How Partisan is Atlas?

[Tartarus Sauce]

It was definitely an iffy judgement call determining what criteria to use to determine what I considered a "partisan post," and I'm not really sure I even stuck to a consistent standard, but out of my last five pages of posts, I counted 19 posts that were "left-wing," 6 that were "right wing," and 100 that were neutral.

[John Dule]

I suppose the question here is what we're actually trying to measure.

If we're measuring pure ideology, then a post like "I hate Joe Biden because he's too far to the right for my taste" would be considered left-wing, because it's a critique coming from the left.

However, if we're measuring how polarized the forum is (which was my original intention), then a post from a Democrat saying "I hate Joe Biden" is going to be counted as right-wing, because it's a political attack on one's own side of the aisle. This indicates that the person doesn't move in lockstep with the party and is willing to speak out against his side, instead of feeling the need to justify everything they do.

It's up to you guys how you want to proceed. Any suggestions are welcome.

[Tartarus Sauce]

I suppose the question here is what we're actually trying to measure.

If we're measuring pure ideology, then a post like "I hate Joe Biden because he's too far to the right for my taste" would be considered left-wing, because it's a critique coming from the left.

However, if we're measuring how polarized the forum is (which was my original intention), then a post from a Democrat saying "I hate Joe Biden" is going to be counted as right-wing, because it's a political attack on one's own side of the aisle. This indicates that the person doesn't move in lockstep with the party and is willing to speak out against his side, instead of feeling the need to justify everything they do.

It's up to you guys how you want to proceed. Any suggestions are welcome.

I didn't have any problems determining whether a partisan post was left or right leaning, I had difficulty determining whether certain posts should be considered partisan or not.

Anyway, I'm sticking by my count.

[John Dule]

I suppose the question here is what we're actually trying to measure.

If we're measuring pure ideology, then a post like "I hate Joe Biden because he's too far to the right for my taste" would be considered left-wing, because it's a critique coming from the left.

However, if we're measuring how polarized the forum is (which was my original intention), then a post from a Democrat saying "I hate Joe Biden" is going to be counted as right-wing, because it's a political attack on one's own side of the aisle. This indicates that the person doesn't move in lockstep with the party and is willing to speak out against his side, instead of feeling the need to justify everything they do.

It's up to you guys how you want to proceed. Any suggestions are welcome.

I didn't have any problems determining whether a partisan post was left or right leaning, I had difficulty determining whether certain posts should be considered partisan or not.

Anyway, I'm sticking by my count.

Here's how you stack up-- now with color-coding!

[Fuzzy Bear]

I've become more partisan over time, perhaps in response to the intense Democratic partisanship on Atlas.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I could try myself, but there are a couple questions I would have first:

-Is talking about evangelical Christianity considered right-wing when it's not explicitly political?  I'd say no, but I could see how some would say yes.

-Is criticizing Trump from the right on stuff like trade considered right-wing or left-wing?

[John Dule]

I could try myself, but there are a couple questions I would have first:

-Is talking about evangelical Christianity considered right-wing when it's not explicitly political?  I'd say no, but I could see how some would say yes.

-Is criticizing Trump from the right on stuff like trade considered right-wing or left-wing?

1) I would say generally no, unless it's related to something specific like how your beliefs affect your politics.
2) For now, let's count critiques of Trump as left-wing-- not so much "left" as "anti-right," I suppose, but still indicative of a willingness to criticize one's own partisan camp when the time comes.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I could try myself, but there are a couple questions I would have first:

-Is talking about evangelical Christianity considered right-wing when it's not explicitly political?  I'd say no, but I could see how some would say yes.

-Is criticizing Trump from the right on stuff like trade considered right-wing or left-wing?

1) I would say generally no, unless it's related to something specific like how your beliefs affect your politics.
2) For now, let's count critiques of Trump as left-wing-- not so much "left" as "anti-right," I suppose, but still indicative of a willingness to criticize one's own partisan camp when the time comes.

This is super approximate.  I did count simple criticisms of Trump as left, but I counted questions like "would you prefer Pence/Cruz/other Republican to Trump" as neither unless I elaborated significantly.  A lot of my posts relate to ultra-conservative personal morality, but not directly to politics.  So, here's my estimation of my most recent 125:

Apolitical/neutral: 108
Right-wing: 14
Left-wing (just criticisms of Trump): 3

That apolitical percentage seems awfully high- if someone wants to be a different set of eyes, feel free!

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

Neutral 73
Left 40
Right 12


34% Partisan
77% Left (I think that translates to 23% on that scale)

September 9th, 2019 to November 3rd, 2019.

[Dr. MB]

Hmm maybe I counted too many posts as "partisan" since a lot were a stretch.

Since most of mine were in the Atlasia boards I counted anything vaguely supporting the Atlasian Labor Party as "left wing" so that can be interpreted in a lot of ways.

[Kingpoleon]

I have to say, I thought a random selection of my posts would tilt one way or the other more. But yes, I’m the only self-identified centrist with as many posts as I have. In fact, I think I’m probably the only very active centrist poster excluding bronz (the troll).

Some of this is very unscientific, but the fact that we're basically getting the results we expect indicates to me that we're on to something.

I’d agree, but isn’t it very concerning that I alone cover almost 40% of the political axis? Maybe we just need a larger sample size, but that seems kind of off.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

One factor that isn't being accounted for here is the intensity of ideological sentiment within a post. For example, if I posted something along the lines of "corporations that aren't either worker-owned or consumer-owned cooperatives have no right to exist" (a position I do actually hold and have alluded to in the past), it would count the same as some random D avatar posting his nine thousandth variation on "Orange Man Bad", even though the sentiment contained would be much more pointedly leftist. I don't really think there's any objective way to operationalize this, and if the goal is to measure rhetorical evenhandedness rather than raw ideology then the difference doesn't matter nearly as much, but it is a factor to consider.

[John Dule]

Someone looking to pass some time should evaluate my posts for me. I gave up after looking at just a few because I couldn't tell.

I had a look at your posts too, but it's hard to know where you're coming from sometimes. For instance, if someone is dumping a lot of polls that have Warren ahead of Biden in the polling threads, and their username is "Warren 4 Prez," I'd count that as political rather than neutral. But sometimes when you point out certain things, it's hard to tell whether you're attacking from the right or from the left. Again, you'd know better than I would where you fall here, so I don't know how much I can help.

Hmm maybe I counted too many posts as "partisan" since a lot were a stretch.

Since most of mine were in the Atlasia boards I counted anything vaguely supporting the Atlasian Labor Party as "left wing" so that can be interpreted in a lot of ways.

If you want to recalculate, go for it. I did find it odd that you ended up alongside Lyndon's crew when you're nowhere near as annoying as he is. I'd count Atlasia posts as apolitical.

One factor that isn't being accounted for here is the intensity of ideological sentiment within a post. For example, if I posted something along the lines of "corporations that aren't either worker-owned or consumer-owned cooperatives have no right to exist" (a position I do actually hold and have alluded to in the past), it would count the same as some random D avatar posting his nine thousandth variation on "Orange Man Bad", even though the sentiment contained would be much more pointedly leftist. I don't really think there's any objective way to operationalize this, and if the goal is to measure rhetorical evenhandedness rather than raw ideology then the difference doesn't matter nearly as much, but it is a factor to consider.

This is true, but while it may not account for how those sentiments come through in a particular post, it will be able to measure how strongly those positions are held throughout a posting history. If someone is as far left as you, I think it still registers appropriately (as the chart shows).

[John Dule]

A quick explanation: While GeneralMacArthur is a Democrat and purportedly a left-winger on this forum, a clear majority of his posts attack Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Tulsi Gabbard from a right-wing perspective. His defenses of Joe Biden pulled him back to the left end of the spectrum, but based on posting history alone, it appears that he goes after Democrats far more often than he attacks Republicans. I tried to be as fair and balanced as possible here, but he still ended up breaking the old partisanship record and nearly shooting into the 90th percentile.

Red avatars of Atlas-- will you guys trade him to us in exchange for Badger?

[Yellowhammer]

Updated chart:

3) A cluster is forming in the upper left hand corner, with three of the most obscenely obnoxious posters on the site all grouped together (as I've indicated). My suspicion is that if/when I add GeneralMacArthur's scores, he'll be within about 5% of those guys.

InvisibleObama and ProudModerate2 probably belong in this region as well.

[morgankingsley]

Interesting how 20 to 30 is the most common range

[John Dule]

Interesting how 20 to 30 is the most common range

From our data set, the average poster is about 8% to the left of the midpoint (less than I was expecting), and almost exactly half of his posts are partisan content (49%).

[Former President tack50]

My own very rough guess for the last 100 posts, and treating Atlasia as apolitical:

Left: 9
Right: 9
Neutral: 78

50% left-right; 22% partisan

Honestly I think I was a bit too quick to categorize certain posts as right wing compared to categorizing them as left wing (for example categorizing a certain race as Lean R or saying Trump is favoured under X circumstances). So a more realistic split might be on the order of 9-5 or something like that.

It also doesn't help that many of my more left wing posts are in Atlasia. In the international boards or Forum Community I am mostly neutral and in the rest of Atlas for some reason I feel more tempted to comment when I am expressing a right wing than a left wing view.

I am also a surprisingly non-partisan poster as well but that is also because such a large proportion of my posts are in Atlasia (though it will probably go down now that I am not in office)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

A quick explanation: While GeneralMacArthur is a Democrat and purportedly a left-winger on this forum, a clear majority of his posts attack Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Tulsi Gabbard from a right-wing perspective. His defenses of Joe Biden pulled him back to the left end of the spectrum, but based on posting history alone, it appears that he goes after Democrats far more often than he attacks Republicans. I tried to be as fair and balanced as possible here, but he still ended up breaking the old partisanship record and nearly shooting into the 90th percentile.

Red avatars of Atlas-- will you guys trade him to us in exchange for Badger?

This does seem like it's bearing out your hypothesis, at least for me; with the exceptions of SawxDem, whom I like, and Yellowhammer, whom I don't, the 60th percentile in PPF seems to be forming a pretty clear line between posters I usually enjoy reading and posters I don't. This is especially clear with ExtremeRepublican/PLSIV, who has some truly horrifying views on e.g. environmental policy but whom I nevertheless mentally classify as "a good poster".

Can you do ChairmanSanchez? I'm interested to see if this can shed any light on why I can't help but like the guy despite the fact that by any objective standard he's a dyed-in-the-wool MAGA bigot. (Of course, that could also just be personal history; we joined the forum around the same time, have more or less been mutually personally supportive since that time, and have some similar life experiences.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Here's my count:
Left: 37
Right: 12
Neutral/apolitical: 51

[John Dule]

Added a trendline now that we have a lot of data points. Horseshoe theory confirmed?



Here's a better visualization of the emerging trend. On the X axis, we have PPF, or the frequency with which the user makes posts that voice his personal opinion on political subjects. On the Y axis, we have partisanship, or the user's deviation from the 50% line (where posts are evenly divided between pro-Democrat and pro-Republican). As you can see, a relationship is beginning to develop. The more partisan a user is, the more likely they are to aggressively voice that partisanship-- and thereby, I would argue, establishing a reputation as an obnoxious poster.

[Progressive Pessimist]

This is actually a pretty fun experiment. And now that I see myself mapped, I guess it does look about right.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Counted my last 300 posts, going back 1 month or so. I decided to dig a little deeper and distinguish different types of left, right or neutral posts. For partisan posts, I separated those that discussed issues from those that discussed people or parties (and whether they were defending or attacking them). Note that, if I'm attacking a nominally left-wing figure from the left, I'm still counting it as an attack on the right and vice versa (so for example an attack on Rahm Emanuel goes in the left-wing category). I was inclusive in what I considered to be partisan issue discussions. For example, any broad defense of democratic principles counts as "left-wing" - conversely, my criticism of referenda counts as a "right-wing" issue position. However, defenses of specific procedural features such as parliamentarism don't count as either left or right.

My few defenses/praises of right-wingers were obviously very rare, and two of them were for John Bercow, which I realize is not ideal, but Bercow is still clearly a right-winger and my praise for him is not inherently left-wing. In terms of issue discussion, many of my right-wing policy positions come from espousing neocon-adjacent views on foreign policy. Similarly, most of my attacks "from the right" to left-wing figures were levied at Ilhan Omar and Jeremy Corbyn.

For neutral posts, I separated those that discussed politics in some form, but not in a partisan one (this includes anything from electoral analysis to discussions of historical figures to taking positions on issues that can't be classified as "left" or "right" in even the broadest definitions), to those that had just no political content at all.


Left-wing: 106 (35%)
Issue discussion: 45
Praise/defense of the left: 22
Criticism/attack on the right: 39

Right-wing: 26 (9%)
Issue discussion: 9
Praise/defense of the right: 3
Criticism/attack on the left: 14

Neutral: 168 (56%)
Political: 119
Apolitical: 49


In other words, I have 44% of "partisan" posts, and of those, 80% are left-wing.

Other interesting stats: 84% of my posts were "political" in a broad sense, and of those, 42% are left-wing, 47% are non-partisan, and 10% are right-wing. 69% of them discussed issues, while 31% discussed people or parties. Of the latter category, 78% did so from a left-wing perspective, and 22% from a right-wing one. Also, 68% of them were negative, and only 32% were positive.

[Goldwater]

Interesting how 20 to 30 is the most common range

From our data set, the average poster is about 8% to the left of the midpoint (less than I was expecting), and almost exactly half of his posts are partisan content (49%).

Honestly, based on the way you have this set up, I imagine that is largely because of Democratic primary infighting.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

Here's my results:

Post Affiliation	No.
Left-wing in nature	0
Right-wing in nature	0
Centrist in nature	0
Just wanting to grill for God's sake	1,351