Michigan : Trump loses by wide margins (user search)
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  Michigan : Trump loses by wide margins (search mode)
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Author Topic: Michigan : Trump loses by wide margins  (Read 4314 times)
pbrower2a
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« on: June 05, 2019, 09:13:50 AM »

More detail:



 

Every Democrat leads Trump in a binary choice in Michigan, but especially Biden and Sanders:



Impeachment?



Not yet.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/05/amash-presidential-bid-hurts-biden-michigan/1331256001/

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Amash is far better known in parts of Michigan, as he is from the Grand Rapids area. I see Michigan going to Biden about as it did for Obama in 2008 if one does not consider conservative or libertarian alternatives as choices in Michigan, or like it did for Reagan against Carter in 1980 with such a conservative or libertarian alternative. Obama in 2008 was much more impressive than Reagan in 1980 in Michigan.

Although matchups between Trump and Democrats other than Biden and Sanders give wider disparities than do those with lesser-known opponents, this may reflect name recognition better than anything else. Whoever wins the Democratic nomination for President will have  name recognition -- fast.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 09:26:29 AM »
« Edited: June 09, 2019, 09:13:38 PM by pbrower2a »



....................

Amash is far better known in parts of Michigan, as he is from the Grand Rapids area. I see Michigan going to Biden about as it did for Obama in 2008 if one does not consider conservative or libertarian alternatives as choices in Michigan, or like it did for Reagan against Carter in 1980 with such a conservative or libertarian alternative. Obama in 2008 was much more impressive than Reagan in 1980 in Michigan.

Although matchups between Trump and Democrats other than Biden and Sanders give wider disparities than do those with lesser-known opponents, this may reflect name recognition better than anything else. Whoever wins the Democratic nomination for President will have  name recognition -- fast.


Joe Biden won’t win MI by 16. Lol
At the worst Trump loses MI by a margin similar to Romney, but you are greatly overestimating Biden

In 2008, the American economy was tanking. People were afraid of another Great Depression. 2012 was a more normal election year than 2008.

It is not I who overestimates Biden; it is the poll. With Democrats in charge of most statewide offices, Trump will have to win Michigan the hard way, with promises made and promises kept -- with good results.

Trump won Michigan with a razor-thin margin. Far more can make Michigan go D than trend R. As elsewhere, the Millennial Generation is replacing older adults more R as those older adults 'graduate' into the Hereafter. That is about 1.5% of the electorate every year, largely at the upper half with people from the Silent (people now averaging in their early eighties) to the first wave of people of Generation X (people now in their middle-to-upper fifties), and with people who vote about 65-35 D supplanting people who vote about 55-45 R. That is about 2.4%. (This may in part reflect a growing Hispanic population, so I am not double-counting).

Michigan is not a particularly strong state for fundamentalist Christianity, which is the most reliable large demographic supporting Trump, which may explain why Trump is still doing fine in the Mountain and Deep South. Trump is a bad match for Michigan's political culture. Add to this -- Michigan is poor. Trump's showcase of economic policy is a tax cut serving economic elites with little bits of table scraps for 'the Help' -- and his tariffs are going to raise the cost of living of 'the Help'.

Michigan has a significant agricultural sector, and Trump's trade war is going to hurt farmers with lower crop prices and a higher cost in everything else. Did you see the Morning Consult polling of 50 states? Trump is doing far worse in the Great Plains states than most Republicans do. Those states rely more heavily upon agriculture as the basis of their economies, and that makes all the difference in the world. Southwestern Michigan is basically 'Iowa with lakes'.

Whether Biden wins Michigan by 8% or 18% will not matter.  It is the same 16 electoral votes either way. Trump is not going to win this state if he has disapproval in the 50s unless the left side of the political splinters in voting for President.  If you wish to suggest that there will be a significant split among left-center voters, then go ahead and make that assumption. Disapproval means giving up on some incumbent.  
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 10:56:49 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised by solid D victories in these states. Trump's approvals have been in the toilet in WI, MI and PA since like four months into his Presidency and these states all gave Democrats resounding victories in 2018.



Add on top of this that Trump won these states by less than a percent and it increasingly looks difficult  for Trump to win them again. Of course a 2016 redux where both candidates end up covered in mud and enough people say "to hell with it" and vote for Trump again is possible but it's probably much less likely than we all think.

One does not win a state in which one's disapproval is in the fifties. The only ways in which President Trump wins either of Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin again are

(1) tampering with the electoral process
(2) splintering of the center-to-left vote among multiple nominees, or
(3) the President solving his problems of credibility.

Demographics alone disfavor this President in these three states (as practically all others) over time, and the President can do nothing to offset the tendency of strongly-D Millennial voters supplanting older, somewhat-R voters over 55 as many of the latter die off or go senile.   

President Trump obviously cannot undo his gaffes, his clear support of economic elites over everyone else from Day 1, and the questions of personal integrity.

It is more likely, should Presidential disapproval nationwide be in the fifties, that some conservatives will prefer an alternative who better espouses free-market solutions and supports traditional 'family values' in deeds as well as words. Such people will not vote for the Democrat under any circumstances.

On (1), the "Deep State" is already in action. Democratic officials will be much more cooperative with the FBI this time should there be monkey business with Democrats' proprietary databases for getting out the vote.
On (2), it is up to Democrats to nominate someone presentable.
On (3), the President needs miracles.
 
Quote
Our reliance on the polls last time proved to be a massive disappointment and presented inaccuracies. Michigan definitely won't be voting for another TPP globalist.

People who do this sh**t are so annoying. "Polls were wrong once, therefore we can never trust polls again," without any understanding of why polling was wrong and whether and how that applies to current races. It's such lazy analysis.

I do not go to horse races, but long-shots occasionally win. That is part of the excitement of some bettors who think that they can handicap better than the supposed experts. In 2012 I did my own early handicapping of the Presidential race, and some of my cautious models made more for ease of calculation had certain key races (those in Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and Virginia) as roughly 50-50 propositions for both Romney and Obama. These were 'independent events' in that nothing that went on in another one of those states was likely to have an effect in another. At some point, as other states became irrelevant as sure wins for the President, one of those states would be enough to win a second term for Obama. They are different enough and distant enough from each other that winning or losing could be an 'independent event'. I ruled out states such as Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina because if Obama was winning any one of those states he was surely winning another of them (Colorado if Obama was winning Arizona,  Florida if he was winning Georgia, and Virginia if he was winning North Carolina).

If the chance of Romney winning one of those states was one half, then the chance of him winning overall was one half to the fifth power, or one in 32. That allows a simple calculation that the probabilistic chance of Obama winning was 31 chances in 32, or about 93%.

OK, so Missouri spiraled out of contention, but Obama's chances  got much higher (maybe 75% or so in Colorado and Virginia, maybe 60% in Ohio) while Florida remained a 50-50 proposition. At such a point, the chance of Romney winning was about one in 80. Toward October, Colorado and Virginia both became nearly sure things, little advantages for Obama in Ohio compounded, and Florida was still shaky, and giving a 10% chance for Romney in both Colorado and Virginia, about 30% in Ohio, and about 50% in Florida, my trusty calculator gave me about one chance in 740 for Romney. With independent events, the chances of everything going right is multiplicative, and multiplying small numbers together gets even smaller numbers... and bigger reciprocals.

Obviously we are nowhere near the 'time-running-out' phase of the 2020 Presidential election. We do not have a lame horse in the race, but we have one that now has inadequate speed for winning a race if it were being held today.  Maybe the political culture will change, and Trump's message will become more popular. But that is a big assumption. 

A long-shot won in 2016.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2019, 11:46:29 AM »

The Democrats' voter-drive database was hacked, so the electoral trend in Presidential elections may not be reliable.
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