UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

You might think that, but have you heard anything Swinson has said since she became leader?

Yeah. It's obvious posturing for a Lib-Lab-Grn-SNP election with anyone non Momentum as PM, which is obviously the best realistic solution.

Other parties don't get to dictate to Labour who their leader should be.

Even if Corbyn stepped aside for some reason in that scenario, his successor would also be from the left. Because that is what the majority of the party currently wants.

Every party in a coalition has to make some sort of concession, and the Labour left won't be able to govern alone because that's not what the majority of the UK electorate currantly wants.

[Helsinkian]

So the left-wingers and liberals want to give the vote not only to 16-year-olds but also to EU nationals living in the UK. So I could move to the UK tomorrow and if there's a general election the day after my arrival I could vote? What's the sense in that? Seemingly it would make the whole institution of citizenship irrelevant: why would people even seek to become nationalized citizens if they can vote regardless?

[Shadows]

Why are people acting like the Lib-Dems matter? They had like 15 seats & will get less than 20 seats again, maybe even less than 15. They will never be able to dictate who will be the Labour leader. If they don't support a Corbyn led Lab-SNP-Green alliance they will essentially cause another GE (3 times in 3 years) & there will be 2 flanks - Lab-SNP-GREEN vs Tory/DUP.

All the smaller parties, SNP, GREEN are much more progressive & left wing than Labour/Corbyn. The Labour ordinary members are fully behind Corbyn. LibDems are essentially the B Team of Tories. They propped up Cameron & supported his tax cuts & welfare cuts & austerity agenda.

More the GE Campaign takes place, more the Lib-Dems will fall. They have got no future. Look @ how their voters (80%+) would prefer a Corbyn led Government than No Deal brexit & how their power hungry leaders like Swinson would like to stop it. Lib-Dem voters are quite liberal & not idealogically far from Labour. They have much MUCH more in common with Labour than the Tories.

[Shadows]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

SNP even in last election wanted to join a Corbyn Government & openly said they wanted to stop the Tories & would want to be part of a progressive alternative. SNP & GREENs both are very progressive & more liberal than Labour. Their ideology on many economic issues is more similar to Corbyn than the Blair "New Labour" model which they detest. I can easily see a Corbyn led Lab-SNP-GREEN combination as they are natural ideological allies but Lib-Dems have no ideology & are essentially now a home for Conservative & Labour Rebel Hard Remainers. They sided with Tories in government for 5 years & imposed tax cuts & austerity & welfare cuts & will do it again given the chance.

I can see Tories losing another 20-30 seats.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So BoJo is going to lose every battle but win the war. Congrats, everyone. Really played things well.

And yes, all the "opposition" parties failed their constituent, though none more egregiously and opportunistically than the LibDems.

[Tintrlvr]

So the left-wingers and liberals want to give the vote not only to 16-year-olds but also to EU nationals living in the UK. So I could move to the UK tomorrow and if there's a general election the day after my arrival I could vote? What's the sense in that? Seemingly it would make the whole institution of citizenship irrelevant: why would people even seek to become nationalized citizens if they can vote regardless?

You would have to be registered, which is required to be done in advance, so people who arrive the day before can't vote. The UK already allows European citizens who aren't UK citizens to vote in local government elections and European elections, so it's just general elections for which this would be a change. And, as noted, the UK also already allows Commonwealth citizens (and citizens of Ireland) who aren't UK citizens to vote in general elections, so it's not a new concept vis-a-vis general elections, either.

[Blair]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

This is pretty false from someone who somehow claims to be a blairite (although I remember seeing you advocated getting rid of social housing in the U.K. so....)

Labour MPs have opposed the meaningful votes 4 times, have supported a whole range of amendments that allowed a lot of good stuff to happen and have supported a second referendum. Sure it’s been long, slow and tedious but the PLP has done its job.

In regards to principles The SNP want independence and the Lib Dem’s want a route to relevance; opposing Brexit whilst having an election focused around one benefits both parties hugely.

[Zaybay]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

You might think that, but have you heard anything Swinson has said since she became leader?

Yeah. It's obvious posturing for a Lib-Lab-Grn-SNP election with anyone non Momentum as PM, which is obviously the best realistic solution.

Other parties don't get to dictate to Labour who their leader should be.

Even if Corbyn stepped aside for some reason in that scenario, his successor would also be from the left. Because that is what the majority of the party currently wants.

Every party in a coalition has to make some sort of concession, and the Labour left won't be able to govern alone because that's not what the majority of the UK electorate currantly wants.

This line of reasoning still doesnt make sense. Labour has no reason to not choose someone from the Left(especially considering much of the party/leadership/councils/etc. are now Labour Left). If the Lib Dems are making such ridiculous demands, than they must have won more than 100 seats.

[OSR stands with Israel]

So BoJo is going to lose every battle but win the war. Congrats, everyone. Really played things well.

And yes, all the "opposition" parties failed their constituent, though none more egregiously and opportunistically than the LibDems.

Simple the voters agree with Boris more than they do with the opposition party

[Antonio the Sixth]

So BoJo is going to lose every battle but win the war. Congrats, everyone. Really played things well.

And yes, all the "opposition" parties failed their constituent, though none more egregiously and opportunistically than the LibDems.

Simple the voters agree with Boris more than they do with the opposition party

37% do, as things currently stand.

[GoTfan]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

You might think that, but have you heard anything Swinson has said since she became leader?

Yeah. It's obvious posturing for a Lib-Lab-Grn-SNP election with anyone non Momentum as PM, which is obviously the best realistic solution.

Other parties don't get to dictate to Labour who their leader should be.

Even if Corbyn stepped aside for some reason in that scenario, his successor would also be from the left. Because that is what the majority of the party currently wants.

Every party in a coalition has to make some sort of concession, and the Labour left won't be able to govern alone because that's not what the majority of the UK electorate currantly wants.

Honestly I'm just waiting for you to scream that Corbyn's two successful leadership camlaigns were illegitimate.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

You might think that, but have you heard anything Swinson has said since she became leader?

Yeah. It's obvious posturing for a Lib-Lab-Grn-SNP election with anyone non Momentum as PM, which is obviously the best realistic solution.

Other parties don't get to dictate to Labour who their leader should be.

Even if Corbyn stepped aside for some reason in that scenario, his successor would also be from the left. Because that is what the majority of the party currently wants.

Every party in a coalition has to make some sort of concession, and the Labour left won't be able to govern alone because that's not what the majority of the UK electorate currantly wants.

Honestly I'm just waiting for you to scream that Corbyn's two successful leadership camlaigns were illegitimate.

Seriously? Of course I don't think that, but if Labour ends up with a minority (but Lib/Lab/SNP/Grn is a majority, of course) and they want to form a government, then they'll have to make some concessions, which probably means Corbyn isn't PM. That's a perfectly reasonable view to hold.

[pikachu]

kind of love how theresa may’s resigned, the tories managed to go through a full leadership election, and now there will be a full ge campaign/election in the same span of time between the first and sixth democratic debates

[GoTfan]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

You might think that, but have you heard anything Swinson has said since she became leader?

Yeah. It's obvious posturing for a Lib-Lab-Grn-SNP election with anyone non Momentum as PM, which is obviously the best realistic solution.

Other parties don't get to dictate to Labour who their leader should be.

Even if Corbyn stepped aside for some reason in that scenario, his successor would also be from the left. Because that is what the majority of the party currently wants.

Every party in a coalition has to make some sort of concession, and the Labour left won't be able to govern alone because that's not what the majority of the UK electorate currantly wants.

Honestly I'm just waiting for you to scream that Corbyn's two successful leadership camlaigns were illegitimate.

Seriously? Of course I don't think that, but if Labour ends up with a minority (but Lib/Lab/SNP/Grn is a majority, of course) and they want to form a government, then they'll have to make some concessions, which probably means Corbyn isn't PM. That's a perfectly reasonable view to hold.

The only way they could dictate the leader is if the Lib Dems win 80-100 seats.The Greens are to the left of Labour anyway, and I'm not sure the SNP would ally with anyone not willing to have a second independence referendum.

[Omega21]

I am starting a Go Fund Me to buy a giant saw so that we can saw off the Island and send them North.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

Hey guys? Neither of you want to see a Conservative majority (granted, the Lib Dems don’t want to see a Labour majority either).

Is there a chance of Labour-SNP-LD somehow getting a majority? And if so, would the SNP ever consider joining a government? I can’t imagine the Lib Dems want to govern with the Conservatives for a long time yet, so I am curious about what kind of coalition could possibly happen.

You might think that, but have you heard anything Swinson has said since she became leader?

Yeah. It's obvious posturing for a Lib-Lab-Grn-SNP election with anyone non Momentum as PM, which is obviously the best realistic solution.

Other parties don't get to dictate to Labour who their leader should be.

Even if Corbyn stepped aside for some reason in that scenario, his successor would also be from the left. Because that is what the majority of the party currently wants.

Every party in a coalition has to make some sort of concession, and the Labour left won't be able to govern alone because that's not what the majority of the UK electorate currantly wants.

Honestly I'm just waiting for you to scream that Corbyn's two successful leadership camlaigns were illegitimate.

Seriously? Of course I don't think that, but if Labour ends up with a minority (but Lib/Lab/SNP/Grn is a majority, of course) and they want to form a government, then they'll have to make some concessions, which probably means Corbyn isn't PM. That's a perfectly reasonable view to hold.

The only way they could dictate the leader is if the Lib Dems win 80-100 seats.The Greens are to the left of Labour anyway, and I'm not sure the SNP would ally with anyone not willing to have a second independence referendum.

The greens will have one seat. Basically, there are two possible outcomes in this election: Lib-Lab (+SNP?) and Conservative (+DUP/BXP if necessary). Nether of these outcomes allow for PM Corbyn.

[Omega21]

So what happens if there is a Conservative-Brexit Majority?
 
Ok, maybe a Conservative PM, but the Brexit party wouldn't allow his deal to pass and would go for no deal, so we would be in the same position as now.

[Zaybay]

So what happens if there is a Conservative-Brexit Majority?
 
Ok, maybe a Conservative PM, but the Brexit party wouldn't allow his deal to pass and would go for no deal, so we would be in the same position as now.

The problem is that the Brexit Party likely wouldnt even have any members of parliament for them to have influence. And even if they were going to pickup seats, the amount of vote splitting that would allow for the BP to get enough seats to be relevant(lets say 15) would almost certainly kill the Conservatives and give Corbyn the premiership.

[Continential]

So what happens if there is a Conservative-Brexit Majority?
 
Ok, maybe a Conservative PM, but the Brexit party wouldn't allow his deal to pass and would go for no deal, so we would be in the same position as now.

The problem is that the Brexit Party likely wouldnt even have any members of parliament for them to have influence. And even if they were going to pickup seats, the amount of vote splitting that would allow for the BP to get enough seats to be relevant(lets say 15) would almost certainly kill the Conservatives and give Corbyn the premiership.

I think that the Brexit party will be UKIP 2.0

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Is Bercow's successor getting elected today?

[IceAgeComing]

Bercow will see out this term: there's absolutely no point in this Parliament electing the next speaker when its being dissolved in five days.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, that would make sense (and has happened before, eg at the 1983 and 1992 GEs)

That opens the admittedly fairly remote prospect of the current front runner to replace him (Lindsay Hoyle) losing his seat if the Tories have an exceptionally good election.

[EastAnglianLefty]

Is Bercow's successor getting elected today?

Reports say it'll happen on Monday - there have been suggestions that if the outcome of the general election isn't decisive, the last thing you'd want is to have to worry about electing a Speaker as well.

[CumbrianLefty]

Is Bercow's successor getting elected today?

Reports say it'll happen on Monday - there have been suggestions that if the outcome of the general election isn't decisive, the last thing you'd want is to have to worry about electing a Speaker as well.

Yes, that seems to be the case. Not convinced personally.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Just saw that UKIP’s leader resigned. AGAIN. Party needs to just disband.