Federal Land Within the Southeast Bill

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As introduced by Senator Ebowed of South Carolina:

Federal Land Within the Southeast Bill

1. The Senate, hereby acknowledging an initiative passed by the voters of the Southeast on the weekend of October 24th, 2005, proceeds to meet the request of the resolution with this bill.

2. All land currently owned by the federal government that is located within the Southeast Region of Atlasia shall have its ownership transferred to the Southeast Regional Government upon the passage of this bill, with the exception of land owned by the federal government that is used for military purposes.

I hereby open debate on this bill

[Emsworth]

I strongly urge the Senate to pass this legislation. The regional government of the Southeast is fully capable of managing parks, monuments, and similar lands. Military bases (as well as the buildings that house federal agencies) should, of course, remain in federal control.

I would have suggested that this legislation be extended to other regions as well, except that none of them have requested such a transfer. Certainly, there is no reason for which this idea should be limited to one region alone; if any other region requests a transfer, the Senate should meet that request.

[MasterJedi]

My vote will be Nay.

[Colin]

I would like to propose two amendments.

Section two will be changed to:

2. All land currently owned by the federal government that is located within the Southeast Region of Atlasia shall have its ownership transferred to the Southeast Regional Government upon the passage of this bill, with the exception of land owned by the federal government that is used for military purposes, and land currently used by official agencies of the Atlasian federal government.

A section three will be added:

3. The Senate may, at any time, transfer control of these said federal lands from the regional government of the Southeast to the Atlasian federal government through a majority vote of the Senate with consent from the region.

[DanielX]

I will favor this bill if Colin's amendments are added.

[minionofmidas]

I urge one my senators to introduce an amendment that adds the word "not" before "used for military purposes".

[TomC]

I strongly urge the Senate to pass this legislation. The regional government of the Southeast is fully capable of managing parks, monuments, and similar lands. Military bases (as well as the buildings that house federal agencies) should, of course, remain in federal control.

I would have suggested that this legislation be extended to other regions as well, except that none of them have requested such a transfer. Certainly, there is no reason for which this idea should be limited to one region alone; if any other region requests a transfer, the Senate should meet that request.

Yes, we are quite capable of managing these lands. Also, I agree and wish to point out we are not asking for special treatment- as a regional government, it would be inappropriate for us to assert the will of other regions, but we fully believe they have a similar right to petition the senate.

[Joe Republic]

I'm not exactly sure what the repercussions of this bill would be.  I'll need to see some more arguments before I decide which pen to pick up once this bill is voted on.

[Jake]

The repercussions will be Southeast ownership of our battlefields, monuments, parks, and assorted historical areas. Nothing more, nothing less.

[The Dowager Mod]

This is no more than a land grab.
If they want federal land they should pay market price for it.

[Joe Republic]

I would be more inclined to support this bill's passage if it dealt with all five regions equally and simultaneously.  I can't really see why one region deserves special treatment.

Also, could somebody please provide some information regarding the financial implications?  We're talking about billions (if not trillions) of dollars worth of land here.  Where does the federal government stand in terms of loss of assets?

[Emsworth]

I would be more inclined to support this bill's passage if it dealt with all five regions equally and simultaneously.  I can't really see why one region deserves special treatment.

I agree that other regions should be allowed to obtain their land if they please. However, only the Southeast has requested a return of the land. It is possible that some of other regions might want the federal government to continue controlling the land.

If the Senate decides to expand the scope of this bill to all regions, it might allow each region to vote on whether it wants to receive the lands or not.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A list of Federal Land within the Southeast would be nice

[TomC]

This is no more than a land grab.
If they want federal land they should pay market price for it.

I find it incredibly ironic that a federal official makes this "land grab" claim. My counter offer would be that we pay what the feds paid, multipled by inflation.

1. Are you aware how much the federal government paid for these lands to  begin with?
2. Are you aware how much state and local tax revenues we have lost because of federal seizure of these lands?
3.  Are you aware how much the bloated federal government spends maintaining these lands? We'd be saving you money by taking these lands back.

Come up with these three figures and then we'll start talking about market value.

Al, when this was originally proposed as an initiative in the SE, I asked for a similar list. Senator-elect Bono proposed the initiative, so IMO, he should provide this list unless the sponsoring senator wishes to.

Also, to add to the debate, here's an interesting editorial on federal lands:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/01-18-99/landcontrol.htm

[TomC]

Let me add on the matter of remuneration- I'd like to ask either Senator Ebowed or Senator-elect Bono: what do you mean by "shall have its ownership transferred to"? Does that mean the SE government shall purchase, or that the ownership will automatically transfer?

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Also, to add to the debate, here's an interesting editorial on federal lands:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/01-18-99/landcontrol.htm

What a joke.

[TomC]

Also, to add to the debate, here's an interesting editorial on federal lands:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/01-18-99/landcontrol.htm

What a joke.

It is a little extreme, especially on environmental groups. I included it mainly because of the acreage numbers..

[MasterJedi]

Can we get a vote on Colin's amendment back on the first page?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not until a couple of questions are answered;

1. Can we have a list of all the Federal Land in the Southeast?

2. Will the Southeast buy the land off the Federal Government or is the Federal Government just going to give it to the Southeast free of charge?

Sorry if I seem to be a little fussy here; it's just that I don't want anything dubious getting in by the backdoor.

[Democratic Hawk]

I strongly urge the Senate to pass this legislation. The regional government of the Southeast is fully capable of managing parks, monuments, and similar lands. Military bases (as well as the buildings that house federal agencies) should, of course, remain in federal control.

I agree. I supported this initiative back on 24th October 2004 and, as a resident of the South East Region and not in my capacity as Co-Senator-elect of District 4, I urge the Senate to pass Senator Ebowed',s legislation in its entirity or, failing that, Senator Colin Wixted's amendment

I believe the transfer of land issue is a matter for the other Regions of Atlasia to consider too

I also urge the Senate to make a decision on this Bill before the next legislative session

Dave 'Hawk'

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some answers to those questions would be nice y'know...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Cough

[Ebowed]

1. Can we have a list of all the Federal Land in the Southeast?

2. Will the Southeast buy the land off the Federal Government or is the Federal Government just going to give it to the Southeast free of charge?

1. I don't have one

2. The latter, but a monetary deal could be arranged I suppose

[minionofmidas]

Cash - most of the land probably was never owned by the states, except in Texas. The battlefields etc nobody's really worried about - you're not just going to sell those off - but to expect a free gift of all the National Forests etc that you can then sell off is patently absurd. This is a billions of dollars gift package we're talking about here - right after the debate about the federal budget deficit...

[Ebowed]

Didn't someone introduce a bill to privatize the Tennessee Valley Authority (the federal governnment would supposedly get $15-20 billion off of an auction)?