders in that respect (Sanders, it must be said, is at least being significantly more honest about healthcare than Warren).  What folks on Atlas have to remember is that Atlas mainstream is still well to the left of the Democratic primary electorate.  There's still a significant market for a reliably liberal/progressive/whatever candidate who is 1) not a socialist, 2) not in their 70s, and 3) generally comes across as being pretty reasonable.

TL;DR: Buttigieg's like a liberal version of what Reagan did in 1980 with Morning in America and there are many Americans - myself among them - who think that sounds pretty d*** good after the anarchy of the Trump administration.  You may or may not like it and folks supporting other candidates clearly don't like it, but many people consider that a compelling vision for the future and not because we're stupid, but because we have a different assessment of him than you do.  You look at him and see a phony panderer.  Fair enough.  But Buttigieg supporters look at him and see a guy who talks like a preacher because he goes to church every Sunday, if you see what I mean.  Unlike Beto, Mayor Pete is the real deal; the substance is there as much as it is with any other serious candidate in the race.

Are you serious? Trump would beat Pete by 5-6 pts easily in general election. Pete can't turn out the minority vote and he comes across as too smug.

I think I'll pass on GE predictions from a Republican who thinks the Democrats should nominate a Trumpist DINO like Tulsi Gabbard, thanks   Anyway, Pete's the most electable Democrat running by a country mile.

the most charisma

It's funny, cause he literally has absolute zero charisma. Unless you consider having a deep voice as enough to be labelled having charisma? And being young and pretty, do you count that as having charisma as well? And speaking seven languages, is that another one of your criterias?

Charisma is a Greek word which means "gift of grace". In Christian theology, the term means an extraordinary power given by the Holy Spirit. Pete has neither any extraordinary power, nor does he have any gift of grace. He quite literally has next to zero charisma.

Says the guy who supports Andrew Yang

Pete is not the most electable. Biden is their best candidate but he is also very flawed.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

What the hell are people seeing in him? We deserve to lose if we nominate him

I don't get why people like Buttigieg beyond surface-level reasons. He's a panderer with no principles but can string together sentences nicely. He's basically the successful version of what Beto was. Particularly now, I don't see why he's surging in Iowa, was it the debate or is it just ground game late effect? Everybody campaigns in Iowa and this race has otherwise been very stable so it's quite puzzling to me.

The thing is that Mayor Pete's not just an empty suit, he's the real deal.  Also, while he's had some good debates before (and not a single bad one thus far), he basically took all comers to the woodshed (including Warren, he absolutely wiped the floor with her during their exchanges on healthcare) during the last debate.  He was the clear winner by a country mile and he's got the best temperament, debating skills, the most charisma, understanding of public policy (well, that one may be a tie with Warren), and has been more effective at communicating a brighter vision for the future than anyone else running.  He's also clearly one of the smartest guys in the race; I mean, the man has a truly remarkable grasp of the issues whatever one thinks of him.  

Frankly, for a self-declared ideas candidate, I think Warren has been very dishonest - and I say that as someone who generally really likes her - about healthcare, certainly far more so than Buttigieg.  Every time someone asks her how she's gonna pay for it, she obfuscates and dissembles like a middle schooler caught in a lie.  And she still can't answer Buttigieg's question about why she opposes a Medicare for all who want it approach.  And speaking as someone who'd choose to stay on private insurance despite supporting the creation of a public option available to all Americans, that's a question I want answered.  I think everyone is entitled to basic healthcare at the very least, but I also like my current healthcare just fine, thank you very much, and I don't want some Senator with an ideological axe to grind taking it away from me.

Is Buttigieg being honest about everything?  I'm sure he's not, but he's no worse than anyone except Sanders in that respect (Sanders, it must be said, is at least being significantly more honest about healthcare than Warren).  What folks on Atlas have to remember is that Atlas mainstream is still well to the left of the Democratic primary electorate.  There's still a significant market for a reliably liberal/progressive/whatever candidate who is 1) not a socialist, 2) not in their 70s, and 3) generally comes across as being pretty reasonable.

TL;DR: Buttigieg's like a liberal version of what Reagan did in 1980 with Morning in America and there are many Americans - myself among them - who think that sounds pretty d*** good after the anarchy of the Trump administration.  You may or may not like it and folks supporting other candidates clearly don't like it, but many people consider that a compelling vision for the future and not because we're stupid, but because we have a different assessment of him than you do.  You look at him and see a phony panderer.  Fair enough.  But Buttigieg supporters look at him and see a guy who talks like a preacher because he goes to church every Sunday, if you see what I mean.  Unlike Beto, Mayor Pete is the real deal; the substance is there as much as it is with any other serious candidate in the race.

Are you serious? Trump would beat Pete by 5-6 pts easily in general election. Pete can't turn out the minority vote and he comes across as too smug.

I think I'll pass on GE predictions from a Republican who thinks the Democrats should nominate a Trumpist DINO like Tulsi Gabbard, thanks  Anyway, Pete's the most electable Democrat running by a country mile.

the most charisma

It's funny, cause he literally has absolute zero charisma. Unless you consider having a deep voice as enough to be labelled having charisma? And being young and pretty, do you count that as having charisma as well? And speaking seven languages, is that another one of your criterias?

Charisma is a Greek word which means "gift of grace". In Christian theology, the term means an extraordinary power given by the Holy Spirit. Pete has neither any extraordinary power, nor does he have any gift of grace. He quite literally has next to zero charisma.

Says the guy who supports Andrew Yang

Pete is not the most electable. Biden is their best candidate but he is also very flawed.

Pete and Warren are both light years more electable than Biden.  Trump would probably beat Biden.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I doubt that Pete gets a big bump, Southern primaries are exactly 4 weeks away from IA and NH. CALI, NV, and SC Biden have substantial leads. Both Warren and Buttigieg have both proved they are electable, but endorsements matter and Superdelegates is where Super Tuesday primaries are at. In Cali primary I still will go with Biden unless Warren or Buttigieg wins in both NV and SC at the end of Feb, to compensate for being overwhelmed on 3/3,😎

Biden has lead in 70 polls against Trunp, I doubt Trump beats Biden unless you are SN and still thinks Shaheen will lose to Lewindowsky in NH and give Trump NH

[eric82oslo]

Says the guy who supports Andrew Yang

At least Yang has a gazillion ton of charisma, unlike Pete.

[NOVA Green]

So.... although I find it extremely unlikely that Mayor Pete is leading by this much in NH, or even leading in NH at all, I do buy the concept that Pete is eating into the the support for other Democratic Candidates among White College and Graduate Students in a handful of early DEM voting states (IA & NH) especially, as well as to a slightly lesser extent at the National Level.

Still, these numbers appear a bit sketch considering I find it hard to believe that there will be nowhere near as high a % of Students with a 4+ Year degree as is currently represented within this poll.

NH gets tricky however since registered Indies can vote either side, and it is entirely plausible that Mayor Pete might get a significant boost from "Moderate Republican" leaning Indies in the '20 DEM Primary...

Pete's wildcard pathway in NH would definitely appear to be to appeal to 'Pub leaning voters in NH that aren't big fans of DJT, combined with what *appears* to be a significant base of Dems and Dem Leaner Millennial / College Voters that are looking for something different.

[Eraserhead]

Absolute trash.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Says the guy who supports Andrew Yang

At least Yang has a gazillion ton of charisma, unlike Pete.

[Shadows]

Fake poll. 250 odd Sample Size. 40% have a doctoral degree, 70% have attended college & huge over-sampling of older voters. Did people even see the cross-tabs? This is just a crap & fake poll.

[Skye]

Come on guys, at the very least take the poll with a grain of salt considering its composition.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Come on guys, at the very least take the poll with a grain of salt considering its composition.

I agree, but it should still go in the average since we’ve typically included even possible outliers.

[Vern]

Obviously if you don’t support or attack Mayor Pete you are really Homophobic!!!