Fox News: Black people who have been proven innocent by DNA still=guilty

[Badger]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

So, you believe when Democrats and Progressive Independents see toddler age children separated from their parents, in filth and squalor, sleeping on cement floors in essentially dog kennels, what first comes to our mind is not being shocked and the desire to help those children out of a sense of basic humanity and conscience, but rather then thinking "hey, I see a big potential voter registration drive!"

Look up the word projection

[Badger]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

Comparing Immigration Laws to the 1940s Internment laws is hilariously a bad comparison.

The 1940s Internment laws mandated that people who were already Citizens, Permanent Residents, Visa Holders be Arrested based on their ethnicity. That is clearly unconstitutional, immoral etc.  On the other hand every nation has the right to decide whom or whom not to allow into their nations and every nation has laws doing so. If you think those are equivalent then you are the one being ignorant.

Again, there is nothing illegal about being an asylum Seeker. Many asylum-seekers are only in the most technical sense illegal, as in committing a misdemeanor offense, by seeking Asylum at a non-designated Port of Entry. Of course this is specifically after the Trump Administration has shut down many ports of entry for Asylum Seekers. A stroke of a pen play Ordinary legal Asylum Seekers as illegal immigrants that you and yours can glow Beauty on route border security regarding. We also can decide to release these people after an initial screening two family members or other guest homes throughout the country. With social worker monetary under the Obama Administration a fraction of the cost of internment over 99% of the Seekers showed up for their hearing.

So you have a president that has been extremely upfront about all the raping that immigrants do oh, about how we don't want any more of sh**thole countries not sending us their best, has explicitly shut off most legal ports of Entry Southern border, and has just has explicitly decided to trumpet these views of toddler children in squalor and screaming in panic after being separated from their parents in order to deter other legal, legal legal legal legal legal! Asylum-seekers.

You are the one that is hilariously naive. Like most concerns I don't think you can put yourself in the shoes of other people very well. You can't even begin to imagine what it is you're going through, not to mention you write off this completely unnecessary human rights atrocity and somehow enforcing the law went, as I have thoroughly explained, is nothing of the sort.

Develop a quarter ounce of empathy, and then we will talk.

[Bojack Horseman]

Only a privileged white Democrat from the suburbs who knows nothing about African-Americans would claim conservatives are more racist now than when it was basically legal to kill black people 55 years ago. Please log off, renounce your citizenship, and move to Antarctica

Racism got very very subtle after the 60s, but then having a black president for 8 years scared the crap out of white people so badly that racism is becoming less hidden and less taboo. Hence why the Nazis are back and white supremacist hate groups have doubled and alt-right sites that had 10,000 members 15 years ago now have 10 million.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Only a privileged white Democrat from the suburbs who knows nothing about African-Americans would claim conservatives are more racist now than when it was basically legal to kill black people 55 years ago. Please log off, renounce your citizenship, and move to Antarctica

Racism got very very subtle after the 60s, but then having a black president for 8 years scared the crap out of white people so badly that racism is becoming less hidden and less taboo. Hence why the Nazis are back and white supremacist hate groups have doubled and alt-right sites that had 10,000 members 15 years ago now have 10 million.

America didn't become more racist because we had a black President. The racism was always there.

[Bojack Horseman]

Only a privileged white Democrat from the suburbs who knows nothing about African-Americans would claim conservatives are more racist now than when it was basically legal to kill black people 55 years ago. Please log off, renounce your citizenship, and move to Antarctica

Racism got very very subtle after the 60s, but then having a black president for 8 years scared the crap out of white people so badly that racism is becoming less hidden and less taboo. Hence why the Nazis are back and white supremacist hate groups have doubled and alt-right sites that had 10,000 members 15 years ago now have 10 million.

America didn't become more racist because we had a black President. The racism was always there.

That’s true, but you can’t discount all the white people who were fairly normal, accepting, and open-minded people who turned into foaming-at-the-mouth, raging, pissed off “Republican patriots” at Tea Party rallies calling Obama a Kenyan and a monkey, many of whom voted for Kerry, Gore, and Clinton.

One such person was my local newspaper’s opinion columnist. He was actually pretty liberal right up until January 20, 2009. That was the day he became an angry, race-baiting, xenophobic, homophobic religious bigot who said on-record that blacks deserve to be targeted and shot by police for no reason, that all Muslims whether US citizens or not should be rounded up and deported to the Middle East, that all gay men are pedophiles and if you legalize gay marriage all their children will be molested and raped daily, and that not only should women have no choice, but she should go back to being the property of her husband.

[Gustaf]

It's not really debatable that people are less racist now than they were then and that this goes for supporters of both parties. Ironically, the issue itself suggests this - the Central Park Five ad was pretty standard race-baiting at its time and would be more controversial today.

What is different is largely salience. We live in a culture war era where people prioritize these sorts of issues and strongly identify politically with them. It's not as if say WV voters are more racist now than in the 90s (they're probably less racist if anything) but they vote based on their views about this. There is also less media gatekeeping, so we get to see more unfiltered folk opinion than we used to and that is always a little terrifying.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

The error you're making here is assuming that there is some specific demography of America that is sacrosanct, or that only a certain amount of change is permissible. *Lots* of demographic change is affected through law already. Do we only start the "manipulating demography" charge from here forward?

[Fuzzy Bear]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

The error you're making here is assuming that there is some specific demography of America that is sacrosanct, or that only a certain amount of change is permissible. *Lots* of demographic change is affected through law already. Do we only start the "manipulating demography" charge from here forward?

I could care less about things such as change in race or ethnicity in America, in and of itself. 

What I am concerned about is when we allow other folks from other lands into America who are not amenable to certain things that make America not only a great nation, but a good nation as well.  I speak of (A) our system of enumerated Constitutional Rights and Individual Liberties, (B) our guaranty of a republican form of government, and (C) a commitment to the Rule of Law.  Not everyone who comes here is in favor of that.  We can talk about "diversity" all day long, and stylistic diversity is a cool thing, but when we have diversity of thought when it comes to individual liberties, a republican form of government, and the Rule of Law, then we have something different that undermines the Freedoms and Liberties we take for granted.

[Bidenworth2020]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

The error you're making here is assuming that there is some specific demography of America that is sacrosanct, or that only a certain amount of change is permissible. *Lots* of demographic change is affected through law already. Do we only start the "manipulating demography" charge from here forward?

I could care less about things such as change in race or ethnicity in America, in and of itself. 

What I am concerned about is when we allow other folks from other lands into America who are not amenable to certain things that make America not only a great nation, but a good nation as well.  I speak of (A) our system of enumerated Constitutional Rights and Individual Liberties, (B) our guaranty of a republican form of government, and (C) a commitment to the Rule of Law.  Not everyone who comes here is in favor of that.  We can talk about "diversity" all day long, and stylistic diversity is a cool thing, but when we have diversity of thought when it comes to individual liberties, a republican form of government, and the Rule of Law, then we have something different that undermines the Freedoms and Liberties we take for granted.

I would argue most of the time, immigrants flee other countries to come not in spite of but because of our rule of law and a strong constitution. There is a reason people come from all around the world to live here.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

The error you're making here is assuming that there is some specific demography of America that is sacrosanct, or that only a certain amount of change is permissible. *Lots* of demographic change is affected through law already. Do we only start the "manipulating demography" charge from here forward?

I could care less about things such as change in race or ethnicity in America, in and of itself. 

What I am concerned about is when we allow other folks from other lands into America who are not amenable to certain things that make America not only a great nation, but a good nation as well.  I speak of (A) our system of enumerated Constitutional Rights and Individual Liberties, (B) our guaranty of a republican form of government, and (C) a commitment to the Rule of Law.  Not everyone who comes here is in favor of that.  We can talk about "diversity" all day long, and stylistic diversity is a cool thing, but when we have diversity of thought when it comes to individual liberties, a republican form of government, and the Rule of Law, then we have something different that undermines the Freedoms and Liberties we take for granted.

I would argue most of the time, immigrants flee other countries to come not in spite of but because of our rule of law and a strong constitution. There is a reason people come from all around the world to live here.

I like to think that, and I hope that proves to be true.  But if we want it to be true, our immigration policies and the way we assimilate immigrants needs to dial back its emphasis on "diversity" (E Pluribus) and focus more on "unity" (Unum).  This sounds corny, but our form of self-government is, in terms of history, still quite the experiment. 

[Slander and/or Libel]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

The error you're making here is assuming that there is some specific demography of America that is sacrosanct, or that only a certain amount of change is permissible. *Lots* of demographic change is affected through law already. Do we only start the "manipulating demography" charge from here forward?

I could care less about things such as change in race or ethnicity in America, in and of itself. 

What I am concerned about is when we allow other folks from other lands into America who are not amenable to certain things that make America not only a great nation, but a good nation as well.  I speak of (A) our system of enumerated Constitutional Rights and Individual Liberties, (B) our guaranty of a republican form of government, and (C) a commitment to the Rule of Law.  Not everyone who comes here is in favor of that.  We can talk about "diversity" all day long, and stylistic diversity is a cool thing, but when we have diversity of thought when it comes to individual liberties, a republican form of government, and the Rule of Law, then we have something different that undermines the Freedoms and Liberties we take for granted.

Not everyone who *is* here supports those things. Not everyone who *is the president of this country* supports those things.

[Badger]

I've tried to be polite and respectful during my five years on this forum but several people in this thread are not interested in having a rational discussion.  If you think that more Republicans are racist in 2019 than in 1964 I can't possibly have a worthwhile discussion with you.

Only because you obstinately refuse to see the reality of your own party.

How can either party possibly be more racist than they were 55 years ago?  I'm not denying that the majority of racists vote Republican in 2019.  I'm just saying that the percentage of racists has got to be significantly smaller today than it was back then.







I have two more images but they won't load.  One shows how close to 90% of Americans support Brown v. Board of Education and another showing that the overwhelming majority of Americans are open to voting for a black presidential candidate.  Both of these polls are over 20 years old.

The parties are less "segregationist".  No one defends segregation any more; it is a non-starter.

The GOP does, sadly, advocate a number of politics that blacks view as "survival issues".  In this category are things such as Voter ID laws, redistricting and gerrymandering, felony voting rights, mass incarceration and inequality in sentencing, and a number of issues in this vein.  There are many nuances to all of these issues, but today's GOP opposes the positions on these issues that blacks support almost reflexively, and they often do so knowing that at least some of these issues will affect the outcome of elections in key states.

Republicans could become more respected by simply being fair.  By dropping their opposition to voting rights, civil rights restoration, fair districts, overcriminalization, and such.  They could repudiate the spirit of the video here.  Trump, himself, could bring about a great deal of good and good will if he were willing to acknowledge some of these issues of basic fairness and lead the GOP to reposition itself.  Trump doesn't need to apologize for the 1993 ad he funded.  But he DOES need to acknowledge and publicly accept the fact that the Central Park 5 defendants have had their convictions thrown out, and accept that as a just verdict.  Sadly, I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, fuzzy, it's not a matter of the Republicans either coming to their senses or aggressively standing up to racism both in their party and in the country. Things you describe are part of it active attempt to, as was repeatedly stated during the 2016 campaign, double down on the white vote. The GOP sees its only way to win is doing so, and likewise are attempting every measure possible to decrease the non white share of the electorate.

I'll agree with the latter part, and that's unfortunate.  But the flip side of that coin is the refusal of the Democratic Party to actually enforce our immigration laws.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

Let's not kid ourselves.  The GOP certainly wants to keep the electorate white.  The Democrats want to increase the non-white portion of the electorate.  I don't have a problem with the latter if we're talking about Voting Rights enforcement, ending Voter ID laws as we know it, restoring voting rights to former felons, and proposals of this nature.  I'm open to different proposals on immigration provided that such proposals involve effective enforcement of our borders as part of a greater deal that would include, at a minimum, citizenship for the DREAMERS and for all aliens who have served in the military, as well as their families.  (No military veteran with an Honorable Discharge should ever be deported, period.)  But the motivation for Open Borders on the part of Democrats is also with an eye to the electorate and to electoral hegemony.  I don't condone the games the GOP plays with minority voting rights.  But when it comes to border security and motivation for not enforcing the law, the Democrats wish to pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining.  I'm willing to listen to compromises if people will get real about THAT aspect of the immigration issue and renounce it.

If only the Democrats had and enforced internment laws in the 1940s. Am I right?

What I'm saying is that both parties are motivated to manipulate the demography of America, rather than just let things happen under the law.

I'm not defending this.  This is, indeed, a dangerous place for any nation.  But please, don't tell me that it's only the GOP that is so motivated.  Don't tell me that.  If the GOP view the illegal immigrants as "The Caravan" or "The Horde", Democrats view those crashing our border as a form of "Democrats Abroad".  Neither attitude is good for America because both attitudes place party over country.

The error you're making here is assuming that there is some specific demography of America that is sacrosanct, or that only a certain amount of change is permissible. *Lots* of demographic change is affected through law already. Do we only start the "manipulating demography" charge from here forward?

I could care less about things such as change in race or ethnicity in America, in and of itself. 

What I am concerned about is when we allow other folks from other lands into America who are not amenable to certain things that make America not only a great nation, but a good nation as well.  I speak of (A) our system of enumerated Constitutional Rights and Individual Liberties, (B) our guaranty of a republican form of government, and (C) a commitment to the Rule of Law.  Not everyone who comes here is in favor of that.  We can talk about "diversity" all day long, and stylistic diversity is a cool thing, but when we have diversity of thought when it comes to individual liberties, a republican form of government, and the Rule of Law, then we have something different that undermines the Freedoms and Liberties we take for granted.

Fuzzy, your own views are shredded by our actual historical experience. The vast overwhelming share of immigrants through the 19th and early 20th centuries came from countries with no history of democracy or religious pluralism, or any of the other things you mentioned. Polish immigrants? Italian immigrants? Other East Europeans? Jewish immigrants from just about anywhere in Europe? Even the Irish immigrants came from a culture built on they're being marginalized from the psuedo democratic system England had at the time, not to mention outright religious sectarianism as bad as the Middle East today sees ( albeit with muskets and dynamite rather than much more deadly AK-47s and C4).

The exact same misplaced arguments were made against these newcomers supposedly not being able to assimilate due to these exact same reasons, which at Heart of course were based simply on nativism and xenophobia, rather than reason and experience. Because the latter two clearly prove these arguments wrong.

Heck, most of these Mexican and Central American immigrants have more experience with democracy than 19th and early 20th century American immigrants from Europe ever did! Most of Central and South America have been functioning democracies since the early to mid 80s. Oh, certainly they have their share of corruption and, particularly lately rampant violence thanks to the rise of the narcos, which of course is funded entirely by our own American Addiction. But compared to the average polish for Italian Peasant stepping off the boat on the Ellis Island most of these modern immigrants are worlds ahead ahead of them in terms of functioning with voting, pluralism, and democracy.

More to the point, our country is great at assimilating people. We're just not so great at accepting them in the first place. Better than Europe, but not as good as Americans should be, or more importantly can be.