Romanian Elections&Politics (Presidential election-type event: May 4th/GEORGESCU ARRESTED)

[RGM2609]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

The part that I don't understand is why Iohannis is de-facto cooperating with PSD (after all he supplied, the supposed evidence that evidence was crucial in the decision of the Constitutional Court). One would expect him to be closer to Lasconi and her party than to the PSD.

Since late 2021, it has been PSD that provided him with what he actually wanted since his election as President: "stability", silence, the ability to go AWOL on the entire country for months, the ability to engage in high-end tourism, and obscene luxury on the dime of the taxpayers, expansive budgets at his disposal, etc. And he essentially left PSD to its own devices, forcing PNL to ally with them and support their governance. The love affair suddenly ended a few months ago, when PSD refused to allow Iohannis to run for Parliament in this electoral cycle, but it seems like they're back on. I mean, they surely promised him something in exchange for his cooperation, but given that his relations with the new PNL leader are somewhere between "vitriolic hatred" to "they'd kill each other on the spot", it's not like he has too many options for a new job following his Presidency ending.

[jaichind]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

So under this narrative was there any PSD-Russia coordination to boost Georgescu since both have an incentive for Georgescu to do well in the first round?

[RGM2609]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

So under this narrative was there any PSD-Russia coordination to boost Georgescu since both have an incentive for Georgescu to do well in the first round?

I'm not sure. I wouldn't put it past them, but the events also evolved so fast I doubt any meaningful cooperation was established. What I can say for sure is PSD knew what the Russians were doing from before the first round and did nothing about it until now.

[Flyersfan232]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

The part that I don't understand is why Iohannis is de-facto cooperating with PSD (after all he supplied, the supposed evidence that evidence was crucial in the decision of the Constitutional Court). One would expect him to be closer to Lasconi and her party than to the PSD.

blackmail?

[Flyersfan232]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

The part that I don't understand is why Iohannis is de-facto cooperating with PSD (after all he supplied, the supposed evidence that evidence was crucial in the decision of the Constitutional Court). One would expect him to be closer to Lasconi and her party than to the PSD.

Since late 2021, it has been PSD that provided him with what he actually wanted since his election as President: "stability", silence, the ability to go AWOL on the entire country for months, the ability to engage in high-end tourism, and obscene luxury on the dime of the taxpayers, expansive budgets at his disposal, etc. And he essentially left PSD to its own devices, forcing PNL to ally with them and support their governance. The love affair suddenly ended a few months ago, when PSD refused to allow Iohannis to run for Parliament in this electoral cycle, but it seems like they're back on. I mean, they surely promised him something in exchange for his cooperation, but given that his relations with the new PNL leader are somewhere between "vitriolic hatred" to "they'd kill each other on the spot", it's not like he has too many options for a new job following his Presidency ending.

I willing to bet money they will go after klaus legally

[Epaminondas]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

"Deep state" :eyeroll:
Would you try an explanation that sounds a bit less nutty and conspiratorial?

[RGM2609]

The judicial system has spoken, and it has followed Iohannis's "predictions": the parliamentary won't be annulled. Logically, I can't possibly find an explanation why all of the elections were compromised by Russian interference, and arrests are happening as we speak for actions related to both elections, yet only the presidential has to be retaken. And I am far from the only Romanian asking right now: why were some elections more compromised than others and why is everything happening just like the Oracle Iohannis predicts? Why is he, illegally, allowed to stay as President for six months past his tenure ending? Why did the altogether brilliant Constitutional Court decree that he, and he alone, can name the new government, even though he'll occupy the office illegally after December 21st? And the "whys" keep piling up, why was the election canceled on Friday despite the evidence being there since at least November 28th, why did they validate it on Monday only to cancel it on Friday, etc, etc?

This, everything PSD and Iohannis have done, will blow up in their faces, in our faces, and in the EU's and NATO's faces. It's literally unexplainable to the already furious Average Joe why everything ends up just like the deep state wants it to, why the rules apply to us and not to them. You must be blind not to see how everything stacks up so they get to appoint their government. Ciolacu flopped at the ballot box and Iohannis has no legitimacy to stay as President, yet they're both still in office, defying popular will.

The attempts to copy Viktor Orban during the past years are what largely brought us to Georgescu's rise, together with the tough economy of course. It's their fault and they won't be gone. Yes, Romanians are still, by and large, pro-EU even if gullible and easy targets for disinformation. But if Iohannis and Ciolacu keep pretending to be "pro-European" and saying they're doing this blatant power grab for EU's sake, they'll end up making the EU detested rather than themselves liked.

[RGM2609]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

"Deep state" :eyeroll:
Would you try an explanation that sounds a bit less nutty and conspiratorial?

Nah, try explaining it yourself if you don't like mine.

[CumbrianLefty]

There is such a thing as a deep state, just as there are such things as genuine conspiracies. But the use of both to explain pretty much everything, has made the concepts close to worthless.

[oldtimer]

For everyone new to this who wants to make sense of what is going on:

- PSD, helped by the secret services and the deep state (maybe even by Iohannis), invented and/or promoted multiple extremists, far-right candidates who they thought would be easy to beat in the second round: Simion, Sosoaca, Georgescu, and Terhes
- PSD then eliminated Sosoaca from the presidential race when they figured out she and Simion were splitting the far-right vote in half and there was a real risk for neither to make it
- Once Georgescu started rising in the private polls, and Simion started moderating his discourse and becoming a more dangerous opponent, PSD fully backed Georgescu and even lent his votes in the first round, as confirmed by multiple mayors
- ...bad luck, they lent so many votes to the far-right that they themselves missed the runoff. So they constantly sabotaged the only pro-EU candidate left and then decided to nullify the elections rather than have either of the two win
- Now they are lying to Romanians and people around the world about the grave Russian threat they saved us from. And fools are buying it and happy that PSD saved us from Putin and the fascists.
- PSD will now form the government and will continue this mess for as long as it takes until they win the Presidency and have total control.

Good night, Romania

"Deep state" :eyeroll:
Would you try an explanation that sounds a bit less nutty and conspiratorial?

I would like to suggest replacing "Deep State" with "Doing a Jaruzelski", a more eastern european thing.

I would define it as such: "Things are so bad, they drop the act"

[rob in cal]

Concerning the phenomenon of PSD mayors encouraging voters to support Georgescu in the first round, are there some good examples of where he performed really well in some PSD run towns and then did much worse in nearby towns that didn’t have a PSD mayor?

[KakyoinMemeHouse]

We need moderators to do a takeover of this thread from RGM's hands.

[Dereich]

The last possible thing this forum needs is to drive off people who actually know what is happening on the ground outside America (see: the first 30 pages of this thread) in favor of Americans who want to treat everything like an outgrowth of our own political squabbles. International Elections is a gem, the best part of Atlas. We must not ruin it.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

And if you're really concerned about biased international threads surely jaichind is the bigger offender.

[RGM2609]

Well, this was a stressful period. After spending my entire adult life involved in our politics in some capacity, I thought I'd seen it all, but no. These past few months were filled with constant nausea that Ciolacu would win, followed by complete horror at that neofascist Russian shill Georgescu rising out of nowhere. Then, there were all of these Court decisions, which, to my eye, are clear proof of democratic backsliding but are cheered on by a lot of people "on my side." So yeah, maybe my coverage has been somewhat more...emotional given all of the recent events.

Anyway, I think I'll take a mental health break from all of this insanity, which means I'll also stop updating this thread. Now I know what it's like to live in America lol. Thanks everyone, hope you learned some things from me as I sure did from all of you

[Storr]

The Politico EU article on the election overturn takes a predictably Politico matter of fact tone, despite the unprecedented events, except for the title: "Romanian election: What the hell is going on?"

In the understatement of the year: "The risk in the court’s decision is that more Romanian voters may now lose faith in the country’s political system."

[CumbrianLefty]

Well, this was a stressful period. After spending my entire adult life involved in our politics in some capacity, I thought I'd seen it all, but no. These past few months were filled with constant nausea that Ciolacu would win, followed by complete horror at that neofascist Russian shill Georgescu rising out of nowhere. Then, there were all of these Court decisions, which, to my eye, are clear proof of democratic backsliding but are cheered on by a lot of people "on my side." So yeah, maybe my coverage has been somewhat more...emotional given all of the recent events.

Anyway, I think I'll take a mental health break from all of this insanity, which means I'll also stop updating this thread. Now I know what it's like to live in America lol. Thanks everyone, hope you learned some things from me as I sure did from all of you

You are quite entitled to a break, but I hope you resume your observations on this thread fairly soon.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

I'm just saying, we shouldn't have a conspiracy theorist in charge of a thread for a whole country.

To tackle you head on, "Romania has a deep state" isn't a particularly fringe view though it rarely uses such vulgar Americanized language. Even among communist regimes the Securitate was brutal and all-powerful and like in every single Eastern European nation a "surprising" number of politicians and shady businessmen just happen to be former members of the secret police, and almost every wing of Romanian politics is still rife with former Communist bureaucrats and functionaries. And add to that the oligarch class who made their money from the shock therapy privatisations and are permanently indebted to the shady connections that granted their fortunes.
And if you insist the Slovakia thread is right there if you need to see a more blatant example of a literal mafia state, where it isn't just implied and we have literal wiretaps of Fico's corruption.

[Come the avarice]

The presence of simpletons like Flyersfan232 and jaichind in international threads is much more noxious than someone who knows what he's talking about, even if he does have a bit of an understandable bias.

[Mike88]

Government formation: PSD, PNL, USR and UDMR agree to form a coalition government.

https://twitter.com/business/status/1866587361477271919

Romania’s pro-European parties have reached a commitment to form a governing majority that cordons off the hard right and potentially endorses a single candidate for a rerun of the country’s annulled presidential election.

The ruling leftist Social Democrats won the most seats in the parliamentary election on 1 December, which also resulted in three ultranationalist and hard-right groupings, some with overt pro-Russian sympathies, winning more than a third of seats.

The parliamentary ballot was sandwiched in between two rounds of a presidential election, during which the far-right Nato-critic Călin Georgescu emerged from relative obscurity to become the shock frontrunner.

That prompted accusations of Russian meddling before the country’s top court annulled the presidential vote on Friday and said the entire process would need to be rerun.

The new government will need to come up with a new calendar for the presidential election, likely in the first part of 2025.

The outgoing president, Klaus Iohannis, who will stay on until a new president is sworn in, will nominate a prime minister. The current legislative term ends on 21 December.

On Monday, the Social Democrats, their current coalition partners the centre-right Liberals, the opposition centrist Save Romania Union and the ethnic Hungarian party agreed to quickly form a pro-European government.

“In the coming days, the four parties and representatives of national minorities will work on a common governing programme based on development and reforms which will consider the priorities of Romanian citizens,” a joint statement said.
(...)

[President Johnson]

EU has now launched a formal investigation into TikTok over this:

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1868982669591117986

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1869003671784108454

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-19/romanian-social-democrats-abruptly-withdraw-from-coalition-talks?embedded-checkout=true

"Romania’s Ruling Party Abruptly Quits Pro-EU Coalition Talks"

Romania’s political crisis deepened after the largest pro-European party abruptly withdrew from negotiations to form a coalition, opening the prospect of a weaker government to tackle the European Union’s widest budget deficit. The country’s stocks plunged. 

[#UnbanTender]

Ciolacu or we burn the country.

[jaichind]

https://snoop.ro/anaf-a-descoperit-ca-pnl-a-platit-o-campanie-care-l-a-promovat-masiv-pe-calin-georgescu-pe-tiktok/

"ANAF discovered that PNL paid for a campaign that massively promoted Călin Georgescu on TikTok"

[lfromnj]

We found the Russian money !