AOC says migrants forced to drink toilet water after tense border visit

[Fuzzy Bear]

A group of people are being concentrated in a camp. They're concentration camps.

Since every camp is a concentration of people, all camps are concentration camps. Don't send your kids to summer concentration camp!

The key distinction is one is voluntary and the other is not. Don't be an idiot.

Yes, holding camps for illegal migrants are 100% voluntary. They chose to invade the United States and risk being detained in one.

The ones who came to the border seeking asylum are not illegal migrants.

The ones there who are asylum seekers are people whose claims for asylum that have been found not legitimate, yet they refused to leave the United States.

That's fake news, Fuzzy. Citation needed.

Because your prior citation from a right-wing anti-immigration groups sucked. And in terms of some people not showing up for court, we are talking about less than 1 and 100 under Obama era Administration practice

I need a citation for your stats.

[T'Chenka]

A group of people are being concentrated in a camp. They're concentration camps.

Since every camp is a concentration of people, all camps are concentration camps. Don't send your kids to summer concentration camp!

The key distinction is one is voluntary and the other is not. Don't be an idiot.

Yes, holding camps for illegal migrants are 100% voluntary. They chose to invade the United States and risk being detained in one.

The ones who came to the border seeking asylum are not illegal migrants.

The ones there who are asylum seekers are people whose claims for asylum that have been found not legitimate, yet they refused to leave the United States.

That's fake news, Fuzzy. Citation needed.

Because your prior citation from a right-wing anti-immigration groups sucked. And in terms of some people not showing up for court, we are talking about less than 1 and 100 under Obama era Administration practice

I need a citation for your stats.

Every single time I've witnessed people asking you for stats, you ignore them or post misleading and miscontextualized right wing pieces with "facts" in them. You need to start providing others with REAL citations, data, evidence, or you don't deserve to receive it when you ask for it. Ideally we are all sharing ideas and evidence and facts here, not witholding them so we can rant about our alternate realities to each other.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I suppose I don’t expect this to mean anything to Fuzzy, but:

Leviticus 19:33-34 New International Version (NIV)

33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Also:

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-attend-immigration-court-hearings

Recent data shows that asylum seekers continue to appear for immigration court proceedings at high rates. In fiscal year 2018, Department of Justice (DOJ) figures show that 89 percent of all asylum applicants attended their final court hearing to receive a decision on their application. When families and unaccompanied children have access to legal representation, the rate of compliance with immigration court obligations is nearly 98 percent.[\quote]

[T'Chenka]

I suppose I don’t expect this to mean anything to Fuzzy, but:

Leviticus 19:33-34 New International Version (NIV)

33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

[DavidB.]

Still not a concentration camp as long as they can voluntarily leave and chose not to. If these were actual concentration camps, they would use the first opportunity to get out.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Yeah David...those toddlers are just gonna mosey on back to Honduras without their parents and vice versa.

We don’t need your lazy talking points.  Face it:  you care far more about the animals you don’t eat than the human children you see rent from their parents and kept in cages where they are often subject to abuse.  If that’s not a telltale sign of a fascist, I don’t know what is.

[DavidB.]

Yeah David...those toddlers are just gonna mosey on back to Honduras without their parents and vice versa.

No, they should go there together with their parents.

The situation at the border is regrettable, but caused by the massive and unsustainable influx of immigrants. America needs to hermetically close its border, process asylum requests in third countries (and should not allow any asylum seekers who already stay in safe countries), and swiftly but humanely deport illegals while keeping families together.

[fhtagn]

When people break out the cherry picked Bible quotes to go after Fuzzy...

[lfromnj]

I suppose I don’t expect this to mean anything to Fuzzy, but:

Leviticus 19:33-34 New International Version (NIV)

33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

What if I dislike the refugee hordes and the hicks?

[T'Chenka]

When people break out the cherry picked Bible quotes to go after Fuzzy...

It's less about winning the argument itself than it is about proving the person you're arguing with is an ignorant hypocrite that shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Slander and/or Libel]

When people break out the cherry picked Bible quotes to go after Fuzzy...

1) You don’t know anything about my religious beliefs, and that image is not a reflection of them.

2) Even if it were, it’s not disingenuous to ask people like Fuzzy, who believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, to explain this apparent contradiction on his own terms.

[HisGrace]

When people break out the cherry picked Bible quotes to go after Fuzzy...

It's perfectly valid to make an argument that I wouldn't find persuasive because the person I'm arguing with might. If they're actually a Christian it seems like they would care what Jesus says about moral issues in the Bible.

This really should go without saying if your goal in arguing is actually to try and change someone's mind and not to just OWN or DESTROY them for LOL's.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

In any case, those are horrible conditions. The only question is how widespread they are. And the only possible answer is not abolishing ICE or whatever, but increasing funding so migrants can actually be processed in humane conditions.

That's not really a solution when Trump and his supporters WANT the conditions to be as bad as possible as some kind of "deterrent."

(And unlike our dear friend, I'm not just making up a motivation for the other side and declaring it to be fact. Trump has actually said this.)

Then why did the Democrats vote against ICE Funding that would have alleviated this?

The reason, obviously, is because they want to (A) abolish ICE (long term) and (B) keep their "concentration camp" narrative going (short term) to gain support for the abolition of ICE, an idea that does not have majority public support at present.

The Democrats also hope that conditions become so bad in these camps that a Federal Judge will order the release of large numbers of detainees on some sort of bond or release on their own recognizance prior to some sort of future Court action for their situations.  They won't say this, of course, but why else would they vote against funding designated to alleviate the conditions in ICE Detention Centers.

The reason for the problematic conditions is the overwhelming number of persons that have illegally entered America with the encouragement of the political left in America.  Our ICE Detention system was not problematic until the immigration issue became one where Democrats actively celebrated illegal immigrants.  (They had them on stage at the 2016 DNC; don't tell me that this isn't so.) 

Additional funding wouldn’t alleviate this because this is what the Trump administration WANTS TO DO.

He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY.

When did he say this?   Does that make it official policy?   You think if Congress passed funding for this purpose CBP wouldn't use it?

[7,052,770]

When people break out the cherry picked Bible quotes to go after Fuzzy...

What non-Christian are you referring to? No one in particular?

[Slander and/or Libel]

In any case, those are horrible conditions. The only question is how widespread they are. And the only possible answer is not abolishing ICE or whatever, but increasing funding so migrants can actually be processed in humane conditions.

That's not really a solution when Trump and his supporters WANT the conditions to be as bad as possible as some kind of "deterrent."

(And unlike our dear friend, I'm not just making up a motivation for the other side and declaring it to be fact. Trump has actually said this.)

Then why did the Democrats vote against ICE Funding that would have alleviated this?

The reason, obviously, is because they want to (A) abolish ICE (long term) and (B) keep their "concentration camp" narrative going (short term) to gain support for the abolition of ICE, an idea that does not have majority public support at present.

The Democrats also hope that conditions become so bad in these camps that a Federal Judge will order the release of large numbers of detainees on some sort of bond or release on their own recognizance prior to some sort of future Court action for their situations.  They won't say this, of course, but why else would they vote against funding designated to alleviate the conditions in ICE Detention Centers.

The reason for the problematic conditions is the overwhelming number of persons that have illegally entered America with the encouragement of the political left in America.  Our ICE Detention system was not problematic until the immigration issue became one where Democrats actively celebrated illegal immigrants.  (They had them on stage at the 2016 DNC; don't tell me that this isn't so.) 

Additional funding wouldn’t alleviate this because this is what the Trump administration WANTS TO DO.

He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY.

When did he say this?   Does that make it official policy?   You think if Congress passed funding for this purpose CBP wouldn't use it?

I can’t find it right now, but he recently tweeted something like what blue avatars here have been posting, that migrants can avoid this treatment by simply not coming. The implication is that he’s satisfied to have those poor conditions serve as a deterrent.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

In any case, those are horrible conditions. The only question is how widespread they are. And the only possible answer is not abolishing ICE or whatever, but increasing funding so migrants can actually be processed in humane conditions.

That's not really a solution when Trump and his supporters WANT the conditions to be as bad as possible as some kind of "deterrent."

(And unlike our dear friend, I'm not just making up a motivation for the other side and declaring it to be fact. Trump has actually said this.)

Then why did the Democrats vote against ICE Funding that would have alleviated this?

The reason, obviously, is because they want to (A) abolish ICE (long term) and (B) keep their "concentration camp" narrative going (short term) to gain support for the abolition of ICE, an idea that does not have majority public support at present.

The Democrats also hope that conditions become so bad in these camps that a Federal Judge will order the release of large numbers of detainees on some sort of bond or release on their own recognizance prior to some sort of future Court action for their situations.  They won't say this, of course, but why else would they vote against funding designated to alleviate the conditions in ICE Detention Centers.

The reason for the problematic conditions is the overwhelming number of persons that have illegally entered America with the encouragement of the political left in America.  Our ICE Detention system was not problematic until the immigration issue became one where Democrats actively celebrated illegal immigrants.  (They had them on stage at the 2016 DNC; don't tell me that this isn't so.) 

Additional funding wouldn’t alleviate this because this is what the Trump administration WANTS TO DO.

He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY.

When did he say this?   Does that make it official policy?   You think if Congress passed funding for this purpose CBP wouldn't use it?

I can’t find it right now, but he recently tweeted something like what blue avatars here have been posting, that migrants can avoid this treatment by simply not coming. The implication is that he’s satisfied to have those poor conditions serve as a deterrent.

in other words a pretty far cry from "He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY." much less evidence of it being official policy.

[Slander and/or Libel]

In any case, those are horrible conditions. The only question is how widespread they are. And the only possible answer is not abolishing ICE or whatever, but increasing funding so migrants can actually be processed in humane conditions.

That's not really a solution when Trump and his supporters WANT the conditions to be as bad as possible as some kind of "deterrent."

(And unlike our dear friend, I'm not just making up a motivation for the other side and declaring it to be fact. Trump has actually said this.)

Then why did the Democrats vote against ICE Funding that would have alleviated this?

The reason, obviously, is because they want to (A) abolish ICE (long term) and (B) keep their "concentration camp" narrative going (short term) to gain support for the abolition of ICE, an idea that does not have majority public support at present.

The Democrats also hope that conditions become so bad in these camps that a Federal Judge will order the release of large numbers of detainees on some sort of bond or release on their own recognizance prior to some sort of future Court action for their situations.  They won't say this, of course, but why else would they vote against funding designated to alleviate the conditions in ICE Detention Centers.

The reason for the problematic conditions is the overwhelming number of persons that have illegally entered America with the encouragement of the political left in America.  Our ICE Detention system was not problematic until the immigration issue became one where Democrats actively celebrated illegal immigrants.  (They had them on stage at the 2016 DNC; don't tell me that this isn't so.) 

Additional funding wouldn’t alleviate this because this is what the Trump administration WANTS TO DO.

He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY.

When did he say this?   Does that make it official policy?   You think if Congress passed funding for this purpose CBP wouldn't use it?

I can’t find it right now, but he recently tweeted something like what blue avatars here have been posting, that migrants can avoid this treatment by simply not coming. The implication is that he’s satisfied to have those poor conditions serve as a deterrent.

in other words a pretty far cry from "He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY." much less evidence of it being official policy.

His people, and he, have said that conditions are fine, that it’s like a summer camp, that it’s better than these people have ever been treated, and also that people can avoid their treatment if they just stay home. Sure, you can quibble about whether this is explicit policy or something that has emerged, but it’s clear that the current situation of torture camps for children satisfies them just fine.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

In any case, those are horrible conditions. The only question is how widespread they are. And the only possible answer is not abolishing ICE or whatever, but increasing funding so migrants can actually be processed in humane conditions.

That's not really a solution when Trump and his supporters WANT the conditions to be as bad as possible as some kind of "deterrent."

(And unlike our dear friend, I'm not just making up a motivation for the other side and declaring it to be fact. Trump has actually said this.)

Then why did the Democrats vote against ICE Funding that would have alleviated this?

The reason, obviously, is because they want to (A) abolish ICE (long term) and (B) keep their "concentration camp" narrative going (short term) to gain support for the abolition of ICE, an idea that does not have majority public support at present.

The Democrats also hope that conditions become so bad in these camps that a Federal Judge will order the release of large numbers of detainees on some sort of bond or release on their own recognizance prior to some sort of future Court action for their situations.  They won't say this, of course, but why else would they vote against funding designated to alleviate the conditions in ICE Detention Centers.

The reason for the problematic conditions is the overwhelming number of persons that have illegally entered America with the encouragement of the political left in America.  Our ICE Detention system was not problematic until the immigration issue became one where Democrats actively celebrated illegal immigrants.  (They had them on stage at the 2016 DNC; don't tell me that this isn't so.) 

Additional funding wouldn’t alleviate this because this is what the Trump administration WANTS TO DO.

He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY.

When did he say this?   Does that make it official policy?   You think if Congress passed funding for this purpose CBP wouldn't use it?

I can’t find it right now, but he recently tweeted something like what blue avatars here have been posting, that migrants can avoid this treatment by simply not coming. The implication is that he’s satisfied to have those poor conditions serve as a deterrent.

in other words a pretty far cry from "He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY." much less evidence of it being official policy.

His people, and he, have said that conditions are fine, that it’s like a summer camp, that it’s better than these people have ever been treated, and also that people can avoid their treatment if they just stay home. Sure, you can quibble about whether this is explicit policy or something that has emerged, but it’s clear that the current situation of torture camps for children satisfies them just fine.

"Satisfies them"?   Who is "them"? 

[Slander and/or Libel]

In any case, those are horrible conditions. The only question is how widespread they are. And the only possible answer is not abolishing ICE or whatever, but increasing funding so migrants can actually be processed in humane conditions.

That's not really a solution when Trump and his supporters WANT the conditions to be as bad as possible as some kind of "deterrent."

(And unlike our dear friend, I'm not just making up a motivation for the other side and declaring it to be fact. Trump has actually said this.)

Then why did the Democrats vote against ICE Funding that would have alleviated this?

The reason, obviously, is because they want to (A) abolish ICE (long term) and (B) keep their "concentration camp" narrative going (short term) to gain support for the abolition of ICE, an idea that does not have majority public support at present.

The Democrats also hope that conditions become so bad in these camps that a Federal Judge will order the release of large numbers of detainees on some sort of bond or release on their own recognizance prior to some sort of future Court action for their situations.  They won't say this, of course, but why else would they vote against funding designated to alleviate the conditions in ICE Detention Centers.

The reason for the problematic conditions is the overwhelming number of persons that have illegally entered America with the encouragement of the political left in America.  Our ICE Detention system was not problematic until the immigration issue became one where Democrats actively celebrated illegal immigrants.  (They had them on stage at the 2016 DNC; don't tell me that this isn't so.) 

Additional funding wouldn’t alleviate this because this is what the Trump administration WANTS TO DO.

He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY.

When did he say this?   Does that make it official policy?   You think if Congress passed funding for this purpose CBP wouldn't use it?

I can’t find it right now, but he recently tweeted something like what blue avatars here have been posting, that migrants can avoid this treatment by simply not coming. The implication is that he’s satisfied to have those poor conditions serve as a deterrent.

in other words a pretty far cry from "He’s SAID THIS. EXPLICITLY." much less evidence of it being official policy.

His people, and he, have said that conditions are fine, that it’s like a summer camp, that it’s better than these people have ever been treated, and also that people can avoid their treatment if they just stay home. Sure, you can quibble about whether this is explicit policy or something that has emerged, but it’s clear that the current situation of torture camps for children satisfies them just fine.

"Satisfies them"?   Who is "them"? 

Administration officials who want to have fewer brown people in the country. Do try to keep up.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The policy that you claim amounts to "wanting fewer brown people in the country" by unnamed administration officials is, at the level of interaction with immigrants, being implemented disproportionately by brown people.  So if you expect people to believe your claim that more funds for a chronically underfunded activity wouldn't make a difference in implementation, you need to show some evidence that it is being treated as a sustained policy from top to bottom and not just some tweet reflective of what side of the bed the President woke up on in any given day.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Pretending not to know that there are racist immigration hardliners in this administration, and that we all know who they are, would be maddening if it wasn’t just so boring.

[NOVA Green]

Apparently someone else experienced different conditions: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/immigration-border-facility-aoc-hispanic

“We found no soiled diapers, no deplorable conditions and no lack of basic necessities,” Rodriguez remarked, adding he specifically asked border agents if they staged the facility in response to the negative press. “They unequivocally denied it — we were witnessing the identical conditions the attorneys saw when they toured the facility days earlier."

In fact, some told him the sources from whom the negative coverage originated “never toured the areas of the facility that we toured” and speculated they might have had political motivations.

Fox News called up the facility: "Hey guys, can we send some blindly faithful Republican pastors to you in a day or two to say the Democrats are liars, and can you clean the place up real good between now and then? We can own the libs while you get the media off your back. Win win."

All the liberal representatives from the first trip collectively lied as a political conspiracy? Some of these women are Bernie progressives, not Republican swamp monsters. They actually have integrity. This conspiracy theory is laughable and sad.

Nowhere does it say that they are Republicans. Also this is a pastor who's battled with Trump over immigration. He also advised Obama on immigration reform.

“I read the reports, saw the news clips. I just wanted to see what was actually happening in order to better enable our efforts to find a fair and a just solution to our broken immigration system," Rodriguez, who has advised President Trump and both Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush on immigration reform, noted. “To my surprise, I saw something drastically different from the stories I’ve been hearing in our national discourse. Even as a veteran of immigration advocacy in the U.S., I was shocked at the misinformation of the crisis at the border."

The pastors left encouraged by the commitment and dedication of America’s Border Patrol and immigration officers, “many of which are Latinos, by the way.” He said one emotional Border Patrol agent turned to him and said, referring to the vilification: “Pastor Sam, what they’re saying about us is completely false. We care about these kids and have a passion for our calling.”

Pastor Carlos Moran, NHCLC board member and immigrant, said, “we, as evangelical leaders that serve in different segments, are very committed to helping children regardless of their status and we commend those officers that are trying their very best to serve and fulfill their duty at the border. However, we do call on our political leaders to set aside their personal agendas and begin focusing on resolving this immigration crisis.”

“What's heart-wrenching is that we have both Republicans and Democrats alike in Congress, who can't come together for the purpose of doing the right thing and finding a solution to our immigration crisis,” he said. “Please, President Trump, please White House, work with the Republicans and the Democrats [and] please, please, please, please, Nancy Pelosi, Kevin McCarthy, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, please come together to solve this crisis, immediately.”

Also it's hilarious that you think any current politician has integrity.

Bolded relevant quote:

Yes it is absolutely correct that many of the Border Patrol Officers on the Rio Grande border are Latino and not necessarily huge fans of what they see in these "detention facilities".

Decent paying jobs are hard to find in South Tejas border areas, let alone Federal Union jobs with all of the attendant perks when it comes to Federal retirement benefits and the like.

We are not talking about a privatized prison in Texas, and the vast majority of those working at these facilities are not racist KKK members, let alone sadists that deliberately torture and hurt others.

We are talking about a workforce that is heavily Mexican-American, many of whom with US Military service records, largely Catholic frequently drawn from local communities with deep roots in the Rio Grande Valley when the "Borderlands" was simply a place where families would visit each other on both sides of the border without any walls or passport controls.

This is a *political crisis* caused by decades of US Foreign Policy decisions in Central America by Democratic and Republican political leaders alike, combined with slashing funding for asylum seekers starting under Reagan.

It is no wonder that the Faith based community, including many evangelicals are starting to speak up on this issue..... Evangelical Protestant missionary activity in Central America has shifted the composition of Central American immigration to the US, where now some of highest % of Protestant immigrants from the countries where the "push-pull" factor is most evident.

Why do people leave their native land and family network?      (Push)

Why do people choose to seek a better opportunity?                (Pull)

Obviously one must ask the question as to why US Immigration quotas are still set by Country, rather than by the status of the asylum seeker's case?

In Cold War Policy, there were only a handful of "asylum seekers" allowed from Salvador / Guatemala, and Honduras (Fascist strong-men Juntas) vs many more from countries such as Cuba / Nicaragua  (Fleeing Communist oppression!).

I don't blame the workers involved.... most of whom are likely trying to do the best job they can with limited resources that still have to go home to their family when they got off-shift and talk to their spouse and kids and answer the question: "Daddy how was work today?"

I blame a broken system, and these types of topics remind me of some 30-35 Years ago when the Central American Solidarity Movement was at it's peak....

My 3rd Generation Grandparents on my Fathers side would turn over in their grave watching stories like this treatment of immigrants leaving the "Old Country" from humble means to seek opportunity in America....

Here is a snippet from one of my favorite bands The Pogues---- Song "Thousands Are Sailing", which I own multiple versions of.....

The island, it is silent now
But the ghosts still haunt the waves
And the torch lights up a famished man
Who fortune could not save
Did you work upon the railroads?
Did you rid the streets of crime?
Were your dollars from the White House?
Were they from the five and dime?
Did the old songs taunt or cheer you
And did they still make you cry?
Did you count the months and years
Or did your teardrops quickly dry?
Ah, no, says he, 'twas not to be
On a coffin ship, I came here
And I never even got so far
That they could change my name
Thousands are sailing
Across the western ocean
To a land of opportunity
That some of them will never see
Fortune prevailing
Across the western ocean
Their bellies full, their spirits free
They'll break the chains of poverty

Apologies for quoting myself, but breaking news today from Border Patrol Officers working in the facility, show that workers in the facility reported it to the "top brass", but there was no action.

Now, we have Border Patrol officers that are essentially "whistle blowers" reporting on unsafe and inhumane conditions inside these "Detention Facilities".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/06/us/migrants-border-patrol-clint.html

As, I stated I suspected it would not be long before the Faith Based Community would mobilize on this topic....

Mike Pence is now going to the border....

My Father is a White Evangelical Christian, and I have had family members doing missionary work in Latin America.

Regardless of how those on this thread chose to defend what is going on, (And I don't see it as just a DEM-REP issue), these types are policies are not in the moral compass of America as most of us understand our own country.

Should my ancestors from Ireland have been turned away in New York Harbor because of poverty and oppression in Ireland?

Should Jewish refugees from Nazism (and potential deportation from Fascist Nations) been turned away in New York?

Unless America addresses the push/pull factors, it's increasingly looking like we are a self-centered nation, morally bankrupt, and has compromised all of our ideals, simply because it's so much easier to beat up on the less fortunate fleeing oppression, than it is to look at *WHY* people are willing to make such a desperate journey. (If you think it's all about the money, you are wrong).

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Pretending not to know that there are racist immigration hardliners in this administration, and that we all know who they are, would be maddening if it wasn’t just so boring.

That's a very clever way of not being on the record and thus protect your half-formed hypothesis from scrutiny.

What's maddening is people intent on ignoring all complexity as to the source of a problem and its solution due to their TDS.

[Badger]

When people break out the cherry picked Bible quotes to go after Fuzzy...

WTF?