Why the Hawley hype?

[UkrainianRepublican]

I'd  say simply. If Hawley manages to get nomination and his brand of populism takes over GOP, I will probably stop recognizing  myself as Republican. For me it's  economics or bust. I don't  think that surrendering economical issues for social is a viable path to go forward.

Although I am a foreigner, so, my word isn't  that much of say in this debate.

[UkrainianRepublican]

I'd  say simply. If Hawley manages to get nomination and his brand of populism takes over GOP, I will probably stop recognizing  myself as Republican. For me it's  economics or bust. I don't  think that surrendering economical issues for social is a viable path to go forward.

Although I am a foreigner, so, my word isn't  that much of say in this debate.

I understand your point of view (I was a libertarian from 2012-16 and a classical liberal up till a year ago), but to the point that NC Yankee has been saying this entire thread- The GOP has no path forward if it clings to tea-party supply side doctrine, as so many educated, suburban middle and upper middle class voters have left the GOP*  (most of whom aren't coming back) The GOP has to adopt more pro-worker stances to have a chance of building a coalition that can actually win elections and win over new voters who would otherwise refuse to vote for "the wall-st party" (which is a very silly narrative, but lots of people still believe it).

You don't have to go into hardcore Hawley-Tucker territory.  But the party has to move in that direction (which Trump mostly failed to do) in order to construct a winning coalition.


*Many nevertrumper republicans like to infer that Trump is 100% responsible for this trend and that until 2017 the GOP had rock-solid Suburban support.  Although Trump certainly accelerated this trend and deserves much of the blame, the trend has been happening since at least Obama's first term and can probably be traced back to the last days of the Bush era, in no small part due to social issues, the drug war, and the wars in the middle east.  The GOP didn't get the message after Obama won in 2008, and the 2012 autopsy failed to reign in the neoconservative foreign policy. 

Then, I guess, I am going to surely leave my sympathies to GOP aside. I simply don't want to be a part of party cruicial part of which consists of WWC and Blue Collars. I just can't bear those people for their social and economic stances. Being myself from upper-middle class family by standards of my country and a freshman college student who plans to live in suburb and being middle-class like my parents, I just сan't reach out to them. It's above me. Me and some miner HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO JOINT INTERESTS. And that's not changing.

If I ever end up in USA I will be voting for Libertarian Party. Sadly neoconservativism and Reaganism are dying  and I won't find a place for me in both parties in a decade or even less

[UkrainianRepublican]

Then, I guess, I am going to surely leave my sympathies to GOP aside. I simply don't want to be a part of party cruicial part of which consists of WWC and Blue Collars. I just despise those people for their social and economic stances. Being myself from upper-middle class family by standards of my country and a freshman college student who plans to live in suburb and being middle-class like my parents, I just don't want reach out to them. It's above me. Me and some miner HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO JOINT INTERESTS. And that's not changing.

If I ever end up in USA I will be voting for Libertarian Party. Sadly neoconservativism and Reaganism are dying  and I won't find a place for me in both parties in a decade or even less

Why, though?  I mean, it doesn't bother me if you feel that way, but that's not a wise stance for any political party to make.  The US isn't like most of Europe which has several smaller parties with narrow, even niche coalitions.  The GOP has to work within the confines of the 2 party system.

Also, it would be a brazen mis-characterization to assume that the vast majority of 4 year degree voters are staunch supply siders and budget hawks.  The keynesian neo-liberalism that is the establishment norm (which most of these voters and the majority of the country supports) is not some right-wing view.  They probably heavily supported Reaganomics in 1985, and maybe even 1995, but the economics of Sowell/Friedman/Rothbard (which I've read alot in 2013-2015) are a minority position in the US, and has been for some period of time.

Just it hurts me to realise that in 10-year time  people with views like me (I am looking at you, OSR and Mark Meadows) will be a minority that won't have any political representation.
And nothing can be done to stop this tide at all this time. Reagan Revolution era in Conservativism unfortunately nears it's end.

Well, I guess Libertarian Party would be cracking around 6-8%  by 2036.  

[UkrainianRepublican]

Just it hurts me to realise that in 10-year time  people with views like me (I am looking at you, OSR and Mark Meadows) will be a minority that won't have any political representation.
And nothing can be done to stop this tide at all this time. Reagan Revolution era in Conservativism unfortunately nears it's end.

Well, I guess Libertarian Party would be cracking around 6-8%  by 2036.  

I know that feeling.  I was PO'ed for a long time at the GOP from around 2012-2015 for failing to follow Rand Paul's path in taking Tea Party conservatism, and taking a stance against the Bush/Obama surveillance state, the war on drugs, and the Bush/Obama interventionist foreign policy.  That could have turned the GOP post-Bush into a real juggernaut, what the hell were they thinking?  FTR, I voted Johnson in both 2016 and 2012 (I had only turned 18 7 months before that election.
[/quote]

How tables have turned..... Ironically,  I am a neocon.

[UkrainianRepublican]

I'd  say simply. If Hawley manages to get nomination and his brand of populism takes over GOP, I will probably stop recognizing  myself as Republican. For me it's  economics or bust. I don't  think that surrendering economical issues for social is a viable path to go forward.

Although I am a foreigner, so, my word isn't  that much of say in this debate.

I understand your point of view (I was a libertarian from 2012-16 and a classical liberal up till a year ago), but to the point that NC Yankee has been saying this entire thread- The GOP has no path forward if it clings to tea-party supply side doctrine, as so many educated, suburban middle and upper middle class voters have left the GOP*  (most of whom aren't coming back) The GOP has to adopt more pro-worker stances to have a chance of building a coalition that can actually win elections and win over new voters who would otherwise refuse to vote for "the wall-st party" (which is a very silly narrative, but lots of people still believe it).

You don't have to go into hardcore Hawley-Tucker territory.  But the party has to move in that direction (which Trump mostly failed to do) in order to construct a winning coalition.


*Many nevertrumper republicans like to infer that Trump is 100% responsible for this trend and that until 2017 the GOP had rock-solid Suburban support.  Although Trump certainly accelerated this trend and deserves much of the blame, the trend has been happening since at least Obama's first term and can probably be traced back to the last days of the Bush era, in no small part due to social issues, the drug war, and the wars in the middle east.  The GOP didn't get the message after Obama won in 2008, and the 2012 autopsy failed to reign in the neoconservative foreign policy. 

Then, I guess, I am going to surely leave my sympathies to GOP aside. I simply don't want to be a part of party cruicial part of which consists of WWC and Blue Collars. I just can't bear those people for their social and economic stances. Being myself from upper-middle class family by standards of my country and a freshman college student who plans to live in suburb and being middle-class like my parents, I just сan't reach out to them. It's above me. Me and some miner HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO JOINT INTERESTS. And that's not changing.

If I ever end up in USA I will be voting for Libertarian Party. Sadly neoconservativism and Reaganism are dying  and I won't find a place for me in both parties in a decade or even less

Well, you can think what you will, but you really sound like a dick. Sorry.
Ironically, in that post you embody one stereotype about Republicans (snob out-of-touch elite who only cares about shrinking the government and not about other people) while reciting another stereotype about Republicans (ignorant hick redneck).

I prefer to be elitist than a redneck.

[UkrainianRepublican]

I'd  say simply. If Hawley manages to get nomination and his brand of populism takes over GOP, I will probably stop recognizing  myself as Republican. For me it's  economics or bust. I don't  think that surrendering economical issues for social is a viable path to go forward.

Although I am a foreigner, so, my word isn't  that much of say in this debate.

I understand your point of view (I was a libertarian from 2012-16 and a classical liberal up till a year ago), but to the point that NC Yankee has been saying this entire thread- The GOP has no path forward if it clings to tea-party supply side doctrine, as so many educated, suburban middle and upper middle class voters have left the GOP*  (most of whom aren't coming back) The GOP has to adopt more pro-worker stances to have a chance of building a coalition that can actually win elections and win over new voters who would otherwise refuse to vote for "the wall-st party" (which is a very silly narrative, but lots of people still believe it).

You don't have to go into hardcore Hawley-Tucker territory.  But the party has to move in that direction (which Trump mostly failed to do) in order to construct a winning coalition.


*Many nevertrumper republicans like to infer that Trump is 100% responsible for this trend and that until 2017 the GOP had rock-solid Suburban support.  Although Trump certainly accelerated this trend and deserves much of the blame, the trend has been happening since at least Obama's first term and can probably be traced back to the last days of the Bush era, in no small part due to social issues, the drug war, and the wars in the middle east.  The GOP didn't get the message after Obama won in 2008, and the 2012 autopsy failed to reign in the neoconservative foreign policy. 

Then, I guess, I am going to surely leave my sympathies to GOP aside. I simply don't want to be a part of party cruicial part of which consists of WWC and Blue Collars. I just can't bear those people for their social and economic stances. Being myself from upper-middle class family by standards of my country and a freshman college student who plans to live in suburb and being middle-class like my parents, I just сan't reach out to them. It's above me. Me and some miner HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO JOINT INTERESTS. And that's not changing.

If I ever end up in USA I will be voting for Libertarian Party. Sadly neoconservativism and Reaganism are dying  and I won't find a place for me in both parties in a decade or even less

Well, you can think what you will, but you really sound like a dick. Sorry.
Ironically, in that post you embody one stereotype about Republicans (snob out-of-touch elite who only cares about shrinking the government and not about other people) while reciting another stereotype about Republicans (ignorant hick redneck).

I prefer to be elitist than a redneck.

Fine.
Out of curiosity, would you associate yourself with the Democratic Party if it pulled a Macron and became seriously economically moderate?

If it If it became moderate on economics and stopped rising of Justice Dems, then probably I would sometimes  associate myself with it. Think about Bill Clinton economics and social stances slightly adjusted to 2020.