Most and least powerful Governors
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  Most and least powerful Governors
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BRTD
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« on: September 04, 2019, 01:15:10 PM »

Which states would this qualify for?

From my limited knowledge:

Most powerful:
New Jersey's has the power to appoint all state row offices, something I don't think that exists in any other state, which is immensely powerful, especially appointing the Attorney General. Maryland's has quite a bit of power over the budget even with an opposed legislature, which is why Hogan has managed to get more done than you'd think with a veto-proof opposing majority. Florida's apparently has the ability to dismiss and replace county office holders, which is pretty significant. Any others?

Least powerful:
The Governor of Texas can't even appoint the State Supreme Court or issue pardons unless they're first recommended by a state agency on pardons. For such a large and important state, it's a shockingly weak office and mostly ceremonial. The Governor of West Virginia has a very weak veto power (only takes a majority vote to override unless it's a budget bill), and seemingly mostly just ceremonial duties. Their only serious power seems to be the ability to call a special session of the legislature and have budget vetoes upheld. Any others?
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2019, 01:34:41 PM »

States where governors have no say in redistricting like North Carolina deserve special mention.
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2019, 07:14:40 PM »

Least powerful:
The Governor of Texas can't even appoint the State Supreme Court or issue pardons unless they're first recommended by a state agency on pardons. For such a large and important state, it's a shockingly weak office and mostly ceremonial.

I've read a lot of times though that the lieutenant governor of Texas is supposed to be the most powerful politician occupying such an office.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2019, 07:17:18 PM »

Least powerful:
The Governor of Texas can't even appoint the State Supreme Court or issue pardons unless they're first recommended by a state agency on pardons. For such a large and important state, it's a shockingly weak office and mostly ceremonial.

I've read a lot of times though that the lieutenant governor of Texas is supposed to be the most powerful politician occupying such an office.

That goes for the Speaker, too.
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 03:44:40 PM »

The least powerful gubernatorial offices are the ones where the legislature can override with a simple majority. Why even bother with a governor at that point?
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Santander
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 05:30:28 PM »

From my limited knowledge, those were the two I had in mind.
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TrendsareUsuallyReal
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 06:13:38 PM »

Texas' governor isn't anywhere near as powerless as the Governor of Kentucky or West Virginia.

In a hypothetical world where Andy Beshear magically beats Bevin, Gov. Beshear wouldn't be able to do anything constructive so long as Republicans in each house have a simple majority to override his every veto.
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urutzizu
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 06:15:34 PM »

Arent there some states where Governors have ridiculous line-item vetos that let them edit individual letters and words and thereby create completely new sentences that have nothing to do with the original provisions of the bill? Wisconsin was one I think.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2019, 07:58:57 AM »

Which states would this qualify for?

From my limited knowledge:

Most powerful:
New Jersey's has the power to appoint all state row offices, something I don't think that exists in any other state, which is immensely powerful, especially appointing the Attorney General. Maryland's has quite a bit of power over the budget even with an opposed legislature, which is why Hogan has managed to get more done than you'd think with a veto-proof opposing majority. Florida's apparently has the ability to dismiss and replace county office holders, which is pretty significant. Any others?

Least powerful:
The Governor of Texas can't even appoint the State Supreme Court or issue pardons unless they're first recommended by a state agency on pardons. For such a large and important state, it's a shockingly weak office and mostly ceremonial. The Governor of West Virginia has a very weak veto power (only takes a majority vote to override unless it's a budget bill), and seemingly mostly just ceremonial duties. Their only serious power seems to be the ability to call a special session of the legislature and have budget vetoes upheld. Any others?

That's actually a pretty good idea, and I'd support something similar being implemented at the federal level to prevent presidents from abusing the power to pardon.
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2019, 10:22:38 AM »

Which states would this qualify for?

From my limited knowledge:

Most powerful:
New Jersey's has the power to appoint all state row offices, something I don't think that exists in any other state, which is immensely powerful, especially appointing the Attorney General. Maryland's has quite a bit of power over the budget even with an opposed legislature, which is why Hogan has managed to get more done than you'd think with a veto-proof opposing majority. Florida's apparently has the ability to dismiss and replace county office holders, which is pretty significant. Any others?

Least powerful:
The Governor of Texas can't even appoint the State Supreme Court or issue pardons unless they're first recommended by a state agency on pardons. For such a large and important state, it's a shockingly weak office and mostly ceremonial. The Governor of West Virginia has a very weak veto power (only takes a majority vote to override unless it's a budget bill), and seemingly mostly just ceremonial duties. Their only serious power seems to be the ability to call a special session of the legislature and have budget vetoes upheld. Any others?

That's actually a pretty good idea, and I'd support something similar being implemented at the federal level to prevent presidents from abusing the power to pardon.

Look up the case of Benjamin Spencer. It's making freeing him much more difficult.
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 02:24:02 PM »

The least powerful gubernatorial offices are the ones where the legislature can override with a simple majority. Why even bother with a governor at that point?

It's kind of tricky, since Governor of Alabama has wide executive powers (which seems even more impressive once you realize the state has a direct rule over most countries), but at the same time is hindered by said "veto overturned by a simple majority" thing.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2019, 07:56:39 PM »

Wisconsin for most. Not sure about least.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2019, 09:53:13 PM »

Well, for clearly less powerful governors, we can start with the simple majority veto override states:



Note that the governor of Indiana also does not even have a line item veto and that the governors of Arkansas, Tennessee, Alabama, and West Virginia do not get to choose their LG/successor and could be stuck with an LG of the opposite party.  The governor of Arkansas also faces a lifetime 2 term limit like the president, which is rare for governors.     

Next, their are some states we can add to this list where certain constitutional provisions clearly weaken the governor:



Delaware: 60% veto override + lifetime 2 term limit + separately elected LG

Nevada: no line item veto + lifetime 2 term limit + separately elected LG

New Hampshire: 2 year term + no line item veto + Executive Council elected by district (meaning it can often be controlled by the opposite party, as it is now) that wields many powers granted to the governor in other states + senate president as LG

North Carolina: 60% of those present veto override + no veto over redistricting + further restrictions on what can be vetoed (NC was a simple majority override state for everything until 1996) + separately elected LG

Rhode Island: no line item veto + 60% veto override + separately elected LG

Vermont: 2 year term + no line item veto + separately elected LG

Virginia: cannot run for reelection + separately elected LG + judiciary chosen by legislature with governor having no say

The Virginia governor does surprisingly have amendatory veto (the strongest form of veto power) and a 2/3rds veto override threshold, but the other limitations, particularly the ban on consecutive terms, are severe enough to classify VA-GOV as weak.

Now, let's look at some states where the governor is clearly more powerful than average:




Florida: unilaterally fills state supreme court vacancies + can pick their LG + a lot of unilateral authority over county officials + extensive emergency powers invoked almost annually due to hurricanes

Illinois: amendatory veto + lots of unilateral appointments + strong ability to intervene in local/county level governance + no term limits + can pick their LG

Louisiana: unusually broad executive powers (exceptional for a Southern state) + lots of unilateral appointments + strong tradition of the governor intervening in the legislature's affairs, primarily a legacy of Huey Long building a political machine during the 1930's (for example, JBE was able to unilaterally implement the Medicaid expansion upon taking office, over the legislature's objections)

Maryland: lots of unilateral appointments + significant authority over local/county affairs + can pick their LG + gets to unilaterally draw the state legislative maps if redistricting deadlocks (though less likely to ever be invoked because of 60% majority veto override)

Massachusetts: amendatory veto + no term limits + guaranteed a same party LG

Montana: amendatory veto + can pick their LG

New Jersey: direct appointment of all other statewide offices + direct appointment of most county officials + amendatory veto + can pick their LG

New York: no term limits + guaranteed a same party LG + a lot of appointments and authority over localities

Pennsylvania: amendatory veto + guaranteed a same party LG (legislature is considering a potential constitutional amendment to let the governor pick the LG directly)

Wisconsin: amendatory veto (but legislature currently trying to amend state constitution to limit this) + no term limits + guaranteed a same party LG

South Dakota: amendatory veto + can pick their LG
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 11:24:32 AM »

How do? Is that still the case after the legislative power grab against Evers?
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2019, 01:31:26 PM »

The least powerful gubernatorial offices are the ones where the legislature can override with a simple majority. Why even bother with a governor at that point?

So they have someone to cut ribbons at the opening of a new hospital.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2019, 05:27:56 PM »

In Arkansas, Asa, at least, signals if he opposes any legislation, and it is usually not even brought to the floor of a committee. On paper, he may not have much power, but when three of the legislators are his nephew, a Senator, his sister-in-law, a powerful Representative, and his other nephew, the Senate’s President Pro Tempore... He has a lot of power.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 11:49:02 PM »

In Arkansas, Asa, at least, signals if he opposes any legislation, and it is usually not even brought to the floor of a committee. On paper, he may not have much power, but when three of the legislators are his nephew, a Senator, his sister-in-law, a powerful Representative, and his other nephew, the Senate’s President Pro Tempore... He has a lot of power.

Then he has informal power due to being part of a political family.  But it still holds true that if JBE had close relatives in those legislative positions in Louisiana or Hogan in Maryland or Murphy in New Jersey, they would be more powerful still.  Of course, the more urbanized nature of most of the powerful governor states makes that unlikely, but it's easy to imagine e.g. a Kennedy as governor of MA with several Kennedy's in both houses of the state legislature.     
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2019, 11:33:09 AM »

It’s not just being a part of a family - he has as much control over “The Party” as a Chinese Communist. He’s been at the top, and in the inner circle of it for two decades. Heck, in 2006 many thought he had a serious chance of beating a freaking Rockefeller in the primary, and that dynasty literally led the state GOP from not having a single seat in either house to the Governorship. I don’t know many other states that operate with a Governor who also basically doubles (informally) as Party Chair.
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Orser67
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2019, 05:30:55 PM »

Florida: unilaterally fills state supreme court vacancies + can pick their LG + a lot of unilateral authority over county officials + extensive emergency powers invoked almost annually due to hurricanes

Nice overview. What's the deal with FL's cabinet, is that pretty much not important anymore? It seemed like at one point FL had a plural executive set-up that made the FL governor particularly weak.
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StateBoiler
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 02:39:40 PM »

States where governors have no say in redistricting like North Carolina deserve special mention.

The governor of North Carolina did not even have a veto until Hunt was able to get a constitutional amendment through in a referendum in 1996. The state was greatly influenced by its colonial history and setup intentionally a weak executive.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2019, 03:43:17 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2019, 05:48:20 PM by brucejoel99 »

Florida: unilaterally fills state supreme court vacancies + can pick their LG + a lot of unilateral authority over county officials + extensive emergency powers invoked almost annually due to hurricanes

Actually, the Governor of Florida gets to unilaterally pick but only from a selection chosen by the Judicial Nominating Commission; basically, akin to the federal prism, the JNC is the President who nominates while the Governor is the Senate which confirms.

However, the JNC is largely appointed by the Governor (& unilaterally so, at that), & though the remaining members are appointed by the Florida Bar, the Governor has a veto over their nominees, so in practice, the JNC will never offer up a slate of nominees that a Governor won't be inclined to select from.
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