Vice Presidential Debate Commentary Thread

[thumb21]

I will be hosting a debate between the 5 Vice Presidential candidates starting soon. The election itself will be held on the 18th to the 20th - later this month. This is the commentary thread where anyone can comment on the debate.

The candidates are:
- Secretary of State Bruhgmger2 of the Federalist Party.
- Representative Fhtagn of the Conservative Party.
- Former Delegate HillGoose of the Federalist Party.
- Incumbent Vice President Pericles of the Labour Party.
- Representative Wulfric of the Labour Party.

This is the commentary thread, the debate is here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=339183.0

If you have any questions you want me to ask the candidates, please tell me!

[YE]

Under/over on number of moderated posts in the debate thread.

[PSOL]

If you allow Peebs to answer her questions even with her campaign relegated to write-ins, I should be allowed to speak on the VP stage then.

[YE]

“Winfield has never held office before”

He was Governor of somewhere pre-reset.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

“Winfield has never held office before”

He was Governor of somewhere pre-reset.

It's called the reset for a reason.

[YE]

“Winfield has never held office before”

He was Governor of somewhere pre-reset.

It's called the reset for a reason.

Yes because there was a legislative reset

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

Former, pre-reset titles still apply to officeholders. That's why Comrade Funk, for example, was a former officeholder when he ran for Lincoln Council since he was a NE Assemblymember in 2012.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

STRONG

AND

STABLE

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

STRONG

AND

STABLE

[Leinad]

Allow me to make a bit of a critique--I think I used to have a newspaper so I guess I'm an independent journalist?

Thank you thumb21 for hosting this debate and getting in contact with everyone who is on a ticket.

The ticket that AZ and I provide is a promise to restore the Atlasian dream for everyone. The people do not want the government to provide all their basic needs, nor do they want a government that panders to meaningless social issues. They want a government that works towards a society that actually prospers, where there are opportunities for people to work hard and make something of themselves.

Under the current administration, we have lost our way. Rather than focus on issues that matter, the current administration has only created a larger divide, making no effort to bring us together to achieve common goals. The current President has gone out of his way to make false accusations about his political opponents, lied about his intentions, broken his campaign promises, and fostered an environment of shady backroom deals the only benefit himself and his party. The current Vice President has been complicit in this behavior, going out of his way to label an entire side as "extremists" with no proof to back that claim:


When our current President ran on a ticket just last year, even those on "his" side had strong words to say against him:

Griffin is a horrible choice. "Hesitant to re-emerge?" He last re-emerged to take back the helm of Labor and save the party. How'd that go?

He's extremely competent when he's committed to doing a job and finds satisfaction in the work. Probably the most competent the game has seen, and I've even started to like him. But I think it's a bit silly to pretend that he'll feel a personal stake in carrying out the job of VP.

Do I care? Nah. But from one has-been to another, it's just bleh.

The current administration is not someone who inspires, nor is it something Atlasia needs.

Still not convinced? Just look at the President's own words:

Barring a complete collapse or something equally deserving of the attention of a formidable and experienced leader, my time as President will conclude in early November (if elected this month).

we've seen the effects of guaranteed stability by there being no major crisis or scandal develop as a result of this administration

In his own words, there is no collapse, there is no crisis that deserves his attention. Atlasia does not need him. We deserve better than someone who is so willing to go back on his word, and do so openly and without apology.


What AZ and I provide is what anyone who has worked with us has known to be true: that we will work hard, that we will remain transparent  about our goals, that we will fight tooth and nail to keep our promises to the people, and that we will actually work for the people and for the game, not just ourselves and our party.

You start off by saying that the current administration is "pandering to meaningless social issues" (definitely would like a clarification on that!) and imply that they aren't focusing "on issues that matter"--but I think I missed where you addressed what those issues are?

Instead you seem to be making 3 points--that Pericles didn't answer a question on Discord (a meaningless chatroom issue? ), that Hagrid (who you iirc ahistorically claim to be on Adam's side) opposed him for VP last year (despite actually in the statement you quote saying that he's "probably the most competent the game has seen" when invested), and that Adam changed his mind on running for a second term. I suppose the last is a somewhat fair criticism (although I think he's addressed this, I don't remember lol, someone else can link if he has) but...you are running on a ticket with AZ, who we all know changes parties and ideologies like the weather in Texas is on fast-forward.

I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make, honestly.


Also Wulfric is DEAD wrong about pre-reset offices counting (I've said this before but it was a legislative reset not a reset of all reality), but it's also kinda hilarious how seriously he takes the DuleGoose ticket.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I will never understand why people continue to dredge up my name in this game. Adam Griffin is a bowl of potpourri who should obviously be re-elected due to his unmatched talent and greatness (or something). Is he the president?

[Leinad]

I will never understand why people continue to dredge up my name in this game.

It's because you've been associated with the right, center, and nowadays with the "left" (using this term by broad American standards lol). You were also fairly notable in the game but are no longer involved, therefore no one around today particularly hates you. Because of both of these things people can put any sort of image they want on you and it will be considered "the words of a former Elder Statesman" or whatever.

That's my guess at least.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I see. Those who know me should hate me. Cheers.

[Former President tack50]

I do not apologize for defending thr33. I stand by my comments that people who go out of their way to stalk members of the forum off Atlas and Atlas related discord servers and post screenshots out of context to drag them on forum are low lifes that need a real hobby. Allowing this sort of behavior leads to a very slippery slope that no one in their right mind would support. Would it be acceptable for me to find your RL information and post things you said for the purpose of dragging you? My guess would be no, however what you defended leads to exactly that.

Interestingly, after researching this, I just noticed doxxing is perfectly legal in Atlasia! There's nothing in Atlasia's criminal code criminalizing doxxing per se (though it does change regular electoral intimidation to Grievous Electoral Intimidation). I guess I'll introduce legislation to fix this as my last bill this term.

Of course, it most likely is against Atlas' terms of service so the question is irrelevant. If you think Truman deserves to be punished, I guess opening a "Petition to ban Truman" on the "The Atlas" board and petitioning the mods would be the best course of action.

Either way, it is a false equivalence. None of thr33's personal information was ever disclosed. Posting Discord screenshots is nowhere near what you said.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

It's clear that the nuclear power bill is only a distraction meant to deceive the populace from the South's real intent: Not only have they failed to take any truly bold action to prevent climate change, they have actively helped to make it worse.

Comparison of emissions from nuclear and renewable generation
The World Nuclear Association review of lifecycle emissions from nuclear and renewable generation showed that lifecycle emissions from all the major forms of renewables (solar, wind, biomass, hydroelectric) and nuclear were similiar. Replacing generation from nuclear or renewables with fossil fuels would lead to similar rises in greenhouse gas emissions.

Wulfric, why are you being disingenuous? We are on a different path to the same end.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

It's rather absurd to pass the buck on to the minority party

Make up of the 15th Southern Chamber of Delegates
[ 3 ] Labor
[ 2 ] Federalist
[ 2 ] ACP

So apparently 2 is bigger than 3 in NZ maths, good to know

[Pericles]

It's rather absurd to pass the buck on to the minority party

Make up of the 15th Southern Chamber of Delegates
[ 3 ] Labor
[ 2 ] Federalist
[ 2 ] ACP

So apparently 2 is bigger than 3 in NZ maths, good to know

For the purposes of control of the Southern Chamber of Delegates, I am of course combining the Federalists and the ACP. The left certainly has not been in control of the Southern Chamber of Delegates in the last four months and has not been responsible for the overall policy direction of the South.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

the extremism of the right...

So Mr. Vice President, I'm an extremist because I've created bills that passed with bipartisan support?

S.19.2-3: Tax Inclusive Pricing Scheme (TIPS) 6  Aye, 1 Absent
S.19.2-6: resolution relating to freedom of speech on the internet 6 Aye, 1 Nay (an independent)
S.19.2-10: SNUSNU (Southern Nuclear Utilization Scheme Next-gen Update) 6 Aye, 1 Absent
S.19.2-24: TMTH FAPoSE Act 6  Aye, 1 Absent
S.19.2-25: PRAG-Co Act 5 Aye, 2 Absent
S.19.3-20: Southern Governor PMS Act 2 Labor, 1 ACP, 3 Abstain, No Federalist support in the chamber
S.19.3-21: Vexillological Symmetry Act 6 Aye, 1 Abstain
S.19.3-24: Chamber of Delegates Voting Clarity Amendment Passes 1 Vote from each party, 1 Abstain, 3 absent
S.19.3-15: Gambling Immorality Tax Act 5 Aye, 1 Nay, 1 Absent
S.19.3-15: Veto Override 6 Aye, 1 Nay

*edit (forgot to add S.19.3-15 GIT!)