Sago mine disaster

[MODU]

Its time to think reasonably now, emotions aside.

These men chose to be uneducated in a capitalist society. It is basicaly their own fault they died. They at least  had the brains to get a good paying job with their lack of job skills but they had to take the risks that go with these uneducated jobs.

Breaking away from my ignore list, I just need to inform you that the survivor is a certified electrical engineer, so he is not "uneducated."  He chose to work for the mine since the work there paid more than what his trained profession could provide in the local area.  Not like it takes a lot of brains to be a gym teacher or anything.    Next time, do a little research before posting and making yourself look more like an idiot.

[J. J.]

Republicans have greatly weakened OSHA rules. That mine had a long history of workplace safety violations. The blood of those miners is on the hands of Republicans.

The company that owned it bought it two months ago.

The current theory is that this was due to a lightning strike, which would be kinda hard for OSHA to regulate.

[minionofmidas]

Its time to think reasonably now, emotions aside.

These men chose to be uneducated in a capitalist society. It is basicaly their own fault they died. They at least  had the brains to get a good paying job with their lack of job skills but they had to take the risks that go with these uneducated jobs.

Breaking away from my ignore list, I just need to inform you that the survivor is a certified electrical engineer, so he is not "uneducated."  He chose to work for the mine since the work there paid more than what his trained profession could provide in the local area.  Not like it takes a lot of brains to be a gym teacher or anything.    Next time, do a little research before posting and making yourself look more like an idiot.

I would assume that he probably worked as an electrician in the mine, too. It's not as if mines still needed lots of unskilled labourers. They need far fewer of these than a hundred years ago, but just as many skilled workers, basically.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Actually most newer mines need *more* skilled workers than they did a hundred years ago or so; that said this was a little drift mine so that mighten't be the case.

[DanielX]

Republicans have greatly weakened OSHA rules. That mine had a long history of workplace safety violations. The blood of those miners is on the hands of Republicans.

The company that owned it bought it two months ago.

The current theory is that this was due to a lightning strike, which would be kinda hard for OSHA to regulate.

Jfern probably thinks Global Warming caused the lightning strike. And we all know that those EEEEVVVVIIIILLLL republicans caused Global Warming.

[J-Mann]

The only reason "the working man" is being put down by "the man" is because they allow it by not educating themselves like "the man" did. The truth hurts boy.

The man, Hawkeye, need not be educated at all.  The man is capital, and his position in the economic heirarchy has nothing whatever to do with education.  The aquisition of skills is for the field hands, and the best they can hope for is to be the house slave.  The owner may be a gibbering maniac, and it will make no difference.

Who do you expect to be working in a coal mine?  Grad students?

Joe Republican, a great many graduate students are unemployables - I for example have a master's degree.  These blue collar types are really no different in reality from the 'educated' worker, just in your rather comical petit bourgeois prejudice.  Al is right - this fellows were not so much 'unskilled' as located rurally.

Do you want a job?  I think you're probably a bad example to use for "even graduate students are unemployed," being as how you've expressed nothing but disdain for work, workers and are able to live off of money earned by someone else.

The principle of what you said is correct; there are some graduates out there who can't get the kind of work they want or expect.  You're just not the best example of one of those people, ya know.

And yes, these men were skilled -- skilled at the jobs they had.  We don't really know of their educational backgrounds right now or if they'd been "screwed by the system."  One way or another, we need coal miners just like we need farmers and truck drivers and brick-layers, etc.  It could have just as easily been a family tradition to work in the mines.

If everyone had the status of "the man," as PBrunsel put it, then no one would be "the working man."  We need them, and at the same time, they need to be well-taken care of.

[minionofmidas]

Republicans have greatly weakened OSHA rules. That mine had a long history of workplace safety violations. The blood of those miners is on the hands of Republicans.

The company that owned it bought it two months ago.

The current theory is that this was due to a lightning strike, which would be kinda hard for OSHA to regulate.

Jfern probably thinks Global Warming caused the lightning strike. And we all know that those EEEEVVVVIIIILLLL republicans caused Global Warming.

It's not as if lightning could cause this without human negligence involved. Not in as sensitive - and therefore, by law, as regulated - an environment as an underground mine.

[MODU]

It's not as if lightning could cause this without human negligence involved. Not in as sensitive - and therefore, by law, as regulated - an environment as an underground mine.

Of course, it's easy to make the case that the environment couldn't have caused the accident if the mine shafts weren't dug to begin with. 

This is one of the perks of strip-mining.  Combustable gases don't build up in an open environment, and there is very little fear of a cave in.  Of course, all the perks (including saving money and speeding up the process) of strip-mining doesn't outweigh the damage done to the environment.  The ol' catch 22.

HOWEVER:  I do think that there is a good market for post strip-mining envrionmental recovery, and we might actually be able to go back to strip-mining while also caring for the environment during and after the process.  It will just take more planning and effort. 

[minionofmidas]

Renaturalized former strip mines can look quite lovely ... and serve respite for endangered species too ... the real problem is not so much the environmental cost as the societal one.

[MODU]

Renaturalized former strip mines can look quite lovely ... and serve respite for endangered species too ... the real problem is not so much the environmental cost as the societal one.

That's why I think the planning of "after the ore extraction" prior to anything being done would be a great field to get into. You can take the hill/mountain, show where the ore will be taken from, see in advance what the land will look like afterwards, and then coordinate with the mining company on where and how deep they can dig.  After they are done, you have an already sculptured piece of land to how you had designed, and build beautiful resorts, parks, or residential areas without having to further distrub the environment.  Sounds like a win-win to me.   

[minionofmidas]

Well, the problem is when a community is moved away, okay destroyed, for a strip mine. That's pretty ugly, and no way of planning for afterwards is going to make it better.
Of course that's also a classical argument against dam construction.

[MODU]

Well, the problem is when a community is moved away, okay destroyed, for a strip mine. That's pretty ugly, and no way of planning for afterwards is going to make it better.
Of course that's also a classical argument against dam construction.

hahaha . . . well, as far as strip mining goes, we can just do that where hardly anyone lives to begin with. 

As far as dams go, that's always a toughy.  There will be major impacts on those that live directly above and below the dam, which must be taken into consideration before the process begins.

[opebo]

Do you want a job?  I think you're probably a bad example to use for "even graduate students are unemployed," being as how you've expressed nothing but disdain for work, workers and are able to live off of money earned by someone else.

No, I don't want one, which is fortunate, as I am sure none would be available to me.  At least none that would pay something like a living - Say over $50,000.

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It is probably that such people make up the majority of the work force at present, J-Mann.

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Well, obviously they were screwed, as not only did they make a poor living, and had to work in arduous and unpleasant conditions to do it, they were also killed.

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Be careful, the man doesn't like that kind of talk, J-Mann.  You'll get labeled a liberal.

[J-Mann]

No, I don't want one, which is fortunate, as I am sure none would be available to me.  At least none that would pay something like a living - Say over $50,000.

Northrop Grumman is always sending me job notifications, but most take a master's in international relations, which I don't have ... yet.  If you could ignore the company you work for and just focus on the money, it could be the job for you!  They're always needing foreign-country analysts.

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It is probably that such people make up the majority of the work force at present, J-Mann.[/quote]

Maybe not yet, but soon.  I don't know of many people my age that have landed a "dream job" straight out of college.  Most find something to get by on until they can hunt down something that fits them better.  And yes, you're right, sometimes that never happens.  Then again, some of us get lucky

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I don't think $55,000 a year is being screwed.  Sure, maybe an education could have helped them become "the man" -- er, men, but then again, maybe all that time spent on education would have landed them nothing.  I haven't seen them interview one disgruntled mine worker yet, and they've all agreed that the money is good considering location, type of work, and education level necessary (I doubt they were all electricians).  Many of the miners here in my hometown got their educations by virtue of just doing the work -- and many times, they know a hell of a lot more about mining than the engineers who come in and try to change their ways of doing things.

I do think they deserve more for what they're doing because of the risk involved, but many companies like that one have good pension plans.  My father, a railroad worker, has put in 42 years with the same company, but his job has gotten progressively better, he's more "in charge" now, and his pension will be roughly equal to his current salary when he retires at a relatively young age, and he'll never have to work again like many old folks end up doing.  I would guess that these miners had similar plans.

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Be careful, the man doesn't like that kind of talk, J-Mann.  You'll get labeled a liberal.
[/quote]

LOL, well, maybe -- but it's true.  And PBrunsel has already labeled me a "DemoLib," so name-calling matters very little in this regard

[MODU]

No, I don't want one, which is fortunate, as I am sure none would be available to me.  At least none that would pay something like a living - Say over $50,000.

Northrop Grumman is always sending me job notifications, but most take a master's in international relations, which I don't have ... yet.  If you could ignore the company you work for and just focus on the money, it could be the job for you!  They're always needing foreign-country analysts.

He could always get a job as a deckie aboard ship and make more than $50K for just 7-8 months of work.  Of course, that is actually "work," which I doubt he'd be up for. 

[opebo]

No, I don't want one, which is fortunate, as I am sure none would be available to me.  At least none that would pay something like a living - Say over $50,000.

Northrop Grumman is always sending me job notifications, but most take a master's in international relations, which I don't have ... yet.  If you could ignore the company you work for and just focus on the money, it could be the job for you!  They're always needing foreign-country analysts.

What is a 'foreign country analyst'? 

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I believe the majority become waiters.

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No, no - the Man is the owner.  His position has nothing whatever to do with education.

He could always get a job as a deckie aboard ship and make more than $50K for just 7-8 months of work.  Of course, that is actually "work," which I doubt he'd be up for. 

Alas, MODU, I cannot go out in the sun.

[Joe Republic]

A $50,000+ job for somebody with a Master's degree is easy to find.  You just have to know where to look.

Oh, and have the will to get off your ass and contribute to society too, but I guess that's where it falls down.

[J-Mann]

No, I don't want one, which is fortunate, as I am sure none would be available to me.  At least none that would pay something like a living - Say over $50,000.

Northrop Grumman is always sending me job notifications, but most take a master's in international relations, which I don't have ... yet.  If you could ignore the company you work for and just focus on the money, it could be the job for you!  They're always needing foreign-country analysts.

What is a 'foreign country analyst'? 

They need people to keep them up-to-date on the political and cultural news and trends in certain countries where they may have operations or interests.  The specific job I applied for with them was to be a Latin American political analyst.  It was one of the few I've seen with relatively low requirements -- speaking Spanish was one, which I've got down already.

I'm sure they have needs in Asia.

[opebo]

A $50,000+ job for somebody with a Master's degree is easy to find.  You just have to know where to look.

Really?  Most people I know with master's degrees are waiters and suchlike.  

They need people to keep them up-to-date on the political and cultural news and trends in certain countries where they may have operations or interests.  The specific job I applied for with them was to be a Latin American political analyst.  It was one of the few I've seen with relatively low requirements -- speaking Spanish was one, which I've got down already.

I'm sure they have needs in Asia.

Interesting, J-Mann.  Other than English, I speak Thai only in a fairly rudimentary but servicable way.. and of course do not read or write the language.  I suspect that would exclude me from such positions.  

[J-Mann]

Its time to think reasonably now, emotions aside.

These men chose to be uneducated in a capitalist society. It is basicaly their own fault they died. They at least  had the brains to get a good paying job with their lack of job skills but they had to take the risks that go with these uneducated jobs.

Breaking away from my ignore list, I just need to inform you that the survivor is a certified electrical engineer, so he is not "uneducated."  He chose to work for the mine since the work there paid more than what his trained profession could provide in the local area.  Not like it takes a lot of brains to be a gym teacher or anything.    Next time, do a little research before posting and making yourself look more like an idiot.

  1) I'm willing to bet that most gym teachers are smarter than you and electricians.
2) Any dumb ass can be an electrician. I'm a certified insurance agent and all I had to do was pass a test-which I did when I was 16 years old. The same requirement as an electrician.
3)These men lives are expendible any dumb ass can do their job. They make 50,000 because no other dumb ass wants to do their uneducated, grunt work in a dangerous mine.
4) Do some research next time modu so you don't make yourself look like more of an idiot.
5) And to J-Man: For someone who is a grammar nazi you sure don't double check your qoutations. PBrunsel didn't use the term "the man". I did.

When are you going to be done trolling as Hawkeye, PBrunsel?  It got old about 369 posts ago.

Anyone who calls an electrical engineer "uneducated" needs to pull his head out of his ass, you inbred.

[J-Mann]

Interesting, J-Mann.  Other than English, I speak Thai only in a fairly rudimentary but servicable way.. and of course do not read or write the language.  I suspect that would exclude me from such positions. 

I don't think it would necessarily exclude you.  The job that I applied for recommended that I speak Spanish -- it wasn't a requirement, which leads me to believe that they'd either A) train you in the language, or B) it would have only been an asset, not a necessary requirement for the job.

I think in a lot of situations, rudimentary understanding of a language is enough for some of the jobs, at least the one I was looking at.

[J-Mann]

J-Man where do I even begin with the likes of you? I am in a good mood so It will be allowed.

My brother is at a Know Your Constitution Contest in Des Moines right now. My IP adress  is coming from another town.

J-Man do the research. You do not have to be college educated to be an electrician. An electrician job is known in blue collar circles as "the next best thing" level compared to a college educated job.

I worked as an insurance agent throughout college. I took a test over the summer. An electrician did the same thing because he did not want to do the work to get a better job.

MODU said an electrical engineer, PBrunsel.  HUGE difference.

[J. J.]

Republicans have greatly weakened OSHA rules. That mine had a long history of workplace safety violations. The blood of those miners is on the hands of Republicans.

The company that owned it bought it two months ago.

The current theory is that this was due to a lightning strike, which would be kinda hard for OSHA to regulate.

Jfern probably thinks Global Warming caused the lightning strike. And we all know that those EEEEVVVVIIIILLLL republicans caused Global Warming.

It's not as if lightning could cause this without human negligence involved. Not in as sensitive - and therefore, by law, as regulated - an environment as an underground mine.

The soul human involvement might have been tapping a natural gas reserve and draining it away from the miners. 

Now, they are not sure what caused the explosion, but it might have been an act of nature.

[J-Mann]

Listen Opebo/J-man- you are obviously a fake J-Man, in todays p.c. world a janitor is called a cleanliness administrator and a gym teacher is called a pe instructor. A rose by any other name...

An electrical engineering degree takes five years to complete, PBrunsel.  Even if MODU was mistaken and he was simply an electrician, I'm not sure why their making an average of $55,000 in a mine is considered "poor and uneducated" work by you -- that's a hell of a lot more than the average salary of your made-up job of "gym teacher."

Again, feel free to stop trolling any time you wish.  You tear up your "brother"'s reputation a little more each time you do.

[J-Mann]

I'm sorry. I forgot you were God. It must be hard knowing everything.

Mr. Einstein did you ever look into when I post and when my brother posts or the I.P addresses? I guess you would have to have a minor in criminal justice like me to think of that.

If you did your research J-Man you would find that alot of factory workers are overpaid. My uncle makes 80,000 a year working at ALCOA on an assembly line.

J-Man my posts have far more relevance than anything that you or your troll name opebo can come up with,

Oh, P, you know that only moderators can see IP addresses.

And good for your uncle!  He's contributing to our overall economy and doing quite nicely for himself!  Why hate him for that?  His menial job needs compensated adequately.

Anyway, it matters very little who you are or what you claim to be ... your brother's reputation suffers each time you post.  Most people suspect you are him, or he is you, or whichever you prefer.  You're content to hurt his reputation that much?  Be my guest.  Another discredited extremist is fine with me!