1st DEM Debate Thread: June 26 & 27, Miami, MSNBC & NBC & Telemundo (9-11pm)

[Pyro]

Everyone deserves healthcare.

It was Buttigieg's best line. "Our country is healthier when everybody is healthier."

[Hollywood]

The Democratic Party has turned into a complete joke.  You can tell Biden doesn't even believe half the stuff that he's saying.  Democrats have gone so FAR LEFT, that it is uncontrollable.  The ideas proposed last night were absurd.  You can't win a general election with those ideals, American's arnt having it.

Yet putting children in "detention centers" without sanitary conditions is within the realm of acceptability to win a general election? Get outta here.

Of course, we should provide them sanitary conditions.  However, we should probably just send them back to Mexico where they belong instead of listening to their BS asylum claim.  

[Ilhan Apologist]

The Democratic Party has turned into a complete joke.  You can tell Biden doesn't even believe half the stuff that he's saying.  Democrats have gone so FAR LEFT, that it is uncontrollable.  The ideas proposed last night were absurd.  You can't win a general election with those ideals, American's arnt having it.

Yet putting children in "detention centers" without sanitary conditions is within the realm of acceptability to win a general election? Get outta here.

Sadly, it is. Because racism.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/yang2020mass/status/1144522463474278400?s=21

He wanted to get in first, but apparently Gillibrand is more important. Seriously, screw NBC, screw joke candidates who can’t differentiate themselves and just take up speaking time. It’s outrageous

It would be nice if we could get a fair debate and not just a Warren, Biden, Sanders show.  Give the minor candidates time to speak.

Yes. They qualified for the same debate and should get equal time

Agreed.  I'm not sure in practice how giving exactly equal time would work, but certainly steps can be taken to give Sanders and Harris every other question.

Run it like chess. Take the available total time (after accounting for any non-discretionary time), split it up between then candidates evenly, and they each get a timer to see how much they have left. When they run out, their mike mutes.  If they want to spend it on off-topic monologues or in direct question or rebuttals is up to them. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, too. Mainstream media run "debates" are inevitably circuses, I assume by intent. Given the constraints they operate with, I thought the candidates all did a decent job at hitting a balance between the obligatory performance and trying to actually communicate.

[Rookie Yinzer]

The Democratic Party has turned into a complete joke.  You can tell Biden doesn't even believe half the stuff that he's saying.  Democrats have gone so FAR LEFT, that it is uncontrollable.  The ideas proposed last night were absurd.  You can't win a general election with those ideals, American's arnt having it.

But they will have racism, intellectual dishonesty, treason, and demagoguery. Says a lot about this country.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

Did even the moderate candidates raise there hand on the question of giving free health care to illegals? WHY?! That gives Trump LIFE in this race.... life he doesn’t need

Give me a freaking break. Republicans are free to run as far to the right as they want but Democrats can't say we should give free healthcare to undocumented people, which is something that almost every other country already does? people like you are part of the problem.

[Ilhan Apologist]

Did even the moderate candidates raise there hand on the question of giving free health care to illegals? WHY?! That gives Trump LIFE in this race.... life he doesn’t need

Give me a freaking break. Republicans are free to run as far to the right as they want but Democrats can't say we should give free healthcare to undocumented people, which is something that almost every other country already does? people like you are part of the problem.

Do they?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Did even the moderate candidates raise there hand on the question of giving free health care to illegals? WHY?! That gives Trump LIFE in this race.... life he doesn’t need

Give me a freaking break. Republicans are free to run as far to the right as they want but Democrats can't say we should give free healthcare to undocumented people, which is something that almost every other country already does? people like you are part of the problem.

^^^^THIS^^^^

[Famous Mortimer]

lol other countries do not give free healthcare to illegal immigrants

and the Republicans "far right" turn consists of promoting Canadian style merit based immigration laws.

[henster]

NBC muting Yang's mic spin is BS, you could hear him coughing several times during the debate. He was just too timid to raise his voice and fight for time and he's a single issue candidate who didn't have anything to add on most topics anyways.

[Possiblymaybe]

People saying Harris performed poorly are very out of touch.

I have to disagree. I have no intention in supporting Harris in the primary (unless somehow it ended up just her vs Biden I guess, ugh) but I am capable of seeing when a candidate is making a strong impression. And she did. She also is perhaps due now for someone to hit her (next debate? One after?) about her own shoddy record which didn't happen this time. If Biden doesn't tired old man the next debate or two again, he might get to that. Some of the also rans might give it a try. But her weaknesses were not put on display during this debate, which did her a big favor and let her focus fire on threat to her nomination #1, Joey B.

All their records should be scrutinised but the idea that the guy who wrote the crime bill has the moral high ground to attack prosecutors who worked within the flawed system he and men of his generation implemented is really flawed.
Look, Cory Booker was just talking about how we need to discuss Bidens role in the bill the jetspeeded mass incarceration this morning.Castro and Booker will try to do the same as Kamala as soon as they get on a stage with him.  

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/grynbaum/status/1144681005950865408

[Blue3]

Looking at last night's debate only, and ranking those 10:

1. Bernie Sanders - he slipped on a few issues, like gun control, didn't always pivot well, but I think he did well enough to keep his support, and it helps that he's no longer the most radical on the stage

2. Kamala Harris - some of her quips were clearly rehearsed, but she did come across as authentic, and she destroyed Biden. She did much better than I thought, and I think she overall won the debate. I just continue to worry about her criminal justice record.

3. Kirsten Gillibrand - she was annoying for the first half-hour or so, but reigned herself in after Kamala's "food fight" comment. I think she did very well.

...

4. Andrew Yang - great ideas and thoughtfulness and ability to articulate the details, but he's terrible at communicating any of this in the debate format.

5. Pete Buttigieg - poor answer on his crisis this week. Very disappointing overall. But he line on Christianity and hypocrisy was awesome!

...

6. Eric Swallwell - had a couple good points, especially the early one on Biden, but he's not ready (but better than Delaney or Ryan)

7. Michael Bennett - I think he made a good point... once? Should drop-out.

...

8. Joe Biden - destroyed by Kamala Harris on busing, by Bernie Sanders on Iraq, he will probably lose the most support.

9. Marianne Williamson - yeah... no. She had a couple good points, at least.

10. John Hickenlooper - drop-out and go back to the 1950's, visit your friend McCarthy

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Did even the moderate candidates raise there hand on the question of giving free health care to illegals? WHY?! That gives Trump LIFE in this race.... life he doesn’t need

Give me a freaking break. Republicans are free to run as far to the right as they want but Democrats can't say we should give free healthcare to undocumented people, which is something that almost every other country already does? people like you are part of the problem.

I agree with this point but good god is it such a lazy argument and just a mechanism for avoiding introspection.

Part of the reason why it's such an absurdly bad and uncreative argument is because 80% of the time it's leveled against people actually who do criticize Republicans. I'm not really sure what it's supposed to do other than distract people.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Trump gave Clinton a pass to run as a progressive (I don't care what anyone else says, she ran the most left wing campaign of any Democratic nominee in decades) and that will apply to the 2020 too. Anyway, Americans don't actually care about policy intricacies, and converting undecideds matters less than ever. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, but this election will be about turnout, and as long as our nominee can excite the Democratic base enough to overwhelm the Republican base (which will be enthused as well, because they always are)  like in 2018, they can win.

In reference to undocumented immigrants benefiting from public health care, I think the candidates (even Biden) defended themselves pretty well on that. It's one of those issues that is beneficial to society as a whole, even as it may not be tangible. It's a lot like providing public housing for homeless people. That actually saves tax dollars and keeps insurance premiums lower and hospitals and prisons less full. The only reason not to commit to policies like that is because of peoples' natural knee-jerk "why can't I get a free handout, yet they do!" instincts. It's hard to fight against, but is inherently irrational when contrasted with the objective reality of the situation.

[eric82oslo]

Trump gave Clinton a pass to run as a progressive (I don't care what anyone else says, she ran the most left wing campaign of any Democratic nominee in decades) and that will apply to the 2020 too. Anyway, Americans don't actually care about policy intricacies, and converting undecideds matters less than ever. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, but this election will be about turnout, and as long as our nominee can excite the Democratic base enough to overwhelm the Republican base (which will be enthused as well, because they always are)  like in 2018, they can win.

In reference to undocumented immigrants benefiting from public health care, I think the candidates (even Biden) defended themselves pretty well on that. It's one of those issues that is beneficial to society as a whole, even as it may not be tangible. It's a lot like providing public housing for homeless people. That actually saves tax dollars and keeps insurance premiums lower and hospitals and prisons less full. The only reason not to commit to policies like that is because of peoples' natural knee-jerk "why can't I get a free handout, yet they do!" instincts. It's hard to fight against, but is inherently irrational when contrasted with the objective reality of the situation.

You sound like a Yang voter. You argue just like he does on these issues.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Trump gave Clinton a pass to run as a progressive (I don't care what anyone else says, she ran the most left wing campaign of any Democratic nominee in decades) and that will apply to the 2020 too. Anyway, Americans don't actually care about policy intricacies, and converting undecideds matters less than ever. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, but this election will be about turnout, and as long as our nominee can excite the Democratic base enough to overwhelm the Republican base (which will be enthused as well, because they always are)  like in 2018, they can win.

In reference to undocumented immigrants benefiting from public health care, I think the candidates (even Biden) defended themselves pretty well on that. It's one of those issues that is beneficial to society as a whole, even as it may not be tangible. It's a lot like providing public housing for homeless people. That actually saves tax dollars and keeps insurance premiums lower and hospitals and prisons less full. The only reason not to commit to policies like that is because of peoples' natural knee-jerk "why can't I get a free handout, yet they do!" instincts. It's hard to fight against, but is inherently irrational when contrasted with the objective reality of the situation.

You sound like a Yang voter. You argue just like he does on these issues.

I may disappoint you by saying that I wasn't much of a fan of Yang's performance last night, at a superficial level, but I did appreciate his very wonky, straight to the point responses for the little time he had. I'll definitely give him that.

[NOVA Green]

Did even the moderate candidates raise there hand on the question of giving free health care to illegals? WHY?! That gives Trump LIFE in this race.... life he doesn’t need

Reality is that Emergency Rooms will treat any patient that comes in to stabilize the individual regardless of access to medical insurance let alone legal residency status within the US, which is as it should be.

Many people, including myself, have gone to the Emergency Room because we didn't have medical insurance and/or we put off visits to Doctors because we couldn't afford the co-pays and it resulted in a greater level of treatment as a result.

So in fact, regardless of legal residency status there is a huge hidden existing medical cost structure simply because "poor folks" w/o the ability to pay go to the ER as relatively healthy younger adults, families with young children or older Seniors, etc....

The whole argument about "Illegal Immigrants are sucking up precious Health Care $$$ from legal residents and American citizens" is a bit bunk IMHO and feeds the Trump Agenda more so than anything else.

Maybe I'm totally off base here, but I suspect that this would be the logical (sane) explanation for these candidates raising their hands on this question.

Do we pay more on ER visits for when working-families (including some who might be out of legal resident status) or fund cheaper options such as access to Free Community Clinics and free medication that would screen out a good chunk of folks living on the financial margins under our current health care system?

The only other option would be violating the Hippocratic Oath, which quite frankly a direction that I do not believe that you would advocate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

[eric82oslo]

Trump gave Clinton a pass to run as a progressive (I don't care what anyone else says, she ran the most left wing campaign of any Democratic nominee in decades) and that will apply to the 2020 too. Anyway, Americans don't actually care about policy intricacies, and converting undecideds matters less than ever. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, but this election will be about turnout, and as long as our nominee can excite the Democratic base enough to overwhelm the Republican base (which will be enthused as well, because they always are)  like in 2018, they can win.

In reference to undocumented immigrants benefiting from public health care, I think the candidates (even Biden) defended themselves pretty well on that. It's one of those issues that is beneficial to society as a whole, even as it may not be tangible. It's a lot like providing public housing for homeless people. That actually saves tax dollars and keeps insurance premiums lower and hospitals and prisons less full. The only reason not to commit to policies like that is because of peoples' natural knee-jerk "why can't I get a free handout, yet they do!" instincts. It's hard to fight against, but is inherently irrational when contrasted with the objective reality of the situation.

You sound like a Yang voter. You argue just like he does on these issues.

I may disappoint you by saying that I wasn't much of a fan of Yang's performance last night, at a superficial level, but I did appreciate his very wonky, straight to the point responses for the little time he had. I'll definitely give him that.

I wasn't much of a fan either, but he got to talk only 594 words, by far the lowest amount of all candidates. The one with the second lowest amount, Jay Inslee, still got to talk 875 words. Not to mention Biden, who managed to spit out 2,475 completely unneccesary words.

[NOVA Green]

Trump gave Clinton a pass to run as a progressive (I don't care what anyone else says, she ran the most left wing campaign of any Democratic nominee in decades) and that will apply to the 2020 too. Anyway, Americans don't actually care about policy intricacies, and converting undecideds matters less than ever. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, but this election will be about turnout, and as long as our nominee can excite the Democratic base enough to overwhelm the Republican base (which will be enthused as well, because they always are)  like in 2018, they can win.

In reference to undocumented immigrants benefiting from public health care, I think the candidates (even Biden) defended themselves pretty well on that. It's one of those issues that is beneficial to society as a whole, even as it may not be tangible. It's a lot like providing public housing for homeless people. That actually saves tax dollars and keeps insurance premiums lower and hospitals and prisons less full. The only reason not to commit to policies like that is because of peoples' natural knee-jerk "why can't I get a free handout, yet they do!" instincts. It's hard to fight against, but is inherently irrational when contrasted with the objective reality of the situation.

You sound like a Yang voter. You argue just like he does on these issues.

I may disappoint you by saying that I wasn't much of a fan of Yang's performance last night, at a superficial level, but I did appreciate his very wonky, straight to the point responses for the little time he had. I'll definitely give him that.

I wasn't much of a fan either, but he got to talk only 594 words, by far the lowest amount of all candidates. The one with the second lowest amount, Jay Inslee, still got to talk 875 words. Not to mention Biden, who managed to spit out 2,475 completely unneccesary words.

It did seem like he got short thrift on the clock, and actually me & my wife were really excited when he first got the mic bcs of his major policy item of a guaranteed national minimum income, to see what it was all about...

Regardless of polling numbers, he should have gotten a bit more airtime compared to others (Although nobody directly responded to his few slots, which gains additional airtime).

[Tender Branson]

Did even the moderate candidates raise there hand on the question of giving free health care to illegals? WHY?! That gives Trump LIFE in this race.... life he doesn’t need

Give me a freaking break. Republicans are free to run as far to the right as they want but Democrats can't say we should give free healthcare to undocumented people, which is something that almost every other country already does? people like you are part of the problem.

Do they?

lol other countries do not give free healthcare to illegal immigrants

That certainly depends on each country ...

I can say that Austria for example does provide health care to all people - (illegal) immigrants or not.

That is because 99.9% of people here are already covered by health insurance and if someone files for asylum, that person will also get health care right away. No matter if that person came legally (due to war etc. in their home countries) or illegally (by posing as teenagers or for economic reasons). For people who have fallen out of the "net" somehow, doctors and hospitals still provide free care if there's a medical issue.

[eric82oslo]

In Norway, only private health insurance exist, cause public hospitals are completely free for everyone. The only thing you have to pay for her, is cosmetic surgery, which usually is undertaken in private hospitals anyway. However, if there is a medical reason for the cosmetic surgery - like extreme obesity for instance - then even that is free.

[Tender Branson]

In Norway, only private health insurance exist, cause public hospitals are completely free for everyone. The only thing you have to pay for her, is cosmetic surgery, which usually is undertaken in private hospitals anyway. However, if there is a medical reason for the cosmetic surgery - like extreme obesity for instance - then even that is free.

That is basically the same situation as in Austria. We have a top-tier single-payer system, which is supplemented by a private health insurance system. Under the single-payer system, the basic, necessary medical things are covered and even such things as teeth and certain cosmetic surgeries if medically necessary (some of which you need pre-payment for, but you'll get 50% or so re-imbursed later on). By supplemental private insurance, all of this is covered and you get much quicker specialist appointments. Whereas you wait ca. a week or so for regular appointments with a specialist, you can get an appointment the same or next day for a specialist in the area accepting private insurance.

[Tender Branson]

Here is a chart of the best healthcare systems in Europe in 2018 with matrix scores:

https://healthpowerhouse.com/media/EHCI-2018/EHCI-2018-index-matrix-A3-sheet.pdf

Switzerland wins, followed by the Netherlands and Norway. Austria is 9th, out of 35 countries.

The "thumbs down" for Austria include "high abortion rates" (which is an unfounded, unscientific measure really. Austria does not collect abortion data, so the numbers circulating in the media are from anti-abortion nuts, who constantly estimate abortions here in the 40.000 range, when in fact neighbouring Germany and Switzerland only have a quarter of that rate. There is no sign that abortions in Austria are significantly higher than in the neighbouring countries.)

[Blue3]