Should the UK leave or remain in the EU?

[Person Man]

At this point, there needs to be a referendum asking the people what kind of Brexit they want (or no Brexit at all if their opinions have changed). No one was arguing that the UK should leave the EU without a deal back in 2016, so it is completely ludicrous to say that leaving without a deal is the "will of the people" and doing so would likely cause civil unrest and, quite possibly, the dissolution of the union. That said, Parliament just deciding to remain indefinitely any other kind of public vote (asking for extension after extension) would likely cause civil unrest as well so a public vote needs to be held on this topic. To be honest, this should have been a two-part question back in 2016, but no one (including Cameron) thought that leave would win so no one planned for that possible eventuality.

Note: I would support the remain option or a "soft" Norway-style Brexit if it were put up to a vote.

Then-Prime Minister David Cameron should have required at least a two-thirds majority before the process of Brexit could occur.  We don't pass constitutional amendments here in the United States without requiring a general consensus of the people and the states, so a similar standard should have been required for a referendum calling for a change of that magnitude.  A bare majority is hardly indicative of the 'will of the people'.  

Too late.  You can't go back and change the rules once the game is over.  Brexit is brexit, the people are sick & tired of these games from the opposition.  They need to leave on Oct. 31 regardless of what Parliament passes to try & stop it.

Who is your source for these sweeping (and totally baseless) claims - Weekly World News?

He kind of has a point, you know? We have to deal with our consequences. They have to deal with theirs. If that means that the UK goes on to have an economy like Spain's for a few years and that eventually Scotland leaves for the EU, then maybe that is what is needed.

[CumbrianLefty]

And maybe its not.

People should remember it was a very close vote, the verdict deserved respect but this country should not be irrevocably wrecked over it. Apart from anything else, that is how civil wars start.

[Person Man]

And maybe its not.

People should remember it was a very close vote, the verdict deserved respect but this country should not be irrevocably wrecked over it. Apart from anything else, that is how civil wars start.

Trying to settle something by just giving one side whatever it wants? I’m sure any “civil war” would be bloodless. The U.K. and what’s left of it overseas would just do a Soviet style decoupling within 5 years of a nodeal. The last thing we want is a civil war in a country with 60m people, a thousand nukes, and all on an island that is 200 by 500.

[McNukes™ #NYCMMWasAHero]

Leave.

[Velasco]

It's not my place to say this. My opinion is rhat Brits should be given a second opportunity to decide with better information. Another question is what would I do if I was British. Then I'd campaign for another referendum and support Remain.

[Lord Halifax]

They should leave and get EEA status. The UK is too divided to be a reliable partner in the EU.

[parochial boy]

People should probably remember that Brexit, whether no deal or not, is not some intellectual game. It has consequences, millions of people's lives will be affected, in the vast majority of cases for the worse, by any form of Brexit - and even more so by a no deal one.

Crucially, this also includes millions of people who never actually had any say in the matter; and yet whose futures are going to be dramatically altered by what happens next. See the whole saga about "settled status" for what is just one end of the stick in this respect.

[Omega21]

Lastly after seeing how the EU has acted over the past few years, I hold the EU in complete contempt at this point and do not care one bit what happens to it. It really should be nothing more than a trade agreement. The EU doesnt respect Free Speech Rights or Sovereignty one bit and actually deserves to be dismantled

I've been growing up during the transition from communism to democracy. I've seen my country before we've joined the EU and sister European institutions, and I can attest to a tremendous advancement we've experienced since, small wonder Poles have overwhelmingly positive opinion of our membership. Furthermore it's the European institutions are the ultimate guarantee that our present government whose authoritarian tendencies are well-known can't completely take away the rule of law and democratic values. Do I think the EU is in a need of serious reforms? Yes I do, which is another reason why I disagree with your apparent belief it's better to just dismiss all the great thing the EU achieved based on some selected problems of today. Not that I'd expect you'd be too familiar with the issue, given that earlier you've displayed your ignorance on the matted when you've assumed that the European Court of Human Rights was a EU institution, while it's a part of the Council of Europe, which is a diffrent entity.

Oh, and one more thing about the "sovereignty" issue. Member states have made a sovereign decision to enter into that partnership, much like former British colonies, that upon the declaration of independence were essentially independent states, have finally decided to form a permanent union. The fact Europe had overcame centuries of conflicts makes the feat even more impressive. A partnership, I might add, you're free to leave, as the British referendum showed (and it's not the EU's fault they haven't exited yet. It's the British that can't reach an agreement domestically how to leave, so they ask about extention after extention). If other EU countries decides it should go on, and they all pretty much do, then it should go on, as per their sovereign choice.

The US is much much more responsible for the defeat of communism than the EU is . Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU . If that court  doesn’t affect European law than the EU should make it clear that that court has no jurisdiction anywhere in Europe , and if they don’t do that then we’ll then it’s indirectly their court as well .


I don’t want to throw away the EU as a whole I just believe it should just be a free trade agreement and nothing else , sorta like NAFTA

Bruh, you serious?

Are you seriously implying America won the war in Europe?

The Soviet Union was a burning hellhole, but it does not mean you get to glorify the 400,000 Americans who gave their life in the fight against Nazism, without mentioning the 10,000,000 Million Russian soldiers (25 times more) who also fell. You know why, because "80 percent of all German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front."

Now, America played the biggest role in assuring that the USSR didn't take over everything after the Nazis were defeated, but not in the actual defeat of the Third Reich.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Lastly after seeing how the EU has acted over the past few years, I hold the EU in complete contempt at this point and do not care one bit what happens to it. It really should be nothing more than a trade agreement. The EU doesnt respect Free Speech Rights or Sovereignty one bit and actually deserves to be dismantled

I've been growing up during the transition from communism to democracy. I've seen my country before we've joined the EU and sister European institutions, and I can attest to a tremendous advancement we've experienced since, small wonder Poles have overwhelmingly positive opinion of our membership. Furthermore it's the European institutions are the ultimate guarantee that our present government whose authoritarian tendencies are well-known can't completely take away the rule of law and democratic values. Do I think the EU is in a need of serious reforms? Yes I do, which is another reason why I disagree with your apparent belief it's better to just dismiss all the great thing the EU achieved based on some selected problems of today. Not that I'd expect you'd be too familiar with the issue, given that earlier you've displayed your ignorance on the matted when you've assumed that the European Court of Human Rights was a EU institution, while it's a part of the Council of Europe, which is a diffrent entity.

Oh, and one more thing about the "sovereignty" issue. Member states have made a sovereign decision to enter into that partnership, much like former British colonies, that upon the declaration of independence were essentially independent states, have finally decided to form a permanent union. The fact Europe had overcame centuries of conflicts makes the feat even more impressive. A partnership, I might add, you're free to leave, as the British referendum showed (and it's not the EU's fault they haven't exited yet. It's the British that can't reach an agreement domestically how to leave, so they ask about extention after extention). If other EU countries decides it should go on, and they all pretty much do, then it should go on, as per their sovereign choice.

The US is much much more responsible for the defeat of communism than the EU is . Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU . If that court  doesn’t affect European law than the EU should make it clear that that court has no jurisdiction anywhere in Europe , and if they don’t do that then we’ll then it’s indirectly their court as well .


I don’t want to throw away the EU as a whole I just believe it should just be a free trade agreement and nothing else , sorta like NAFTA

Bruh, you serious?

Are you seriously implying America won the war in Europe?

The Soviet Union was a burning hellhole, but it does not mean you get to glorify the 400,000 Americans who gave their life in the fight against Nazism, without mentioning the 10,000,000 Million Russian soldiers (25 times more) who also fell. You know why, because "80 percent of all German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front."

Now, America played the biggest role in assuring that the USSR didn't take over everything after the Nazis were defeated, but not in the actual defeat of the Third Reich.

No I am not saying that , I am just saying the only part of Germany that was free after the war was the Western Part. The Eastern Part was most certainly not free until the reunification of Germany in 1990.

[Omega21]

Lastly after seeing how the EU has acted over the past few years, I hold the EU in complete contempt at this point and do not care one bit what happens to it. It really should be nothing more than a trade agreement. The EU doesnt respect Free Speech Rights or Sovereignty one bit and actually deserves to be dismantled

I've been growing up during the transition from communism to democracy. I've seen my country before we've joined the EU and sister European institutions, and I can attest to a tremendous advancement we've experienced since, small wonder Poles have overwhelmingly positive opinion of our membership. Furthermore it's the European institutions are the ultimate guarantee that our present government whose authoritarian tendencies are well-known can't completely take away the rule of law and democratic values. Do I think the EU is in a need of serious reforms? Yes I do, which is another reason why I disagree with your apparent belief it's better to just dismiss all the great thing the EU achieved based on some selected problems of today. Not that I'd expect you'd be too familiar with the issue, given that earlier you've displayed your ignorance on the matted when you've assumed that the European Court of Human Rights was a EU institution, while it's a part of the Council of Europe, which is a diffrent entity.

Oh, and one more thing about the "sovereignty" issue. Member states have made a sovereign decision to enter into that partnership, much like former British colonies, that upon the declaration of independence were essentially independent states, have finally decided to form a permanent union. The fact Europe had overcame centuries of conflicts makes the feat even more impressive. A partnership, I might add, you're free to leave, as the British referendum showed (and it's not the EU's fault they haven't exited yet. It's the British that can't reach an agreement domestically how to leave, so they ask about extention after extention). If other EU countries decides it should go on, and they all pretty much do, then it should go on, as per their sovereign choice.

The US is much much more responsible for the defeat of communism than the EU is . Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU . If that court  doesn’t affect European law than the EU should make it clear that that court has no jurisdiction anywhere in Europe , and if they don’t do that then we’ll then it’s indirectly their court as well .


I don’t want to throw away the EU as a whole I just believe it should just be a free trade agreement and nothing else , sorta like NAFTA

Bruh, you serious?

Are you seriously implying America won the war in Europe?

The Soviet Union was a burning hellhole, but it does not mean you get to glorify the 400,000 Americans who gave their life in the fight against Nazism, without mentioning the 10,000,000 Million Russian soldiers (25 times more) who also fell. You know why, because "80 percent of all German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front."

Now, America played the biggest role in assuring that the USSR didn't take over everything after the Nazis were defeated, but not in the actual defeat of the Third Reich.

No I am not saying that , I am just saying the only part of Germany that was free after the war was the Western Part. The Eastern Part was most certainly not free until the reunification of Germany in 1990.

Oh, I thought you meant the actual war, my bad...

Yeah, for West Germany, America was definitely the biggest (possibly the only) factor in actually stopping the USSR from steamrolling the rest of Europe after WW2.


As for the UK, the best thing to do would be to call an election or a referendum which would set in stone how the UK should exit, so after that at least there would be no "But the people didn't vote for no-deal etc.).

[OSR stands with Israel]

Lastly after seeing how the EU has acted over the past few years, I hold the EU in complete contempt at this point and do not care one bit what happens to it. It really should be nothing more than a trade agreement. The EU doesnt respect Free Speech Rights or Sovereignty one bit and actually deserves to be dismantled

I've been growing up during the transition from communism to democracy. I've seen my country before we've joined the EU and sister European institutions, and I can attest to a tremendous advancement we've experienced since, small wonder Poles have overwhelmingly positive opinion of our membership. Furthermore it's the European institutions are the ultimate guarantee that our present government whose authoritarian tendencies are well-known can't completely take away the rule of law and democratic values. Do I think the EU is in a need of serious reforms? Yes I do, which is another reason why I disagree with your apparent belief it's better to just dismiss all the great thing the EU achieved based on some selected problems of today. Not that I'd expect you'd be too familiar with the issue, given that earlier you've displayed your ignorance on the matted when you've assumed that the European Court of Human Rights was a EU institution, while it's a part of the Council of Europe, which is a diffrent entity.

Oh, and one more thing about the "sovereignty" issue. Member states have made a sovereign decision to enter into that partnership, much like former British colonies, that upon the declaration of independence were essentially independent states, have finally decided to form a permanent union. The fact Europe had overcame centuries of conflicts makes the feat even more impressive. A partnership, I might add, you're free to leave, as the British referendum showed (and it's not the EU's fault they haven't exited yet. It's the British that can't reach an agreement domestically how to leave, so they ask about extention after extention). If other EU countries decides it should go on, and they all pretty much do, then it should go on, as per their sovereign choice.

The US is much much more responsible for the defeat of communism than the EU is . Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU . If that court  doesn’t affect European law than the EU should make it clear that that court has no jurisdiction anywhere in Europe , and if they don’t do that then we’ll then it’s indirectly their court as well .


I don’t want to throw away the EU as a whole I just believe it should just be a free trade agreement and nothing else , sorta like NAFTA

Bruh, you serious?

Are you seriously implying America won the war in Europe?

The Soviet Union was a burning hellhole, but it does not mean you get to glorify the 400,000 Americans who gave their life in the fight against Nazism, without mentioning the 10,000,000 Million Russian soldiers (25 times more) who also fell. You know why, because "80 percent of all German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front."

Now, America played the biggest role in assuring that the USSR didn't take over everything after the Nazis were defeated, but not in the actual defeat of the Third Reich.

No I am not saying that , I am just saying the only part of Germany that was free after the war was the Western Part. The Eastern Part was most certainly not free until the reunification of Germany in 1990.

Oh, I thought you meant the actual war, my bad...

Yeah, for West Germany, America was definitely the biggest (possibly the only) factor in actually stopping the USSR from steamrolling the rest of Europe after WW2.


As for the UK, the best thing to do would be to call an election or a referendum which would set in stone how the UK should exit, so after that at least there would be no "But the people didn't vote for no-deal etc.).

I agree if you mean putting up these options for referendum: The May Deal(This would be the Yes Vote), or Hard Brexit(This would be the No vote)

[OSR stands with Israel]

Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU.

Also, um, yeah but no thank you, the ones that brought down the Stasi Regime were the German people themselves in the east, who protested at the risk of arrest and torture for their civil rights and reunifcation, not the American Military. You do net get to take credit for that, or for any of the uprisings in Eastern Europe for that matter. You may have provided the military umbrella for the west, and thanks for that I guess, but America or indeed your enamoured Ronald Reagan were as little the Liberators of East Germany as the French were the liberators of your Country in 1776.

You can add Truman , IKE, Nixon, HW Bush to the list as well who did a lot to win the Cold War as well

[Pericles]

The UK should have another referendum and vote to remain inside the European Union. The referendum would probably need to provide options for multiple kinds of Brexit-so May's deal, no deal and maybe a softer Brexit. This could be done with a two question referendum-a Remain vs Leave question and then a question on "If Britain leaves, what sort of future relationship do you prefer?"

The 2016 referendum was fundamentally flawed because Brexit lacked a clear meaning. No deal was not seen as a viable option in 2016, even Michael Gove admitted that no deal was "not the message of the campaign I helped lead." Even May's deal is a hard Brexit and quite extreme from the expectations in 2016-while people voted to Leave it is unreasonable given how the Leave campaign promised that Britain would be able to retain its access to European markets and would get a good deal to presume that the 52%-48% result was a mandate for the hardest and most extreme possible Brexit. No clear version of Brexit was on the ballot and indeed the 52% was a combination of support for different visions of Brexit-therefore the 2016 referendum did not give any version of Brexit democratic legitimacy and majority support.

It is highly possible that the British people, having seen that Brexit is not as easy as promised, have changed their minds. The 2016 referendum was a very narrow result. It has been estimated that if nobody changed their minds, then just based on new voters being eligible and older Leave voters dying then Remain would actually win the referendum. While British polling is not stellar, more people now seem to think Britain was wrong to leave the European Union and Remain leads the viable Brexit options. The rhetoric about the 'will of the people' is misleading because it is far from clear that the will of the people is for a no deal Brexit.

Furthermore, Brexit is pretty clearly going to be economically harmful for Britain. I believe it is wrong as a matter of policy. The vast majority of expert opinion is that Brexit-whatever form it takes-would impose economic barriers between Britain and European markets, and reduce Britain's GDP.  Additionally, rather than boosting Britain's public services, by shrinking the economy it would reduce the tax take and increase transfer payments so that there would be less money for the NHS. Britain has an unappetizing choice between aligning with EU rules while now having no say in how they are made, or suffering further economic decline from Brexit. Government estimates projected a decline in GDP of 2-4% from May's deal compared to remaining in the EU, and up to a 10% decline from a no deal Brexit. The EU has been unfairly demonized in British politics, immigration overall is a benefit to the economy and there is little evidence that immigrants are a significant burden on public services (and often are scapegoated for the consequences of the Conservative Party's austerity). Cooperation between Britain and Europe through the EU has other benefits by better enabling both countries to protect their security.

Brexit is a bad, economically harmful policy with little to no benefit to Britain, that is being justified with the idea of it being the 'will of the people', even though there was no mandate for the no deal Brexit position being pursued by the government and it is very possible the British people have changed their minds and a majority want to now remain in the European Union. Therefore, the most democratically legitimate outcome would be to allow people to have a final say on whether they want to leave, now with the chance to make a more informed choice and decide based on a clear version of Brexit being available. A second referendum, in which Britain votes to remain in the EU, would be the best outcome.

[Omega21]

Lastly after seeing how the EU has acted over the past few years, I hold the EU in complete contempt at this point and do not care one bit what happens to it. It really should be nothing more than a trade agreement. The EU doesnt respect Free Speech Rights or Sovereignty one bit and actually deserves to be dismantled

I've been growing up during the transition from communism to democracy. I've seen my country before we've joined the EU and sister European institutions, and I can attest to a tremendous advancement we've experienced since, small wonder Poles have overwhelmingly positive opinion of our membership. Furthermore it's the European institutions are the ultimate guarantee that our present government whose authoritarian tendencies are well-known can't completely take away the rule of law and democratic values. Do I think the EU is in a need of serious reforms? Yes I do, which is another reason why I disagree with your apparent belief it's better to just dismiss all the great thing the EU achieved based on some selected problems of today. Not that I'd expect you'd be too familiar with the issue, given that earlier you've displayed your ignorance on the matted when you've assumed that the European Court of Human Rights was a EU institution, while it's a part of the Council of Europe, which is a diffrent entity.

Oh, and one more thing about the "sovereignty" issue. Member states have made a sovereign decision to enter into that partnership, much like former British colonies, that upon the declaration of independence were essentially independent states, have finally decided to form a permanent union. The fact Europe had overcame centuries of conflicts makes the feat even more impressive. A partnership, I might add, you're free to leave, as the British referendum showed (and it's not the EU's fault they haven't exited yet. It's the British that can't reach an agreement domestically how to leave, so they ask about extention after extention). If other EU countries decides it should go on, and they all pretty much do, then it should go on, as per their sovereign choice.

The US is much much more responsible for the defeat of communism than the EU is . Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU . If that court  doesn’t affect European law than the EU should make it clear that that court has no jurisdiction anywhere in Europe , and if they don’t do that then we’ll then it’s indirectly their court as well .


I don’t want to throw away the EU as a whole I just believe it should just be a free trade agreement and nothing else , sorta like NAFTA

Bruh, you serious?

Are you seriously implying America won the war in Europe?

The Soviet Union was a burning hellhole, but it does not mean you get to glorify the 400,000 Americans who gave their life in the fight against Nazism, without mentioning the 10,000,000 Million Russian soldiers (25 times more) who also fell. You know why, because "80 percent of all German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front."

Now, America played the biggest role in assuring that the USSR didn't take over everything after the Nazis were defeated, but not in the actual defeat of the Third Reich.

No I am not saying that , I am just saying the only part of Germany that was free after the war was the Western Part. The Eastern Part was most certainly not free until the reunification of Germany in 1990.

Oh, I thought you meant the actual war, my bad...

Yeah, for West Germany, America was definitely the biggest (possibly the only) factor in actually stopping the USSR from steamrolling the rest of Europe after WW2.


As for the UK, the best thing to do would be to call an election or a referendum which would set in stone how the UK should exit, so after that at least there would be no "But the people didn't vote for no-deal etc.).

I agree if you mean putting up these options for referendum: The May Deal(This would be the Yes Vote), or Hard Brexit(This would be the No vote)

Oh yeah, obviously it should be some sort of vote (whether indirect through 2 election groups or direct by 2 choice referendum) on how they wish to leave, not if they want to leave.

Germany was set free by America (The west in the late 1940s and the east in 1990) not the EU.

Also, um, yeah but no thank you, the ones that brought down the Stasi Regime were the German people themselves in the east, who protested at the risk of arrest and torture for their civil rights and reunifcation, not the American Military. You do net get to take credit for that, or for any of the uprisings in Eastern Europe for that matter. You may have provided the military umbrella for the west, and thanks for that I guess, but America or indeed your enamoured Ronald Reagan were as little the Liberators of East Germany as the French were the liberators of your Country in 1776.

The fall itself and the events leading up to it are mostly a result of the people, but I doubt the USSR and its satellites would have fallen "so quickly" had they had no enemy that always kept them on their toes and required them to spend a large portion of their resources to keep up or excel scientifically and militarily, which just deepened the already present shortages and issues, leading to more dissatisfaction etc.

[Democratic Hawk]

Remain

[Person Man]

I still think there should be a three way vote on whether to default, revoke Art. 50, or sign the EU's deal. There is apparently no renegotiation. If no option gets 50%, there then should be an election as quickly as possible after that. 

[Badger]

Remain in the EU and then join Schengen and the Eurozone.

This. And it should be subjected to a vote again. Believe boat was a 51-49 split for which a substantial number of leave voters have good reason to feel that they were sold a bad bill of goods. The leaf folks whining about oh dear we must respect the will of the people but we can't go through the hassle of having an election every couple years blah blah blah, are simply and purely afraid that, if given a chance, British voters will turn their backs on brexit.

It was a stupid idea to begin with.

[Frodo]

Speaking of former Prime Minister David Cameron, he is now expressing regret over the repercussions of the Brexit referendum:

Former British PM Cameron 'truly sorry' for Brexit divisions

[CumbrianLefty]

Whilst my initial response to that is unprintable, he does also have some unflattering comments about our present PM which appear all too believable.

[Bojack Horseman]

Remain. Brexit is an economically suicidal idea that people voted for so they could get rid of those scary brown immigrants at the expense of their economy and health care system. Parliament needs to take a stand for the sake of their country and block any exit from the EU.

[Lechasseur]

Remain

But frankly I don't see that happening