Congratulations Labor Party, every single one of you endorsed corruption!

[fhtagn]

Honestly, I don't have much at stake here. But, I voted for YT and some Feds for House, but this is just unacceptable. I expect more from the Federalists in the house then trying to paralyze a government by stealing things from the playbook of John Adams for goodness sake. Fhtagn if you're going to try to obstruct do a better thing for the community and resign, that'll send a better message then this childish attempt to hold onto fleeing power, act like an adult, not a child.

I've done more for this game than most of the current Labor caucus in the house, for the record. But hey, if you see nothing wrong with a caucus that wants to do no work and have an issue with someone that is keeping Congress active, you do you.

Also, I'm not a Fed. A little research would clear that up for you

[Pericles]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

[fhtagn]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The real idiocy is expecting to get away with this and thinking this is acceptable behavior that will not harm the game. The proper response is not to personally attack Wulfric but to attack his arguments but you cannot win on the arguments since the truth is very clear here.

I would say this is true but it's also Wulfric so...

Wulfric's intelligence is underrated imo, he has made mistakes and isn't perfect but who is? He is a constructive member of the game and while you can disagree with him he does often have a valid point so I really do think he should be treated with more respect.

Nothing about his point was valid. If you'd like more proof, I'll even provide you with some screenshots of a rare convo with Yankee:



I do not follow the Feds, the Feds do not follow me.

Idc at this point whether only the three feds coordinated or all four of you did. Schemes aside, point is the queue is clogged and in order for the majority to get anything done we have to change things up.

[fhtagn]

The real idiocy is expecting to get away with this and thinking this is acceptable behavior that will not harm the game. The proper response is not to personally attack Wulfric but to attack his arguments but you cannot win on the arguments since the truth is very clear here.

I would say this is true but it's also Wulfric so...

Wulfric's intelligence is underrated imo, he has made mistakes and isn't perfect but who is? He is a constructive member of the game and while you can disagree with him he does often have a valid point so I really do think he should be treated with more respect.

Nothing about his point was valid. If you'd like more proof, I'll even provide you with some screenshots of a rare convo with Yankee:



I do not follow the Feds, the Feds do not follow me.

Idc at this point whether only the three feds coordinated or all four of you did. Schemes aside, point is the queue is clogged and in order for the majority to get anything done we have to change things up.

Or if YE is a competent speaker and picks a competent deputy speaker, the queue won't be a problem. Pericles and I managed just fine with a large queue in the 13th Congress.

If you dont think YE can handle it, you might want to reconsider who you pick as speaker.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

You're all wrong.

Partisanship and obstruction makes the game more fun.
This is a political game.

LEINAD!

Run for the Chamber again and let us do some fun things you promised!

FUN THINGS!
FUN THINGS!
FUN THINGS!

[Pericles]

If I were YE, I wouldn't appreciate you making his job significantly harder not for good reason but bad faith obstructionist shenanigans. While YE and I have had our differences I sympathize with him having to deal with you and potentially other minority party Representatives who decide to put party and obstructionism ahead of country.

[fhtagn]

If I were YE, I wouldn't appreciate you making his job significantly harder not for good reason but bad faith obstructionist shenanigans. While YE and I have had our differences I sympathize with him having to deal with you and potentially other minority party Representatives who decide to put party and obstructionism ahead of country.

Do yourself a favor and learn to read, Peri. Every bill I submitted was one that I planned to introduce or reintroduce. And I still have plenty more I plan to introduce.

If he can't handle a busy Congress, he doesn't have to run for Speaker.

I happen to think he's a big boy and can manage just fine. It's a shame you don't have any faith in him. Speaks pretty poorly for the Labor caucus if that's the case.

[Adam Griffin]

If I were YE, I wouldn't appreciate you making his job significantly harder not for good reason but bad faith obstructionist shenanigans. While YE and I have had our differences I sympathize with him having to deal with you and potentially other minority party Representatives who decide to put party and obstructionism ahead of country.

I think I can speak for everybody when I say we all sympathize with each other over having to put up with fhtagn.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Adam Griffin]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Adam Griffin]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

To provide some context to the leaked quote above, there was a presumption on the part of Labor based on a really old quote from 2017 that the ACP was being directed from the Federalist Party HQ and that I had to use this to reign fhtagn in or something bad would happen and this was not disclosed to me at the time and the person communicating this to me didn't even know what that was even or what I was suppose to do.  Rather incompetent, but with things as they are and my stress level as it is from RL, you can understand why I was pissed off at this.

Ironically Labor did the same thing to me, as Fhtagn did to me right before she left the Feds. Demand I do something beyond my power with no means to bring it about and no concrete ideas on how to do it.

The reality is I don't control Fhtagn and several hours later, they realized this.

[Adam Griffin]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

The most important thing is to make clear that this obstructionist behavior is wrong, not who exactly was involved at every stage.

That said, while I deeply respect Yankee it's clear he doesn't have full control over the Federalist Party and perhaps by necessity has a hands off style of leadership, so even if Yankee isn't involved the Federalist Party and key members of it may still be involved.

Ok? I'm not a Federalist so this still doesn't apply to me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So the fun question is how long do those images survive Lumine.

[Former President tack50]

Ok, I will speak against these tactics of obstruction. I would argue the corrupt ones here are the representatives who clogged up the House queue in order to avoid most (all?) Labor legislation from being discussed.

We had a similar-ish problem in Lincoln reciently when SNJC discovered we had a filibuster-like system in the region where a single representative or a handful could freeze a bill in its tracks.

Unlike here though, SNJC was rightfully shunned and the amendment to get rid of the regional filibuster was passed almost unaniously, with bipartisan support, with every opposition Councillor voting for it.

This quote in particular by ASV (not exactly a partisan Laborite) is a very enlightening one and one that I feel applies just as much for the House of Representatives as it does for the Lincoln Council

The Filibuster is dead! Huzzah!!!

It is a sad day for this region. We have today, told the minority, that their voices do not matter. We have paved the way for far-right and far-left legislation. It is our solemn duty to bring back the filibuster, immediately. All abolishing the filibuster does is eliminate the need for compromise. Now, everyone will become a hyper-partisan. We will all run from the center and now vote the party line. This law is absolutely atrocious and will be a disaster. I urge us to consider repealing part of this law, to preserve the tradition of compromise and centrism.

The majority has a right to pass legislation. The people voted for a Labor majority, they voted for Labor's legislative program. Labor has a mandate to implement their policies.
The minority has ever right to attempt to water down legislation, but the minority has no right to obstruct the will of the people.

I will also add, do we really want to bring the dysfunctional manners of RL into Atlasia? I most definitely do not.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Why is everyone blaming fhtagn or claiming she coordinated something? I wrote the bulk of the damn bills (which are 100% legitimate) and asked people to sponsor because im not a Senator anymore. If i were Id dump them all myself because that's how my bill writing works ... binge writing. This is like the 5-6 time weve had preloaded queues and every other time doing so was productive and praised by everyone. We are approaching the 1 year anniversary of the 13th session where whe averaged just shy of 1 bill passed per day the entire session... 59 things jointly passed in 2 months. At this point weve had 2/3rds of house members (including lefty coalition members) preload multiple bills ... that guarantees content. Not to mention the rule of 2 and Presidential slots still exist. I mean, multiple Griff voters were talking about how the TNF bills they planned on resurrecting the upcoming session... this isn't any different except the bulk of these bills arent 5 years old.

I mean ... MB is also sponsoring several bills I asked him to sponsor  ... its called legislating. I expect the large bulk of bills to get bipartisan support. Thats good for atlasia. Whats so bad about working together? This is like the same bs where people criticize the south for agreeing and unanimously passing good stuff rather than engaging in petty squabbling. The house is passing an Alancia bill in the lame duck mere days after it hit the floor. If DRRA 18 and 19 pass (which have been threatened with defeat despite no contrary debate from bad faith legislators) like 10 bills in the queue or on the floor become obsolete (which again the labor senators told me to do since they claimed the omnibus bills were too long.) So you are basically saying only do a few bills and those bills cant even be long or detailed... thats piss poor governance. I've been promising some of these bills to people for like a year or more. The military bill was something i was working with Neveragain on. The telecom bill was discussed with Ninja last summer. Doof has wanted NOAA funding restored since we found the discrepancy.

The idea that yall cant do your own thing and also debate legitimate bills on the floor is selling yourself short ... especially since our bills are literally sitting in the queue where opposition parties can read them in advance, find stuff they don't like, and have amendments prepared before they even hit the floor. Thats how you manage bills. Why do I have to explain floor management... Pericles and Wulfric have conquered large queues with ease and know this already.

That legitimately good and well written bills are viewed as a problem is stupid. Ratifying partisanship into the Rules is corrupt, foolish, dunderheaded, bad governance. As was previously discussed in the legislative thread ... labor (including the President elect) has flippin asked for several of these bills. Now when we are signaling an opportunity to work together... what you table a bill then immediately reintroduce it by someone with the "correct" party label?

Read the bills in the queue,  have objections ready, write your own bills... aka do your job. Dont whine about others doing theirs. That doing something for a 6th time is now somehow bad when the first 5 times it was fine, is inconsistent. Or basically, if I can be bothered to spend hours and hours of my own, limited free time writing bills the least yall can do is read, debate, and vote on them.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Why is everyone blaming fhtagn or claiming she coordinated something? I wrote the bulk of the damn bills (which are 100% legitimate) and asked people to sponsor because im not a Senator anymore. If i were Id dump them all myself because that's how my bill writing works ... binge writing. This is like the 5-6 time weve had preloaded queues and every other time doing so was productive and praised by everyone. We are approaching the 1 year anniversary of the 13th session where whe averaged just shy of 1 bill passed per day the entire session... 59 things jointly passed in 2 months. At this point weve had 2/3rds of house members (including lefty coalition members) preload multiple bills ... that guarantees content. Not to mention the rule of 2 and Presidential slots still exist. I mean, multiple Griff voters were talking about how the TNF bills they planned on resurrecting the upcoming session... this isn't any different except the bulk of these bills arent 5 years old.

I mean ... MB is also sponsoring several bills I asked him to sponsor  ... its called legislating. I expect the large bulk of bills to get bipartisan support. Thats good for atlasia. Whats so bad about working together? This is like the same bs where people criticize the south for agreeing and unanimously passing good stuff rather than engaging in petty squabbling. The house is passing an Alancia bill in the lame duck mere days after it hit the floor. If DRRA 18 and 19 pass (which have been threatened with defeat despite no contrary debate from bad faith legislators) like 10 bills in the queue or on the floor become obsolete (which again the labor senators told me to do since they claimed the omnibus bills were too long.) So you are basically saying only do a few bills and those bills cant even be long or detailed... thats piss poor governance. I've been promising some of these bills to people for like a year or more. The military bill was something i was working with Neveragain on. The telecom bill was discussed with Ninja last summer. Doof has wanted NOAA funding restored since we found the discrepancy.

The idea that yall cant do your own thing and also debate legitimate bills on the floor is selling yourself short ... especially since our bills are literally sitting in the queue where opposition parties can read them in advance, find stuff they don't like, and have amendments prepared before they even hit the floor. Thats how you manage bills. Why do I have to explain floor management... Pericles and Wulfric have conquered large queues with ease and know this already.

That legitimately good and well written bills are viewed as a problem is stupid. Ratifying partisanship into the Rules is corrupt, foolish, dunderheaded, bad governance. As was previously discussed in the legislative thread ... labor (including the President elect) has flippin asked for several of these bills. Now when we are signaling an opportunity to work together... what you table a bill then immediately reintroduce it by someone with the "correct" party label?

Read the bills in the queue, have objections ready, write your own bills... aka do your job. Dont whine about others doing theirs. That doing something for a 6th time is now somehow bad when the first 5 times it was fine, is inconsistent. Or basically, if I can be bothered to spend hours and hours of my own, limited free time writing bills the least yall can do is read, debate, and vote on them.

hear, hear!

doubly so on the bold

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Fhtagn is my queen! Keep fighting the good fight!

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

You're all wrong.

Partisanship and obstruction makes the game more fun.

Ah, so that's why you voted for both Adam and fhtagn.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Another point on the timing... the "bill dump" started a month ago. MB introduced 11 bills and Fhtagn 7 over like a 4 day period in late May early June. 7 more bills were posted over like a 3 day period prior to the election  in late june,  and then 5 more MB bills during the election. That's 30 bills in less than a month... no one complained and almost all have already reached the floor and passed on.

LT dumped 5 bills at the same time in march ... guess what every single one passed ... its an effective strategy for legislating. If the bills already exist it makes more sense to publish them and be ready. Especially when no one else bothers to write. 95% of atlasians seem to view this as just a fantasy election game where the point is to campaign and vote then do nothing until the next campaign season. Some of us care more about the fantasy government aspect and want to actually push policy rather than platitudes.

Again, I should not have to explain floor management strategy to the floor managers ... yall have presidential slots, a 2 bill per person limit, a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and jimmy just greatly expanded the number of slots in the house for Senate passed legislation... do the math.

[JGibson]

There is only one reason these bills are being introduced right now - fhtagn wants to make sure as few Labor policies as possible ever make the floor over the next four months by flooding the queue with far right wing policies that are guaranteed to fail. The goal is not to pass anything - it's to make sure the incoming majorities have no opportunity to pass any policies they wish to.

You're so right on, Sestak.