Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)

[GoTfan]

Can we please stop talking about how this will benefit candidates? This is kind of a health emergency.

[Heebie Jeebie]

Can we please stop talking about how this will benefit candidates? This is kind of a health emergency.

This is a website dedicated to amateur political analysis.  It's just what we do here.

[Eraserhead]

This thread is classy as ever.

[YE]

Can we please stop talking about how this will benefit candidates? This is kind of a health emergency. This is a website dedicated to amateur political analysis.  It's just what we do here. Considering this story just broke, it’s probably best we keep political ramifications to a minimum, though it is worth highlighting that I have found posts that generally speaking state a wish for Bernie to drop out so he can recover well, appropriate. With that said, I’ve already deleted one post and one topic so far that I didn’t feel was appropriate at least for now, though the latter was also arguably spam as well

[OneJ]

I hope he has a speedy recovery and my condolences go out to his family.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Notice how the mainstream media is quick to jump on Sanders as too old, but they almost never mention how people like Biden, Pelosi, or Hoyer are just as old.

The media discusses Biden's age all the time.

I also heard quite a bit of discussion of the age of Pelosi, Hoyer, and Clyburn during the congressional campaign and subsequent leadership fight.  

But this was mostly in terms of whether Pelosi et al. were out of touch with their party, not their fitness to do the job.  Being a legislator is a much, much different job than being President, and age is much of less of a concern there.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I hope he has a speedy recovery and my condolences go out to his family.

[Crumpets]

From this hater who frequently hates on Bernie: I hope he gets well soon. It was dumb when people tried to hold Clinton fainting against her, and it's dumb to hold getting surgery against Sanders.

[JGibson]

Get well soon, Bernie.

[Tender Branson]

Hope he recovers soon !

But: this is bad news for his campaign, because it re-inforces voters' concerns about his age and a lot of his supporters might as well switch to the younger Warren now.

That's why it is better to have 40-year olds run for President, not 75-90 year olds.

[PSOL]

I think that this event reinforces the fact that the older candidates need to pick solid VPs so as to maintain their electability and agendas in their possibly short terms. I’m going out on a leg and saying that candidates with health concerns need to pick and promote a younger successor at this point.

[Reluctant Republican]

Hope he gets well. From brief research it seems like it's a minor procedure and often done when a  person is younger than Sanders. So he should be able to bounce back, though it's probably an issue of bad PR.

My two main political questions are if he'll be able to make the debate. It's going to be a long one no doubt, and is he able to handle it? According to information he should be able to, but yes, if I were him I'd probably take it easy for a week.

The other issue is I see in the thread he's canceling ads in Iowa, which is baffling. Is the health scare having him reevaluate his plans and planning to drop out? I should say despite political differences I like Sanders(prefer him to Warren, honestly) and I don't want him to withdraw, but I don't really get why else he'd be stopping ads unless he was at least somewhat reevaluating his campaign.

[Torrain]

Update from the AP:

A top official in Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign says the Democratic candidate is in Las Vegas where he’s resting after having a heart procedure for a blocked artery.

Campaign adviser Jeff Weaver says that Sanders’ wife, Jane O’Meara Sanders, is on her way to Las Vegas.

Weaver isn’t saying whether the Vermont senator is still hospitalized.

O’Meara Sanders says in an email that her husband “was doing really well.”

https://apnews.com/eab21e66d7734867b8620fe9efaeb8a2

[Donerail]

Bernie take my artery

[dunceDude]

Hope Sen. Sanders recovers well. Is there any plausible reason he would cancel the ad buy besides that he's seriously considering the future of the campaign? I don't want to jump to conclusions.

[Zaybay]

Hope Sen. Sanders recovers well. Is there any plausible reason he would cancel the ad buy besides that he's seriously considering the future of the campaign? I don't want to jump to conclusions.

The most likely reason is that the Sanders campaign was coordinating a barnstorm of Iowa with the ads on TV, sorta like a 1-2 knockout blow for IA Democrats. But with Sanders out of combat for now, the ads would just play by themselves, making them less effective and still as expensive.

The cancellation came really quick, even before the news had broken that Sanders had went to the doctor earlier, so I have my doubts that the cause was that Sanders thinks that he should possibly drop out(to the chagrin of many posters here). We will see how things develop from here.

[dunceDude]

Hope Sen. Sanders recovers well. Is there any plausible reason he would cancel the ad buy besides that he's seriously considering the future of the campaign? I don't want to jump to conclusions.

The most likely reason is that the Sanders campaign was coordinating a barnstorm of Iowa with the ads on TV, sorta like a 1-2 knockout blow for IA Democrats. But with Sanders out of combat for now, the ads would just play by themselves, making them less effective and still as expensive.

The cancellation came really quick, even before the news had broken that Sanders had went to the doctor earlier, so I have my doubts that the cause was that Sanders thinks that he should possibly drop out(to the chagrin of many posters here). We will see how things develop from here.

This was a great answer, thank you.

[jamestroll]

While stents for a blocked artery isn’t the yuuugest deal, most people don’t know that.  He’s in big trouble.

Yup. It is time stop rallying behind the crippled old man to defeat Trump.

Most of these people are supporting Bernie because they are too scared of having a female president like Elizabeth Warren.

[UncleSam]

Hopefully he isn’t out of it too long, it seems to be a fairly minor procedure normally but when you’re his age anything could take a turn for the worse honestly. In terms of his campaign I don’t think it’ll make a huge difference except to speed up the inevitable swing towards Warren of his supporters. I do think his odds of being given a VP consolation prize went down to zero though (they were very low to begin with).

[Eraserhead]

Hope Sen. Sanders recovers well. Is there any plausible reason he would cancel the ad buy besides that he's seriously considering the future of the campaign? I don't want to jump to conclusions.

The most likely reason is that the Sanders campaign was coordinating a barnstorm of Iowa with the ads on TV, sorta like a 1-2 knockout blow for IA Democrats. But with Sanders out of combat for now, the ads would just play by themselves, making them less effective and still as expensive.

The cancellation came really quick, even before the news had broken that Sanders had went to the doctor earlier, so I have my doubts that the cause was that Sanders thinks that he should possibly drop out(to the chagrin of many posters here). We will see how things develop from here.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

[Epaminondas]

While stents for a blocked artery isn’t the yuuugest deal, most people don’t know that.  He’s in big trouble.

Yup. It is time stop rallying behind the crippled old man to defeat Trump.

Most of these people are supporting Bernie because they are too scared of having a female president like Elizabeth Warren.

You're good a pushing people's buttons. Not so good at convincing them though.

[Crumpets]

For the question of what Bernie needs to do, here is my opinion as someone who had a very high opinion of him until 2015-16, but became disenchanted:

1. He needs to figure out if he is actually a socialist who supports socialist policies, or if he is just a social democrat who is using socialism to find a niche in the political debate. If he wants to say he's going to build a Scandanavian-style state, use the vocabulary people associate with that (i.e. robust welfare state, multi-level collective bargaining, mixed economy, free market). Otherwise, everyone outside of his fan base will just be picturing East Germany or Cuba. If he truly is a socialist, he needs to own it and not try to make it sound like it's basically just Europe with more rose decals.

2. He needs to be more visible on issues that aren't squarely in his wheelhouse. We all know he will show up to support striking workers. That's kind of his thing. Maybe he could take an overseas trip to show how he would function as a diplomat. Maybe he could tour a lab in silicon valley to show he is able to follow the latest technological developments. Maybe he can take a trip to an oil rig to show how he sees those workers fitting in to his vision of America. One thing he did to recently that I'll commend him on in this regard was to visit the Comanche Nation.

3. The only image I have of Bernie is of him hunched over a podium with looking angry and deshevled. It's very on-brand, but it can be off-putting for an undecided voter watching a debate. I don't think he needs to stop being a firebrand or comb his hair - far from it. I think we need to see what makes him laugh, though, and maybe see him not in a suit a couple of times. Maybe he can do some kind of Vermont campfire townhall where he wears flannel and tells a bunch of stories about his misadventures over the years and talks about his family.

4. I think he can hit back on the narrative that his supporters are a bunch of Bernie Bros who won't accept anybody but him and are basicall holding the primary hostage as a result. I think one really easy way he could do this is by having a high-publicity meeting with some of the other candidates where they all talk friendly and as a united front. It might enrage a couple of his supporters who do see everyone else in the primary as a dirty enemy of the revolution. I can say firsthand, though, it made a big difference in 2008 as a Clinton supporter to see Hillary enthusiastically give the roll call vote for New York for Obama. If people who might like Biden or Warren as their first choice but are still considering Sander see them getting along with Bernie, I guarantee it will raise their opinion of him while also doing the good work of bringing the Democrats together to defeat Trump.

5. Why is he running this year with 18 other candidates still in the race? What does he think he has that no other candidate has? I know his supporters will say it's something like "he's had these views for 50 years!" But what Democrats want is someone who, unlike Obama, is able to deliver on these big ideals. I don't think Bernie has separated himself from the pack in this regard. Surely Bernie has something in his heart that is what is driving him to run for president, but even through his passion and energy, I still don't see what he sees in himself that he doesn't see in the rest of the field.

[dunceDude]

For the question of what Bernie needs to do, here is my opinion as someone who had a very high opinion of him until 2015-16, but became disenchanted:

3. The only image I have of Bernie is of him hunched over a podium with looking angry and deshevled. It's very on-brand, but it can be off-putting for an undecided voter watching a debate. I don't think he needs to stop being a firebrand or comb his hair - far from it. I think we need to see what makes him laugh, though, and maybe see him not in a suit a couple of times. Maybe he can do some kind of Vermont campfire townhall where he wears flannel and tells a bunch of stories about his misadventures over the years and talks about his family.

Bernie is notoriously uncomfortable talking about his personal life. I wonder if he thinks it is a gimmick and that politics should just be about the issues. I think this is a great tip for his campaign but he won't do it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

For the question of what Bernie needs to do, here is my opinion as someone who had a very high opinion of him until 2015-16, but became disenchanted:

1. He needs to figure out if he is actually a socialist who supports socialist policies, or if he is just a social democrat who is using socialism to find a niche in the political debate. If he wants to say he's going to build a Scandanavian-style state, use the vocabulary people associate with that (i.e. robust welfare state, multi-level collective bargaining, mixed economy, free market). Otherwise, everyone outside of his fan base will just be picturing East Germany or Cuba. If he truly is a socialist, he needs to own it and not try to make it sound like it's basically just Europe with more rose decals.

He's obviously a social democrat.

2. He needs to be more visible on issues that aren't squarely in his wheelhouse. We all know he will show up to support striking workers. That's kind of his thing. Maybe he could take an overseas trip to show how he would function as a diplomat. Maybe he could tour a lab in silicon valley to show he is able to follow the latest technological developments. Maybe he can take a trip to an oil rig to show how he sees those workers fitting in to his vision of America. One thing he did to recently that I'll commend him on in this regard was to visit the Comanche Nation.

Touring an oil rig? Seriously? That would be pointless.

3. The only image I have of Bernie is of him hunched over a podium with looking angry and deshevled. It's very on-brand, but it can be off-putting for an undecided voter watching a debate. I don't think he needs to stop being a firebrand or comb his hair - far from it. I think we need to see what makes him laugh, though, and maybe see him not in a suit a couple of times. Maybe he can do some kind of Vermont campfire townhall where he wears flannel and tells a bunch of stories about his misadventures over the years and talks about his family.

He's got a dry New England humor.

4. I think he can hit back on the narrative that his supporters are a bunch of Bernie Bros who won't accept anybody but him and are basicall holding the primary hostage as a result. I think one really easy way he could do this is by having a high-publicity meeting with some of the other candidates where they all talk friendly and as a united front. It might enrage a couple of his supporters who do see everyone else in the primary as a dirty enemy of the revolution. I can say firsthand, though, it made a big difference in 2008 as a Clinton supporter to see Hillary enthusiastically give the roll call vote for New York for Obama. If people who might like Biden or Warren as their first choice but are still considering Sander see them getting along with Bernie, I guarantee it will raise their opinion of him while also doing the good work of bringing the Democrats together to defeat Trump.

If you don't see that the Democratic establishment needs huge change, you're not on our side.

5. Why is he running this year with 18 other candidates still in the race? What does he think he has that no other candidate has? I know his supporters will say it's something like "he's had these views for 50 years!" But what Democrats want is someone who, unlike Obama, is able to deliver on these big ideals. I don't think Bernie has separated himself from the pack in this regard. Surely Bernie has something in his heart that is what is driving him to run for president, but even through his passion and energy, I still don't see what he sees in himself that he doesn't see in the rest of the field.

How many of those other candidates supported single payer before Hillary lost? How many are members of congress who never voted to increase the military budget under Trump? How many have a solid progressive record going back 30 years? How many would really fight for change? The idea that Bernie is just like the other 18 candidates is nonsense.

[Landslide Lyndon]

If you don't see that the Democratic establishment needs huge change, you're not on our side.

Death to the counter-revolutionaries!